Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
<edited after checking records> Michelin PR4-GTs are fun and secure in the wet, and have taken my bike over 12,000 miles.
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Michelin Pilot Road 4 Tires Review
- Thread starter kaosbandit
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Kneedragger55
Well-known member
Maybe I just should emphasize "You'd think for GT bikes they'd make the middle sections super hard, and sides super soft, I mean who needs sticky middles anyway?"
My thought is if they were hard enough, you'd rarely have to replace a tire with 90% side tread and 0% middle. Hence, the middle would actually last for "touring". Let's face it, most roads aren't exactly using the entire bandwidth.
N4HHE
Well-known member
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
That's true. I expect the moto-tire designers would say something about the center sections requiring some softness to maintain decent traction during quick braking. I think it's interesting that every rider ends up with cords showing in the center; never seen a tire wear out on the edges. Wonder if that's how they make tires for "cruiser" bikes? With SUPER hard middles and -- who cares what's on the sides.
Of course, you realize that you've just re-stated the case for dark-siding .....
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C&C
Well-known member
"sticky middles", oh I don't know, maybe braking...........
Kneedragger55
Well-known member
Understood. The last thing I want is to tuck the front on a 700lb bike due to less than ideal rubber. BUT...I think there's a balance. I'm thinking that rears have this problem way more than fronts. And since your front is taking the blunt of the brake force, and your rear is suffering from 1300cc's of power, sport mode, and long hours in the saddle; a 2" wide strip of harder rubber on the rear would likely cause no significant loss to braking or acceleration traction, and could potentially increase the life of the middle of a GT tire by as much as 50%. Which would be freaking awesome!!! Man...I should apply for an engineering job at Michelin. My uncle once had the above mentioned position for the motorcycle department. It was pretty awesome as he got some track time testing tires, and yada yada....maybe I'll hit the job postings"sticky middles", oh I don't know, maybe braking...........
As mentioned, braking (on both ends) but also acceleration in the back. Do you really want the back end to break loose every time you crack the throttle open? Plus, as you harden the compound, while the dry traction suffers a little the wet traction suffers a lot.
That was what I did not like about the BT023GT rear. The center was too hard and in wet weather it would activate the ABS too soon.
I think these guys that make moto tires have a lot of knowledge and experience about what is best in a tire design. They just might know a few things more than you and me about it.
I may be an anomaly; in well over 100k miles of FJR riding, which equates to a tall stack of used up tires, I have never once worn out the center of any tire. I am what some would (condescendingly) call a "recreational rider", meaning I do not commute to work ever, and the only times that I ride it is for fun. Sure, sometimes you just have to slab all day to get somewhere, but I generally try to avoid it. I much prefer to spend all day covering 4 or 500 miles on 2-lane back roads than slabbing it all day to cover twice that. Part of that is living in the not-so-wide-open Northeast, where you can traverse 3 states before stopping for breakfast and things aren't so far apart.
In any case, my tires are always bare on the sides before the dual compound in the middle wears to the cords. I replace my tires when the tread is gone, not waiting for the cords to show. I have been able to get ~8-9k miles out of a rear (Diablo, Roadsmart, PR2 or BT023GT) and ~11-12k miles out of a front, and in both cases there is still rubber in the middle when the tread is smooth on the sides.
YMMV
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El Toro
Innocent Bystander
They don't call them chicken strips for nothing.
As Fred points out, what part of the tire you use is pretty much a function of where and how you ride.
Let me clarify, I do not wear out the very edges of the tires first, like a track racer might. It is more like 2/3 of the way up the profile that seem to go first. That is in the softer compound area that you normally use when making turns. My rears generally still have (small) chicken strips when the sides are totally worn out there. It's not at all a matter of riding "aggressively", just the mix of the type of roads and riding that you do.
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El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Michelin used to bring a portable lab to MotoGP races. Data would be taken during FP1, and maybe FP2. Then they would use the data to redesign tires that would perform optimally for the prevailing conditions expected for QP and the race. They would overnight the tires to the track. If I remember correctly, they had three different compounds ... a center compound and then intermediate sidewall left and right, and extreme sidewall left and right. This strategy of building custom tires based on race weekend data was abandoned some years ago. I think that Dorna thought that it gave too big an advantage to Michelin. Michelin eventually dropped out of MotoGP, but they may be back now. I dunno...
Tires can be customized to be harder on the left than the right too. The specific compounds are selected according to the ratio of left to right turns on the track. You can outthink yourself in trying to gain a technical advantage. I guess we're lucky. We just have to worry about whether we want to stay on the light side, or venture over to the dark side.
Tires can be customized to be harder on the left than the right too. The specific compounds are selected according to the ratio of left to right turns on the track. You can outthink yourself in trying to gain a technical advantage. I guess we're lucky. We just have to worry about whether we want to stay on the light side, or venture over to the dark side.
wheatonFJR
...
Hud, Hud, Hud...You need to be payin' attention. I believe there is a certain Tennessee rider that does exactly that.
Can't remember his Forum name...but that's just I be old and senile...
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Bill Lumberg
Merica
I've never worn out a front in the center. Always tread remaining in the center, with the shoulders sheared damn near off...
Kneedragger55
Well-known member
Michelin is back to MotoGP. This year everyone wears Michelin, they also updated rules for software control so that everyone has identical software. The big stipulation in Qatar (1st race) was how riders would adapt to the new tire changes. Seems like they work good so far, but had some elongated times to reach "full race temp", hence some tippy toeing the first few laps.
Fred you are definitely a anomaly, and I wish I lived where you do apparently. My one or two trips to the NC mountains each year balanced my heavy middle wear, without that I'd be in the same boat as now. Usually a week long trip takes me from 90% to 20% side tread, which is great because that's all I need when I come back. Then I get to have FULL USE out of my tires. When I lived at Deals Gap, it was only side wear. Sides would go bald in a matter of weeks, complete opposite of now. Only now I plan on riding there, which amplifies the middle wear. I too plan on two-lane travel over four, but simply put...there's just not enough curves. I also do some commuting, which doesn't help....but hey....the weather's nice...I'M RIDING!!!
Fred you are definitely a anomaly, and I wish I lived where you do apparently. My one or two trips to the NC mountains each year balanced my heavy middle wear, without that I'd be in the same boat as now. Usually a week long trip takes me from 90% to 20% side tread, which is great because that's all I need when I come back. Then I get to have FULL USE out of my tires. When I lived at Deals Gap, it was only side wear. Sides would go bald in a matter of weeks, complete opposite of now. Only now I plan on riding there, which amplifies the middle wear. I too plan on two-lane travel over four, but simply put...there's just not enough curves. I also do some commuting, which doesn't help....but hey....the weather's nice...I'M RIDING!!!
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
FUBAR, MrTwisty, effenjustride, and Clocklaw, I think, have all worn tires out on the sides while leaving the centers looking unused. Just a factor of their terrain. If someone lives .5 miles from twisty roads, there's no reason to slab it to them.
Probably the same thing going on with Fred.
Probably the same thing going on with Fred.
devaldez
Member
I just picked up this thread because I'm in a bit of a dilemma and would love feedback. I love, Love, LOVE my PR4 GTs and have gotten ~15k from the rear and ~20k from the front, but I don't tend to do a lot of slabbing. Fujin came with new Conti crap that in 3000 miles has already worn to the bars on the rear. I tend to buy tires in sets, so now I'm looking to replace them. As I've said, the PR4s have been awesome on Saoirse. The more I read, the more twisted around the axle I become. You see, I have been considering Pirelli Diablo A-Specs, too. Everything I read says the A-Specs will out-stick my PR4s in the dry, but come rain, the PR4s rule the roost. So, knowing I'll likely burn through a set in the coming six months regardless of mileage potential, do I get the Pirellis or the PR4s. It IS coming into summer, but Oregon has a habit of delaying summer past June after teasing beauty earlier.
ARGH! Regardless, these Contis will be exercised on Lolo Pass and OR-245 this weekend, THEN it's time to change up.
Does anyone have experience with both Pirellis and Miches?
ARGH! Regardless, these Contis will be exercised on Lolo Pass and OR-245 this weekend, THEN it's time to change up.
Does anyone have experience with both Pirellis and Miches?
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smithpa68
Well-known member
One thing I thought I would contribute from my PR4 experience is I had a lot of cupping on the PR4s. So I switched to the PR4GTs. It made a big difference for me. I do admit to a Traxxion upgrade also.. not sure if that will affect tire wear or not.. but wanted to mention it for full disclosure. I ride 2 up 40% of the time. Mostly twisties in the N GA and NC mountains. A handful of heavily loaded camping trips. Tire PSI religiously checked 39F 42R. No cupping at all this time. My rear tire is just barely above the wear bars at 10.5k. Front is better. Probably has 1500 miles left. This set did quite a bit more slab than normal from the Big Money Rally.
Overall, I thought the GT version was better than the standard PR4s. The non GTs cupped really bad. If I recall, correctly, I think my standard PR4s lasted about 8k with the same front to rear wear ratio as the GT. IMHO, the advertisement from Michelin for PR4GT as intended for the heavier sport touring/GT type bikes has panned out for me. Just ordered another set.
Overall, I thought the GT version was better than the standard PR4s. The non GTs cupped really bad. If I recall, correctly, I think my standard PR4s lasted about 8k with the same front to rear wear ratio as the GT. IMHO, the advertisement from Michelin for PR4GT as intended for the heavier sport touring/GT type bikes has panned out for me. Just ordered another set.
I am going to move on to PR4's next change. You state the non GT's were cupping (front) How much do you weigh? I do not ride two up and weigh 145 lbs. I run 39psi front and 42psi rear. Given my profile I am thinking the standard PR4's will do well??
Heen
Barefooter
Fred W, You are my kind of rider. If I ever get to NH, we will have to ride.
smithpa68
Well-known member
I am 230lbs without gear. Wife is 150. Considerable difference in weight for sure. Maybe
All of the current Pirelli Diablos are sport bike tires. Those will vaporize from your heavy FJR in very short order. I do have experience with them on a VFR800 (considerably lighter bike with less power) and they do stick to the road well, but are not sport touring tires. When you read about people running Diablos on an FJR it was probably the Diablo Stradas, which are (unfortunately) long gone.
The Angels are Pirelli's current ST tires, and they do make a GT version for the heavier bikes. By most accounts they stick a bit better than Michelins do, at least on dry roads, but wear at a faster rate.
I know that you said you replace your tires in pairs, but do they have to be a "matched set"? Many of us run a Michelin rear (for the good long wear characteristics) with a stickier front tire with a pattern less apt to scallop. The Angel front would be a good candidate to pair with a PRx rear (x = any from 2 to 4). I'm currently running a Bridgestone T30 front with a PR2 rear and like that combo a lot.
Some of the southern hot-shoes will run a true sport bike front with a dual compound ST rear. When you do that the front and rear tend to wear out together at the same time. And the front end will stick like glue, which is a good thing.
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