Michelin PR2 and ABS

[fitrx]

Now, it hasn't happened in the last 700 miles since I got this new shoes.
Real test coming up this weekend. Please have fire department and ambulance ready to go. :devil: Just kidding, lets hope that they are not needed and in fact new PR2 are the next best thing since the sliced bread. Stay tune.

That's what I'm betting on!

You wont believe what happened...

Since I finally got a full night sleep I decide to take a bike in to work today at whooping 34 degree. Tire pressure check, gear check. We have a parking lot at work that had been coated to a point that it is almost glass smooth. Should be n brainier to lock up a tire, right? Well here is what happened...

Speed up to about 20 and push hard on the rear brake and nothing, bike just stops. Speed up again and now I put more weight and it still wont slide. I am getting worried here. So, I do another run and now I slam on the rear brake and sure enough ABS starts pulsating on the rear brake pedal.

Drum roll please :assassin: here comes a front brake test. Again speed up to 20 and zilch. Speed up to 20 again, at this time my heart is doing double time you got to be nuts to lock up the front on purpose, and sure enough ...... it is pulsating :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

What, you thought that I have crashed? silly you.

I am telling you this PR2 is amazing how much grip they provide. I had to strugle to lock up both brakes where is before it was almost daily. Money well spent.

Let us know what kind of tread life you get with those tar babies.

 

[markjenn]

Sorry, but there is no way that a PR2 time has suddenly made a quantum leap in grip beyond other tires. Improvements in tire technology these days are extremely incremental - the PR2 appears to be a very good tire, but it's not going to suddenly improve straight-up/down grip by a huge margin.

Don't take this wrong, but with the trouble you've had getting the ABS to lockup, it sure soundsl ike you're being VERY timid on the brakes. I'd suggest you continue to work out in the parking lot to get to the point where you're at ABS threshold quickly, ideally in an instructional setting (like an ERC).

- Mark

 

[cougar8000]

Ah, Mark

You might have missed my signature. I think I am just maybe slightly proficient in how brakes work.

 

[madmike2]

I am telling you this PR2 is amazing how much grip they provide. I had to strugle to lock up both brakes where is before it was almost daily. Money well spent.

IMO, the combination of the bike's braking ability and the tire's adhesion surpassed your expectations. Good for you on both counts. It seems the threshold for ABS activation was far above what you thought. New tires will have slightly better grip, but now you know what to expect with this combination.

You know...you might be convincing me to buy a set of PR2s just to try them. I, too, am interested in tread life since the 'Stone 021 fronts tend to wear quickly (I got 3500 miles out of mine).

Sorry, but there is no way that a PR2 time has suddenly made a quantum leap in grip beyond other tires.

Actually, it is entirely possible. I hated the 'Stone 020s that came OEM on my '04. The combination of the tires and my riding style were not a "match made in heaven". The Metz Z04s on the '05 were "okay" but I didn't trust them because of published problems. Avon Storms, Michelin PRs and Pirelli Diablo Stradas were a vast improvment in handling and braking.

 

[HYCLE]

I am telling you this PR2 is amazing how much grip they provide. I had to strugle to lock up both brakes where is before it was almost daily. Money well spent.

IMO, the combination of the bike's braking ability and the tire's adhesion surpassed your expectations. Good for you on both counts. It seems the threshold for ABS activation was far above what you thought. New tires will have slightly better grip, but now you know what to expect with this combination.

You know...you might be convincing me to buy a set of PR2s just to try them. I, too, am interested in tread life since the 'Stone 021 fronts tend to wear quickly (I got 3500 miles out of mine).

Sorry, but there is no way that a PR2 time has suddenly made a quantum leap in grip beyond other tires.

Actually, it is entirely possible. I hated the 'Stone 020s that came OEM on my '04. The combination of the tires and my riding style were not a "match made in heaven". The Metz Z04s on the '05 were "okay" but I didn't trust them because of published problems. Avon Storms, Michelin PRs and Pirelli Diablo Stradas were a vast improvment in handling and braking.

MM2, I think you would like the PR2s. When will you be back to riding?

 

[cougar8000]

Mike, I think this year I wont be able to put more then couple K on them, but by may next year I should have at least 5-6K on them. Stay tune.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

.... it sure soundsl ike you're being VERY timid on the brakes. I'd suggest you continue to work out in the parking lot to get to the point where you're at ABS threshold quickly, ideally in an instructional setting (like an ERC).

Alex.....TIMID!???........I don't think so :nea:

 

[Fred W]

Now, it hasn't happened in the last 700 miles since I got this new shoes.
Real test coming up this weekend. Please have fire department and ambulance ready to go. :devil: Just kidding, lets hope that they are not needed and in fact new PR2 are the next best thing since the sliced bread. Stay tune.

That's what I'm betting on!

You wont believe what happened...

Since I finally got a full night sleep I decide to take a bike in to work today at whooping 34 degree. Tire pressure check, gear check. We have a parking lot at work that had been coated to a point that it is almost glass smooth. Should be n brainier to lock up a tire, right? Well here is what happened...

Speed up to about 20 and push hard on the rear brake and nothing, bike just stops. Speed up again and now I put more weight and it still wont slide. I am getting worried here. So, I do another run and now I slam on the rear brake and sure enough ABS starts pulsating on the rear brake pedal.

Drum roll please :assassin: here comes a front brake test. Again speed up to 20 and zilch. Speed up to 20 again, at this time my heart is doing double time you got to be nuts to lock up the front on purpose, and sure enough ...... it is pulsating :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

What, you thought that I have crashed? silly you.

I am telling you this PR2 is amazing how much grip they provide. I had to strugle to lock up both brakes where is before it was almost daily. Money well spent.

Like I said. There was no way that the ABS would malfunction with the symptoms you described.

Glad you don't have a problem.

 

[burnergold2B]

Is there a letter missing in your tire designation? Michelin?

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Is there a letter missing in your tire designation? Michelin?

Michelin Pilot Road 2

 

[HYCLE]

Quick partial update.
Went home and sure enough turn the key ABS light comes on and off, which sounds like it is working properly.

And yes, Larry is correct with one caveat. I never saw ABS light come on while riding. What I did noticed before is brake would pulsate often during hard braking indicating that ABS are getting activated. Now, it hasn't happened in the last 700 miles since I got this new shoes.

Real test coming up this weekend. Please have fire department and ambulance ready to go. :devil: Just kidding, lets hope that they are not needed and in fact new PR2 are the next best thing since the sliced bread. Stay tune.

Hi Alex, here is a possibility. Before you changed tires you actually had a problem with an intermitant signal from the wheel speed sensor. This could cause the brakes to pulsate when they did not need to. If the wheel speed sensor skips a few beats the computer see that as wheel lock up and dumps the brake pressure until it sees the wheel spinning again at a normal rate. So in theory you may have fixed the problem when the wheels were removed and cleaned for the new tires. Some of my logic may be flawed with regards to how Yamaha does things but it is a common problem with the BMW and Mercedes cars I repair.

Now, since I have about 1500 miles on my PR2s I must say they sure stick good and seem to match my riding style. I don't remember how much tread they had new but they measure 7/32 of an inch now.

 

[cougar8000]

hmm maybe you are correct. I am just happy to know that it is all working now.

 

[markjenn]

Hi Alex, here is a possibility. Before you changed tires you actually had a problem with an intermitant signal from the wheel speed sensor. This could cause the brakes to pulsate when they did not need to. If the wheel speed sensor skips a few beats the computer see that as wheel lock up and dumps the brake pressure until it sees the wheel spinning again at a normal rate. So in theory you may have fixed the problem when the wheels were removed and cleaned for the new tires. Some of my logic may be flawed with regards to how Yamaha does things but it is a common problem with the BMW and Mercedes cars I repair.

I can't see any scearnio where the speed sensor could be "skipping a few beats" now and then and not bringing up a failure code. This is grasping at straws.

- Mark

 

[markjenn]

You might have missed my signature. I think I am just maybe slightly proficient in how brakes work.

I don't know if "timid" is the right word, but if you're having difficulty bringing a properly functioning modern bike's brakes to lockup (or ABS engagement if the bike has ABS), then almost by definition, you're not squeezing hard enough. There is no tire, not matter how sticky, whose traction can't be ovecome by a modern bike's brake system many times over.

- Mark

 

[madmike2]

You might have missed my signature. I think I am just maybe slightly proficient in how brakes work.

I don't know if "timid" is the right word, but if you're having difficulty bringing a properly functioning modern bike's brakes to lockup (or ABS engagement if the bike has ABS), then almost by definition, you're not squeezing hard enough. There is no tire, not matter how sticky, whose traction can't be ovecome by a modern bike's brake system many times over.

- Mark

Since he has since tested the combination in a parking lot (which he fully and completely admitted he hadn't had a chance to do or noticed during normal "street riding" as with his Bridgestone 020 tires) and has achieved ABS activation with the PR2s.....

[SIZE=14pt]Is there a reason to beat this dead horse position?[/SIZE]

What's the point?

The whole dialogue was based on THIS premise:

Nov 7 2007, 07:21 AM Post #8 Like I said, on 020 I had ABS getting activated more then I really cared about it.

.
Which he then answered with this, yesterday:

Yesterday, 11:06 AM Post #19You wont believe what happened...

Speed up to about 20 and push hard on the rear brake and nothing, bike just stops. Speed up again and now I put more weight and it still wont slide. I am getting worried here. So, I do another run and now I slam on the rear brake and sure enough ABS starts pulsating on the rear brake pedal.

......here comes a front brake test. Again speed up to 20 and zilch. Speed up to 20 again, at this time my heart is doing double time you got to be nuts to lock up the front on purpose, and sure enough ...... it is pulsating

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

You're missing the point of the post, Mark. With the old tires, applying "X" amount of brake, Alex felt the ABS kick in. With the new tires, applying the same "X" amount of brake, Alex wasn't feeling the ABS pulse. It's not that he was UNABLE to apply enough brake to have the ABS kick in, he simply received different feedback from the brakes after putting the new PR2's on. It would appear that with the new tires, he's able to be slightly more aggressive in braking before the ABS kicks in than before.

I agree with MM2, this horse is worm food.

 

[cougar8000]

I agree with MM2, this horse is worm food.

Something starting to smell funny...

 

[markjenn]

Look guys, I agree the horse is dead, but let's review this for a second. The OP starts this off by saying he can't get his ABS to work with his new tires, and offers two explanations: 1) faulty ABS; and 2) fantastic levels of new grip from new tires. Since then, we've now had an intermittent sensor failure theory advanced as well.

Sorry to rock the boat fellas, but none of these theories hold any water. That's all I was saying.

And while I don't mean to impune anyone's riding abilities, getting one's bike to ABS threshold should be something that doesn't require acres of empty parking lot, a free afternoon, or an ambulance on call. It is something that every well-trained rider should be able to do on demand in virtually any straight-up-and-down situation, because the accident situation that is going to require it is not going to give you any warning.

Okay, enough. Sorry to be a jerk about this, but I'm going to call them as I see them.

- Mark

 

[SkooterG]

Look guys, I agree the horse is dead, but let's review this for a second. The OP starts this off by saying he can't get his ABS to work with his new tires, and offers two explanations: 1) faulty ABS; and 2) fantastic levels of new grip from new tires. Since then, we've now had an intermittent sensor failure theory advanced as well.
Sorry to rock the boat fellas, but none of these theories hold any water. That's all I was saying.

And while I don't mean to impune anyone's riding abilities, getting one's bike to ABS threshold should be something that doesn't require acres of empty parking lot, a free afternoon, or an ambulance on call. It is something that every well-trained rider should be able to do on demand in virtually any straight-up-and-down situation, because the accident situation that is going to require it is not going to give you any warning.

Okay, enough. Sorry to be a jerk about this, but I'm going to call them as I see them.

- Mark

GUNNY!

I am with you Mark. Well said.

 

[madmike2]

OH, now I see....someone has to be declared "The Winner". Okay...you win!

I think most of us read, saw and interpreted what the issue was from the beginning. We just chose NOT to say, "Hey, supid, y'all need tuh jist reef on them breaks untill y'all heer thems ABS doin-it". Rather we could tell he was used to his cardboard 020s that under mildly severe brake pressure would skid and activate the ABS. He even admitted he'd not been to a place where he felt comfortable testing the new tires and would do so and report back.

In fact, that's what he did do. Maybe where you live, there qare ample places to do so but he said there weren't near his home. Personally, I don't drive like that in my neighborhood and the local gendarmes-revenue agents in my town are "thick" and watching. I set aside the time and know where there are unused parking lots for my testing adventures. He indicated he did not have that luxury and would do so when he could. Which, he DID and reported back.

Nevertheless...since you obviously need the stroke.....I will freely admit, you were right in every way and your assessment was the only correct insight. You win! You were right! Good for you! Atta boy!

As an alternative thought, some of us merely encouraged him to take the time, as soon as he could, and find the ABS activation threshhold of the new tires to be certain. We were wrong...you were right.

Are we done now?