major fu#ck up

[FJRay]

the only part of the spark pug left in are the threads. that were it broke off. is this easy out used for this? or am i in major trouble?

If only the threads are left then the EZ out ought to work just fine. After the broken piece is out it would be a good idea to get a tap and clean the threads up before installing a new plug. If the threads are junk then a Heli-coil will solve the problem. I have repaired many spark plug holes with the head in place.

I have a 10mm Helicoil set I could loan you. They are spendy so don't go buy one.

 

[ahchiu]

$50 for a head is a steal! But, ahchiu...that's a VALVE cover for $50...not the cylinder head.
But if he's gonna be taking the head off to replace it, why not just take the head off and pull out the spark plug threads left in the head?

My mistake there is a head cover for $48.95 next to Hear for $200.00 or see Smooth Gary with the replacment motor if needed.

 

[wfooshee]

I found this for you: <Link>There are some very explicit photos of spark plug damage and "EZ-Out" use.

Good luck.

Y'know, I didn't know a plug could break like that. I've broken the porcelain off the top a couple of times, found out the hole in the top of my socket was actually off-center!

 

[syd justice]

if i can remove the pug how will i know if the threads are ok or not? i do not want to damage the enigne any further.

 

[Jon]

if i can remove the pug how will i know if the threads are ok or not? i do not want to damage the enigne any further.

It sounds to me like you broke off the top, porcelain part of the plug leaving the bottom, metal part still screwed into the head. If this is correct, and the hex head of the plug remains, put a socket on it and loosen it 1/4 turn, then tighten it. Then loosen 1/2 turn and then retighten. Go back and forth like this, 1/4 turn at a time until you get the plug out. This will help reduce any thread damage.

Assuming this gets the remaining portion of the plug out, go to a good auto parts store and purchase a spark plug thread chaser in the appropriate size. Using some light oil, run the thread chaser in and out of the spark plug hole a couple times. Then use compressed air to blow out any metal filings that may have dropped in the cylinder. Finally, put in a new plug, DON'T OVER TIGHTEN, and keep your fingers crossed.

 

[RadioHowie]

if i can remove the pug how will i know if the threads are ok or not? i do not want to damage the enigne any further.

Take a good plug to a hardware store, match up the thread pitch and diameter to a metric thread tap, buy it, grease it up real good and run it down the plug hole to clean up the threads if you boogered them up with a cross-thread of the plug that broke.

The reason I said grease it up, if the tap does remove any metal, it will probably stick to the grease on the tap rather than drop down into the cylinder. A tiny chip or two probably wouldn't hurt anything, and would get blown out the exhaust, but why take chances, right?

Good luck on your misadventure.

'Howie

edit: Oops...I see MiniMe beat me to the answer, but I did add the "grease to catch chips" trick.

 

[Big Shasta]

I know exactly what you are dealing with. I had that happen to me in a car with an aluminium head. But I was trying to take out the old plug and it was seized to the head. Snapped off leaving just the threads. I was holding the entire center of the plug including the center electrode.

I took the head off and took it to a machine shop.

Good luck, I feel your pain.

 

[v65]

If I'm reading this right, you used a socket to back the plug out and only the top half came out, then all that's left in the head is threads? If that's the case you might be the second luckiest guy alive, the first being that mythical guy that prefers cheap beer. The remaining threads will screw easily now, you could probably just use a piece of dowel with a smaller diameter than the plug. Push down firmly on what's left, give it a twist and it will turn right out.

 

[RadioHowie]

If I'm reading this right, you used a socket to back the plug out and only the top half came out, then all that's left in the head is threads? If that's the case you might be the second luckiest guy alive, the first being that mythical guy that prefers cheap beer. The remaining threads will screw easily now, you could probably just use a piece of dowel with a smaller diameter than the plug. Push down firmly on what's left, give it a twist and it will turn right out.

Y'know, V...you're probably right. The plug broke while he was putting it IN, not taking it OUT, so it's probably not an issue with threads jammed in the head or seized, but rather a piss-poor made plug that separated right below the hex. Could probably screw it out with the tip of his finger if he could reach down in the well.

Your wooden dowel idea is pretty damn good, too...but tapered down like a pencil just out of a pencil sharpener, to stick down in the middle of the threads where the plug used to be and use it like an EZ-Out...just wood instead of steel.

Good idea!

 

[FJRBluesman]

A torque wrench can be your friend or your enemy. I personally never use a torque wrench on small items (fuel tank mount bolts, fasteners on fairing, etc) or especially the spark plugs or drain plugs. I use my calibrated wrist. Sounds goofy, but I feel better knowing it's tight by my feeling Vs relying on the torque wrench for these items that may call out too much torque.

On critical parts (safety items, motor, brake calipers, etc), the head, frame bolts, etc I will use the torque wrench carefully in incremental steps, making sure I have no binding, interference, or angles that can add excess torque. Many times as I get near the final torque range I don't like the way it's tightening and I stop in fear of stripping.

Also is your torque wrench new or newer, or is it a dial torque, break, rod, etc? I have two torques wrenches and use them on each other for seeing if the torque is accurate to each other. Both could be off but I doubt it. I have a few break torque wrenches (different torque value ranges and ratchet sizes 1/2", 3/8", 1/4") and the one with the rod that moves over the indicator face. You also want to try to use your torque wrench in the middle of it's range for best results. I wouldn't use a 10Ft.Lb. - 150Ft.Lb. torque wrench to torque 20 Ft.Lbs., I think you're asking for trouble IMHO.

Something I did not do with my last plug change was use anti-seize spray on the threads, I ran out. I pray I'm OK when I pull them.

My 2 cents, maybe you know this, maybe it'll help others.

Good luck.

 

[double_entendre]

A torque wrench can be your friend or your enemy. I personally never use a torque wrench on small items (fuel tank mount bolts, fasteners on fairing, etc) or especially the spark plugs or drain plugs. I use my calibrated wrist. Sounds goofy, but I feel better knowing it's tight by my feeling Vs relying on the torque wrench for these items that may call out too much torque.
On critical parts (safety items, motor, brake calipers, etc), the head, frame bolts, etc I will use the torque wrench carefully in incremental steps, making sure I have no binding, interference, or angles that can add excess torque. Many times as I get near the final torque range I don't like the way it's tightening and I stop in fear of stripping.

Also is your torque wrench new or newer, or is it a dial torque, break, rod, etc? I have two torques wrenches and use them on each other for seeing if the torque is accurate to each other. Both could be off but I doubt it. I have a few break torque wrenches (different torque value ranges and ratchet sizes 1/2", 3/8", 1/4") and the one with the rod that moves over the indicator face. You also want to try to use your torque wrench in the middle of it's range for best results. I wouldn't use a 10Ft.Lb. - 150Ft.Lb. torque wrench to torque 20 Ft.Lbs., I think you're asking for trouble IMHO.

Something I did not do with my last plug change was use anti-seize spray on the threads, I ran out. I pray I'm OK when I pull them.

My 2 cents, maybe you know this, maybe it'll help others.

Good luck.

Interesting thought. When I was pulling off the swingarm to lube the pivot I noticed that the spec for the bolt torque was really modest--something like 7 foot pounds or some such. My torque wrench had a minimum of 20 foot pounds and I didn't want to just wing it on the swingarm pivot, so I broke down and bought an inch-pound torque wrench.

I was astonished at just how little torque some of those nuts and bolts need. I'm fairly certain that I was overtorquing by far a lot of small nuts and bolts that were supposed to be tightened to less than 20 foot pounds.

My 2 cents.

Rancho

 

[Fred W]

Yowsers...

I would not trust any of my torque wrenches in the bottom or top 10% of their ranges. That's why you need to have multiple tools for different jobs, Not that this is a bad thing, mind you...

Any day that you get to buy a new tool is a damn good day.

PS - I actually have a torque screwdriver for really, really low torque settings. Think I'm kidding?

 

[ionbeam]

Gasketed plugs often specify a turning angle after finger tight instead of a torque value. It is common to see 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn after snug as a spec. This is enough to crush the soft gasket forming a seal, without endangering the threads. IIRC, the NGK plug box specifies 1/2 turn --or-- a torque spec of 7.2~8.7 lb/ft for aluminum heads. I think the FSM temps fate and asks for a bit more torque that what NGK recommends <_<

 

[Fred W]

Being a master of the obvious , let me say that this only works on new (uninstalled) plugs with virgin crush washers. After the washer on the plug has been once crushed, all bets are off.

However, the torque limit works always (if it's the correct limit, not like Mamma Yamma's funky outta their *** torque specs)

 

[ionbeam]

So Fred, does this mean that you recycle plugs until the electrode is completely gone? How does a pre-crushed gasket affect torque values (if at all)?

Also plugs discussed here: Stripped Plugs Hint -- look at the date. Seriously though, check out this post in the thread that gives a real answer.

 

[Fred W]

Of course!!

I mean, doesn't everyone recycle their spark plug threads? Wasting perfectly good threads is almost tantamount to a crime!!

Dammit!! There are people living in third world countries that would give their left nut for a good used spark plug thread.

I'm just too livid to post any further on this Friday afternoon.

But I quite likely will.

 

[syd justice]

thanks to everybody. i went over to motopia in Dallas and talk to randy, a great guy who has change my tires, he showed me the size backoff bit and gave me the once thru on how not to fu#k it up again. almost the same story as "dude you really broke your spark pug" that joe2lmaker posted. i would not have know what to ask for if i had not received such good advice. sober this time i very carefully went step by step until i was holding the spark pug thread in my hand. the threads look undamaged but i am a little uncertain about putting a new pug in, may wait until tomorrow.

 

[RadioHowie]

thanks to everybody. i went over to motopia in Dallas and talk to randy, a great guy who has change my tires, he showed me the size backoff bit and gave me the once thru on how not to fu#k it up again. almost the same story as "dude you really broke your spark pug" that joe2lmaker posted. i would not have know what to ask for if i had not received such good advice. sober this time i very carefully went step by step until i was holding the spark pug thread in my hand. the threads look undamaged but i am a little uncertain about putting a new pug in, may wait until tomorrow.

Syd, you've done the hard part....that is, present yourself to the possible abuse a Friday could have brought you.

Now you've got the threads out, DON'T puss-out now...put a new plug in, go riding and report back!!!

 

[HaulinAshe]

Syd, use a vacuum cleaner to suck out everything you can from the cylinder through the plug hole, before you go any further. Take the time to tape a piece of fuel line or similar hose to the vacuum nozzle and fish it around in the cylinder.

 

[Geezer]

This is excellent news. Glad you got the broken plug out of there.

Now, do you think you caused the problem, I mean did you really gorilla that plug in there, or could it have been a bad plug to start with?