Pepperell
Well-known member
It's also coolant for your 'nads. If it's a hot day, I'll refill at half a tank.
loving your fuel pump
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3dogs
Well-known member
If you fill up with E85 your motorcycle won't even run because E85 is for use in Flex-Fuel vehicles only as it is 85% ethanol. The E10 you can buy at the pump has only 10% ethanol and should not make any difference.
Here is part of an article that I wrote for American Iron magazine that discusses the use of ethanol in motorcycles.
With MTBE potentially causing cancer the oil companies turned to other chemicals to improve octane, lower exhaust emissions and reduce the overall consumption of crude oil and our dependence on foreign counties to supply it. The use of ethanol or ethyl alcohol (sometime called grain alcohol) is becoming widely used across the country. Ethanol increases fuel octane and adds oxygen to fuel for lower emissions. No doubt that many of you have seen the labels on some gas pumps advising that the fuel contains 10 percent ethanol or “E10” on the pump. The use of ethanol is not a new idea—Henry Ford designed his first car, the 1896 Quadricycle (a bicycle with four wheels and an engine) to run on pure ethanol. In fact the Ford Model T could be fueled with gasoline, ethanol or a mixture of both.
Ethanol, sometimes called bioethanol is unlike petroleum in that it’s a form of renewable energy that can be grown instead of pumped out of the ground. The most common crop in the U.S. for producing liquid ethanol is corn but there are others including potatoes and sugar cane. If you have ever ridden through Nebraska or Iowa you know that lots of corn is planted, all with the potential of making its way into the gas tank between your knees. The rub is that if all that corn is used for making ethanol to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, food production will decrease causing shortages.
Separating fact from myth when it comes to the use of ethanol blended with gasoline is not easy to do. Currently there are two ethanol blends, E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and E85 (85% ethanol—15% gas). Gas stations that dispense E10 will become common in the near future. E85 is reserved for flex-fuel cars that are specifically designed to run on 85% ethanol. E85 can also be used on cars, or motorcycles that have had an E85 conversion kit installed. According the Harley-Davidson “We test, develop, and validate all engines to run with E-10 to ensure they will run on all fuels we expect our customers to encounter. The EFI system on current Harley-Davidson engines self-calibrates to accommodate the fuel being used. There may be a decrease in performance and economy when E-10 is in the tank, but it will be so slight that most riders will not notice a difference.” Parts used in carburetors since the mid 1980’s should be compatible with the use of ethanol. For vintage motorcycles, carburetor should be rebuilt using a modern rebuild kit. All carburetor rebuild kits sold at Harley-Davidson dealers are compatible with the use of ethanol.
Ethanol vs. Parts
Because gasoline has been around for such a long time, components in fuel systems that come in contact with it usually perform without problems. Fuel systems and ethanol is a different story. Ethanol blends can have a corrosive effect on metal parts used in your bike’s fuel system—especially vintage motorcycles. Refiners mix additives into E10 to help prevent corrosion. Also fuel tank sealants made in the U.S. should not have problems with corrosion. However there are materials used on older bikes that may not be compatible with ethanol including, zinc, brass, copper, lead-coated steel, cork, shellac, nylon, rubber gaskets and/or hoses. Newer rubber materials are designed for contact with ethanol. In fact most fuel hoses made after 1984, and marked with SAE J1527, are designed to withstand the use of ethanol.
Before ethanol was around, overlooking fuel hoses, carburetor floats, needle valves and rubber gaskets and/or parts used in carburetors did not cause problems. These items deteriorated slowly, requiring only periodic maintenance. Neglect them today and lack of maintenance can cause fuel leaks and the potential for a fire. Fuel systems that use carburetors should be inspected frequently and rubber parts that appear swollen or mushy should be replaced. Another issue with the use of ethanol is that over time fuel systems tend to accumulate deposits in crevices and corners including sediments, gums, rust, lacquer and other materials. Ethanol will act as a solvent and loosen these types of materials which will often plug up carburetor jets, air bleeds and other passageways.
Storing motorcycles for long periods of time, including over the winter months, can be an issue using E10. Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water vapor that forms inside of a fuel tank. The water will dilute the fuel and may cause separation of the ethanol/gasoline blend. Water mixed with gas causes rough running, stalling and a general lack of power. If you are going to store your bike for more than three months use a fuel stabilizer to minimize the absorption of water into the fuel.
Ethanol Performance
A motor designed to run on 100% ethanol will make more power that the same size motor on gasoline. Because ethanol has an octane rating of 114, an ethanol only engine could run compression ratios above 13 to 1 to take advantage of the high octane. However, ethanol has about two thirds the potential energy as gasoline (76,000 BTUs vs. 118,000 BTUs). To get the same power from the use of pure ethanol more would have to be used, so the potential extra horsepower would come at the cost of poor fuel economy.
The use of E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) will make slightly less power and deliver lower fuel economy than 100% gasoline—about 1 to 3% depending on vehicle weight/size. For example an SUV weighting 4500 Lbs., and running E10 will get poorer fuel mileage than a 2500 pound sports car (relatively speaking). Using E10 in an 800 pound motorcycle will have less effect on fuel economy because of the lower vehicle weight. Most riders will not be able to feel a power loss of 1 or 2 percent. One last issue with the use of E10 is that some motorcycles may be slightly harder to start in extreme cold weather—usually below 30 degrees F. Not much of an issue as many Harley-Davidson owners don’t ride at temperatures below 45° F.
The Future of Ethanol
In 2007 Portland Oregon became the fist U.S. city to require that all gasoline sold within city limits contain at least 10% ethanol or E10. As of January 2008, Hawaii, Missouri and Minnesota have similar requirements. The role of ethanol in the U.S. gasoline supply has grown from just over 1 percent in the year 2000, to 7 percent in 2008. Ethanol production has nearly tripled, from 3.4 billion gallons in 2004 to over 9 billion gallons in 2009. E10 and other blends of ethanol are sold in all 50 states and about half the U.S. gasoline supply contains some ethanol. The bottom line is E10 is not going away anytime soon. Like it or not, you will probably have to use it to power your motorcycle now and in the future. The good news is that for every gallon of ethanol used, it’s one less gallon of foreign oil that we have to depend on and that dependency has and will continue to cost us dearly.
Here is part of an article that I wrote for American Iron magazine that discusses the use of ethanol in motorcycles.
With MTBE potentially causing cancer the oil companies turned to other chemicals to improve octane, lower exhaust emissions and reduce the overall consumption of crude oil and our dependence on foreign counties to supply it. The use of ethanol or ethyl alcohol (sometime called grain alcohol) is becoming widely used across the country. Ethanol increases fuel octane and adds oxygen to fuel for lower emissions. No doubt that many of you have seen the labels on some gas pumps advising that the fuel contains 10 percent ethanol or “E10” on the pump. The use of ethanol is not a new idea—Henry Ford designed his first car, the 1896 Quadricycle (a bicycle with four wheels and an engine) to run on pure ethanol. In fact the Ford Model T could be fueled with gasoline, ethanol or a mixture of both.
Ethanol, sometimes called bioethanol is unlike petroleum in that it’s a form of renewable energy that can be grown instead of pumped out of the ground. The most common crop in the U.S. for producing liquid ethanol is corn but there are others including potatoes and sugar cane. If you have ever ridden through Nebraska or Iowa you know that lots of corn is planted, all with the potential of making its way into the gas tank between your knees. The rub is that if all that corn is used for making ethanol to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, food production will decrease causing shortages.
Separating fact from myth when it comes to the use of ethanol blended with gasoline is not easy to do. Currently there are two ethanol blends, E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and E85 (85% ethanol—15% gas). Gas stations that dispense E10 will become common in the near future. E85 is reserved for flex-fuel cars that are specifically designed to run on 85% ethanol. E85 can also be used on cars, or motorcycles that have had an E85 conversion kit installed. According the Harley-Davidson “We test, develop, and validate all engines to run with E-10 to ensure they will run on all fuels we expect our customers to encounter. The EFI system on current Harley-Davidson engines self-calibrates to accommodate the fuel being used. There may be a decrease in performance and economy when E-10 is in the tank, but it will be so slight that most riders will not notice a difference.” Parts used in carburetors since the mid 1980’s should be compatible with the use of ethanol. For vintage motorcycles, carburetor should be rebuilt using a modern rebuild kit. All carburetor rebuild kits sold at Harley-Davidson dealers are compatible with the use of ethanol.
Ethanol vs. Parts
Because gasoline has been around for such a long time, components in fuel systems that come in contact with it usually perform without problems. Fuel systems and ethanol is a different story. Ethanol blends can have a corrosive effect on metal parts used in your bike’s fuel system—especially vintage motorcycles. Refiners mix additives into E10 to help prevent corrosion. Also fuel tank sealants made in the U.S. should not have problems with corrosion. However there are materials used on older bikes that may not be compatible with ethanol including, zinc, brass, copper, lead-coated steel, cork, shellac, nylon, rubber gaskets and/or hoses. Newer rubber materials are designed for contact with ethanol. In fact most fuel hoses made after 1984, and marked with SAE J1527, are designed to withstand the use of ethanol.
Before ethanol was around, overlooking fuel hoses, carburetor floats, needle valves and rubber gaskets and/or parts used in carburetors did not cause problems. These items deteriorated slowly, requiring only periodic maintenance. Neglect them today and lack of maintenance can cause fuel leaks and the potential for a fire. Fuel systems that use carburetors should be inspected frequently and rubber parts that appear swollen or mushy should be replaced. Another issue with the use of ethanol is that over time fuel systems tend to accumulate deposits in crevices and corners including sediments, gums, rust, lacquer and other materials. Ethanol will act as a solvent and loosen these types of materials which will often plug up carburetor jets, air bleeds and other passageways.
Storing motorcycles for long periods of time, including over the winter months, can be an issue using E10. Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will absorb water vapor that forms inside of a fuel tank. The water will dilute the fuel and may cause separation of the ethanol/gasoline blend. Water mixed with gas causes rough running, stalling and a general lack of power. If you are going to store your bike for more than three months use a fuel stabilizer to minimize the absorption of water into the fuel.
Ethanol Performance
A motor designed to run on 100% ethanol will make more power that the same size motor on gasoline. Because ethanol has an octane rating of 114, an ethanol only engine could run compression ratios above 13 to 1 to take advantage of the high octane. However, ethanol has about two thirds the potential energy as gasoline (76,000 BTUs vs. 118,000 BTUs). To get the same power from the use of pure ethanol more would have to be used, so the potential extra horsepower would come at the cost of poor fuel economy.
The use of E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) will make slightly less power and deliver lower fuel economy than 100% gasoline—about 1 to 3% depending on vehicle weight/size. For example an SUV weighting 4500 Lbs., and running E10 will get poorer fuel mileage than a 2500 pound sports car (relatively speaking). Using E10 in an 800 pound motorcycle will have less effect on fuel economy because of the lower vehicle weight. Most riders will not be able to feel a power loss of 1 or 2 percent. One last issue with the use of E10 is that some motorcycles may be slightly harder to start in extreme cold weather—usually below 30 degrees F. Not much of an issue as many Harley-Davidson owners don’t ride at temperatures below 45° F.
The Future of Ethanol
In 2007 Portland Oregon became the fist U.S. city to require that all gasoline sold within city limits contain at least 10% ethanol or E10. As of January 2008, Hawaii, Missouri and Minnesota have similar requirements. The role of ethanol in the U.S. gasoline supply has grown from just over 1 percent in the year 2000, to 7 percent in 2008. Ethanol production has nearly tripled, from 3.4 billion gallons in 2004 to over 9 billion gallons in 2009. E10 and other blends of ethanol are sold in all 50 states and about half the U.S. gasoline supply contains some ethanol. The bottom line is E10 is not going away anytime soon. Like it or not, you will probably have to use it to power your motorcycle now and in the future. The good news is that for every gallon of ethanol used, it’s one less gallon of foreign oil that we have to depend on and that dependency has and will continue to cost us dearly.
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Nice article. Concise. Well written.
Do you happen to know: How does a fuel stabilizer minimize the absorption of water into the alcohol?
:lol:
Wee Willy
It's bad, you know
+1. If there were a fuel pump issue with this design there would certainly be evidence of it captured here on the forum. I have not seen anything around here to suggest there is a problem so it's a statistically safe bet that the pump won't cause you any heartache. Drive on...
Cheers,
W2
3dogs
Well-known member
Yes, I do belive that fuel stabilizer absorbs water in the fuel.
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
And yet more evidence I really don't know what I'm talking about. Damn, but's it's hard being wrong so often. It's just when you have a vehicle like the department owned Dodge Ram 2500 in the shop now, that's had it's oil changed every 10-15K, and "it's still running fine!", yet every oil change it needs ignition work, or fuel system work, including-yes-the only Dodge fuel pump we've had to change ever, gets half the fuel mileage it should, has 75K on it yet sounds like it has 250K, I have to wonder. But, whatever works for you. As I recall, anecdotal evidence does not a trend make. The Feej fp appears to be a fairly robust unit, as failures for any reason are relatively unheard of. We replace Chev fuel pumps seemingly every other oil change, so just because one gets away with it on one machine, doesn't mean the love is universal.
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SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
radman - you know I :wub: you man, but really, quit taking discussions so personal. Isn't anybody else allowed to share their ideas? Just because we may offer opinions that are different than yours doesn't mean "And yet more evidence I really don't know what I'm talking about. Damn, but's it's hard being wrong so often." Just say 'no' to the soapbox.
radman
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
radman - you know I :wub: you man, but really, quit taking discussions so personal. Isn't anybody else allowed to share their ideas? Just because we may offer opinions that are different than yours doesn't mean "And yet more evidence I really don't know what I'm talking about. Damn, but's it's hard being wrong so often." Just say 'no' to the soapbox.
It was, this time, fully tongue in cheek. And you gotta stop this "love" ****-your rep preceeds you.
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
Warchild
Benevolent Dictator
This rule is sorta ill-advised for LD Riders when rampaging through the Basin and Ranges of the Desert West. We learned a long, long, loooooong time ago that, particularly at night in the more rural areas, it is problematic to pass up an opportunity for fuel when your total onboard capacity falls much below 50%. All you have to do to appreciate this fact: simply run out of fuel once somewhere in East Jesus.... or pull up on fumes to a gas station that closed 2 hours ago. Then it all becomes clear. :blink:I've a riding buddy who always says: "As a rule, there's no need to put gas on top of gas..."
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SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
Uhhh.......Dale?This rule is sorta ill-advised for LD Riders when rampaging through the Basin and Ranges of the Desert West. We learned a long, long, loooooong time ago that, particularly at night in the more rural areas, it is problematic to pass up an opportunity for fuel when your total onboard capacity falls much below 50%. All you have to do to appreciate this fact: simply run out of fuel once somewhere in East Jesus.... or pull up on fumes to a gas station that closed 2 hours ago. Then it all becomes clear. :blink:I've a riding buddy who always says: "As a rule, there's no need to put gas on top of gas..."
You never gave me that lesson. Perhaps that is why I ran out of gas once during the 07 IBR, and then again once during the 09 IBR.
It's all YOUR fault! :lol:
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Warchild
Benevolent Dictator
I see...... *your* lack of appropriate Fuel State Management is *my* fault..... ooooookay....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That was my thought too.
So how would that behave any differently than the alcohol, which also absorbs water in the fuel?
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Rust never sleeps.
Surly
Well-known member
Hi All,
who gives a toss about the fuel pump? I ride on a lot of group rides in the country and there is too often some dic* that passes the availability of fuel only to run out soon after. Fill up when you can, its a lot easier to ride your bike than push the thing.
Regards
Surly
Upright not Uptight
h34r:
who gives a toss about the fuel pump? I ride on a lot of group rides in the country and there is too often some dic* that passes the availability of fuel only to run out soon after. Fill up when you can, its a lot easier to ride your bike than push the thing.
Regards
Surly
Upright not Uptight
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