Love my FJR but frustrated today

[dgaige]

I've been gaining a lot of knowledge from this forum and have enjoyed riding my 2004 FJR gen1. I recently heard a clicking noise and at 60,000 miles, after consulting these pages, decided to replace the CCT. Tight spaces, but that seemed to go pretty well, and I changed the plugs while I had the fairings off. After putting it back together I held my breath turneds teh key, fuel pump ran, guages reacted, and I pushed the starter. It started right up as usual and ran smooth but only for about 1.5 to 2 seconds and died. Seemed like it ran out of fuel. Wouldn't start after that. Additional review of the forum pages indicated it was probably flooded. Never had that problem before. Some other strange things were happening (emergency flashers going, headlights not on) So I took the plugs back out tried to check all the wiring to see if there was a ground problem, etc. Nothing found, but I disconnected the flasher switch and found it to be "sticky" so maybe I had accidently pushed it, and couldn't easily turn it off. I've started slowly putting it all back together,checking things as I go and cleaning up a few things (rear view mirrors, glove box, etc.), but several times I have continued to try to start, and I get a few cylinder firing but then none, I do get a smell of gasoline, so I am still leaning toward the flooding idea, but WOT doesn't seem to help. And I still don't get any headlights. Tried checking fuses today. I find the main fuses (all good) but can't even find a "fuse box" (as described in the owner's manual) containing a fuse for the lights. What am I missing? I did check carefully around the oil pump cover and don't find any "pinched" wires.

 

[Cycle]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[RossKean]

Note that the headlights don't come on with key, only after engine start.

Your starting issue is most likely due to flooding. Fresh battery and wide open throttle. 20 seconds or so and give it a rest to cool a couple of minutes before going again. A strong battery is critical for getting it going. Once it starts, it will be very rough until it is fully cleared and you have to baby the throttle a bit to keep it running.

If it isn't due to flooding, there is always a possibility that the cam timing is off by a tooth. This can happen when you do a CCT replacement if you are not careful. Did you take precautions?
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/lessons-learned-on-changing-the-cct.136891/

Starting difficulty and rough running can be symptoms of a slightly mis-timed cam. (Engine destruction is a symptom of a badly mis-timed cam)

Good luck

 

[torch]

You may need to get a little more aggressive clearing the flood. Lift the tank, disconnect the fuel pump, remove the sparkplugs, ground the sparkplug wires, hold it at wide open throttle and crank it over for a while. Just make sure there is no source of ignition anywhere in the area! Best done outdoors, if possible. Just in case...

 

[dgaige]

Note that the headlights don't come on with key, only after engine start.

Your starting issue is most likely due to flooding. Fresh battery and wide open throttle. 20 seconds or so and give it a rest to cool a couple of minutes before going again. A strong battery is critical for getting it going. Once it starts, it will be very rough until it is fully cleared and you have to baby the throttle a bit to keep it running.

If it isn't due to flooding, there is always a possibility that the cam timing is off by a tooth. This can happen when you do a CCT replacement if you are not careful. Did you take precautions?
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/lessons-learned-on-changing-the-cct.136891/

Starting difficulty and rough running can be symptoms of a slightly mis-timed cam. (Engine destruction is a symptom of a badly mis-timed cam)

Good luck

Okay, I had forgotten that about the headlights. So all electrical checks out okay. I unplugged the fuel pump and it started and ran till out of fuel. Plugged fuel pump back in and it started, but does not run well. During CCT change I did not wire tie the chain, as one of the threads indicated it was not necessary and the chain seemed pretty tight. Hard to imagine it slipped a tooth, but I'll check that next. Thanks for the help.

 

[RossKean]

Okay, I had forgotten that about the headlights. So all electrical checks out okay. I unplugged the fuel pump and it started and ran till out of fuel. Plugged fuel pump back in and it started, but does not run well. During CCT change I did not wire tie the chain, as one of the threads indicated it was not necessary and the chain seemed pretty tight. Hard to imagine it slipped a tooth, but I'll check that next. Thanks for the help.

A few instances of timing issues have been reported after replacing the CCT. Since you have ruled out possible flooding (common if the engine has been started and not allowed to warm up fully), timing becomes a significant possibility. AS always, suspect whatever was screwed with last.
Good luck!

 

[92XJXJWHEELER]

Okay, I had forgotten that about the headlights. So all electrical checks out okay. I unplugged the fuel pump and it started and ran till out of fuel. Plugged fuel pump back in and it started, but does not run well. During CCT change I did not wire tie the chain, as one of the threads indicated it was not necessary and the chain seemed pretty tight. Hard to imagine it slipped a tooth, but I'll check that next. Thanks for the help.

Hard to imagine Seems the most likely cause of you're problem.Hard to imagineit's not. Rarely a coincidence to have a new problem after a procedure and not have them related. That's been proven many many years ago. There's probably a reason every printed instruction on CCT replacement Says to tie it up to eliminate this issue. Always go re check and properly re do the last thing you touched. I know it's common sense and logic, but in case those things escaped you. Think about it.

 

[tschutter]

Man, I changed my CCT a month ago without issue (I ziptied the chain). But how do you check to see if your off by a tooth? Is there a procedure for that?
And if it's off, how do you get it back?
Sounds very challenging...

 

[RossKean]

Man, I changed my CCT a month ago without issue (I ziptied the chain). But how do you check to see if your off by a tooth? Is there a procedure for that?
And if it's off, how do you get it back?
Sounds very challenging...

Valve cover and timing cover have to come off. At TDC, reference lines on the outside of both the cam gears have to line up with the casing. Not much fun and difficult to see (even with a light and inspection mirror). Next time I have my valve cover off, I am transferring reference marks to the inside of the cam gears. Gears by themselves and gears in the casing for alignment check.



TDC with timing cover off

 

[dgaige]

I’m convinced I did get the chain off by a tooth. BIG mistake on my part. Now I don’t have the confidence or probably the skills to fix it. My favorite shop is moving and won’t be able to get me scheduled unti December some time.

 

[Constant Mesh]

In my opinion it's much easier to look at the punch mark on each camshaft to obtain the correct timing. The markings on the sprockets are too difficult to see, particularly the exhaust sprocket. You can easily see the punch marks and by using a piece of cereal box cardboard and scissors you can create a simple right triangle for checking the alignment between the punch marks and lines on the adjacent camshaft caps. There's a vertical line extending out on the end of each camshaft cap. Put one edge of the right triangle against the end of the cap with the triangle corner touching the vertical line on the cap. The triangle will extend out over the camshaft lobe showing the alignment between the punch mark and vertical line on the cap. You can easily see the misalignment from a single sprocket tooth mistake.

You'll have no difficulty seeing the punch marks on the camshafts. I wouldn't bother with the sprockets, particularly the exhaust sprocket.

 

[dgaige]

Interesting idea. Does seem easier than the mirror process on the exhaust side. I expect the only tooth alignment problem is between the crankshaft and the camshafts. I assume this would work for fixing that as well.

 

[RossKean]

In my opinion it's much easier to look at the punch mark on each camshaft to obtain the correct timing. The markings on the sprockets are too difficult to see, particularly the exhaust sprocket.

I wasn't sure if that would give you enough "resolution" to see if you were off by one tooth. The one time I messed up my cam timing during a valve adjustment, I did use those marks to get it back but did the best I could to verify with the sprocket marks.

Note to anyone doing anything that could mess up cam timing. Check and double check before replacing the valve cover and starting the engine. Rotate the engine by hand (rear wheel in 5th (or 6th) gear or with a ratchet on the crank) two full cycles and STOP immediately if you feel any resistance.

 

[Constant Mesh]

For a tensioner replacement a chain "jump" affects both the intake and exhaust camshafts since the jump occurs down below at the crankshaft. The timing relationship between the camshafts is unaffected. If you have a camshaft off the engine for a shim change and you make a timing mistake it's probably going to affect only one camshaft, not both.

You mention working with the spark plugs. The '04 has those "sometimes difficult to remove" plug caps and the large high voltage plug wires. The wires can have a poor connection with the caps particularly if one has been twisting and tugging a hard-to-remove cap.

 

[dgaige]

Wow, that was difficult, but I finally got pretty good at checking the position of the cams, even the exhaust. Valves checked and successfully adjusted, timing checked and adjusted, so now comes putting it back together.

 

[RossKean]

A tip on replacing the plug wires. A thin smear of dielectric grease on the rubber where it contacts the valve cover and on the tips of the rubber boot where it contacts the ceramic insulator will make future removal much easier. If you set the valves to the wide side of the specification, it will be a very long time before they will need adjustment again.
Good luck on startup and watch for coolant leaks at the coolant pipe and thermostat housing.

 

[dgaige]

Thanks for the tip, and the support. It’s been helpful

 

[dgaige]

Started it up yesterday, rough idle but sounded good. I planned to do TBS today. After carbtune was connected, started up and noticed “check engine” light on. Oil and coolant levels are okay. Is this common with TBS or is something else wrong? 2004 FJR gen 1.

 

[dgaige]

Also get very little vacuum showing on carbtune at idle. Sounds like valve timing could still be screwed up?

 

[RossKean]

What code from the "check engine"? Anything stored?

https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/diagnostic-codes.9612/