More FJRs going down?

[sprint_st]

Of course, that bike was pretty gutless. It was an 800 V-twin. A unique bike, to be sure (you could make the drunk into an ice chest!), but gutless. Maybe folks took it a little slower.

Maybe it's because we ride them in the dirt and everywhere else. Also I think the ice chest "makes" you into the drunk, not vice versa. (OR the herky jerky throttle!!!!!!!!!!!)

I've been riding since about 1966. At one time I had Kawasaki Z1B and it was the fastest production bike on the planet when I had it. I now own a Sprint ST. It is not considered a "hot" bike BUT it is at least 50 pounds lighter than the Z1, puts about 30 more horsepower, corners like no Z1 ever did and stops on a dime. I also had a PC800 which had zero acceleration above about 80mph BUT could tour with just about any sane rider. It isn't the bike that crashes, it is the rider. A good rider on a PC800 can cruise past the accident location of a squid on an FJR.

In my opinion there are several reasons for the crash rates:

1. Bikes have better brakes, better tires and more power than ever before which means you can get into more trouble than ever before.

2. The mind set of groups of riders of a particular brand are vastly different (remember I'm talking generalities not specific riders). HD aimers tend to ride slower, in packs and usually are not experienced bike riders. GSXR drivers usually ride faster, have better skills and push the envelope way too much. You can make your own decision about FJR jockies, but the point of "Maybe folks took it a little slower" probably has merit.

3. There is a tendency of wallets to exceed ability. I have a hunch this principle applies to FJR's, BMW's and definitely applies to HD's. Just because you have the cash to buy and ride something doesn't automatically give you the skills to pilot it. This is compounded by the fact that when a lot of people have the cash and time for a great bike, they are at an age when they have run out of the dumb luck and reflexes of youth.

4. This is an extension to #3. There is no substitute for time and miles on a bike. Anyone who has been in a panic situation and come out of it without a scratch knows exactly what I mean. It isn't luck, your body and mind are capable of saving your tale feathers if you let them and you have built up the skills.

 

[Last Chance]

I sold a K1200LT and bought the FJR. Nothing will ever feel top-heavy or clumsy at low speed. The FJR is downright flickable. It's all in your point of view.

Perhaps, but from the relative point of view, if they are perceiving and reacting to that perception, much depends on their previous experience. And if the pillions are adding to that mix, its a reality they must attend to.

I've seen a pillion lean over just as the rider raised the sidestand and was getting settled. The "tip-over", while interesting, just wasn't funny.

No, it's not REALLY funny, but brought back memories of the times my wife nearly caused a tip over of my cruiser while she got on. She just doesn't understand basic physics and is not about to learn at this late date. Naturally I've "banned" her from riding with me on the FJR.. Guess I'll keep the VTX for those rare occasions she wants to go riding. :yahoo:

 

[SilveradoSlick]

1. Bikes have better brakes, better tires and more power than ever before which means you can get into more trouble than ever before.2. The mind set of groups of riders of a particular brand are vastly different (remember I'm talking generalities not specific riders). HD aimers tend to ride slower, in packs and usually are not experienced bike riders. GSXR drivers usually ride faster, have better skills and push the envelope way too much. You can make your own decision about FJR jockies, but the point of "Maybe folks took it a little slower" probably has merit.

Can't really agree with your first two points. Seems like almost all the recent accidents I'm aware of didn't involve squidly behavior. Some are unexplainable, given that the rider's skill far exceeded the level required.

I've been on rides with members of this forum and the pace has always been appropriate; not necessarily sedate, but appropriate for the road and the riders. Seems most recent accidents on group rides here in Cali involved either errant Harleys or playa dust.

 

[Dan23]

I just returned from a breakfast run at 39 degrees F. While on the ride, I noticed for the first time ever the result of a too quick throttle input. I think this was my fault; something I typically control with smooth throttle inputs. However, if a rider was to have that throttle glitch while in a low traction situation, the result could be a bike on it's side. What I'm getting at is if there's a large number of bikes with that throttle capability, one might notice a higher than expected number of bikes going down. Is that what we're witnessing?

 

[Grievous Angel]

I just returned from a breakfast run at 39 degrees F. While on the ride, I noticed for the first time ever the result of a too quick throttle input. I think this was my fault; something I typically control with smooth throttle inputs. However, if a rider was to have that throttle glitch while in a low traction situation, the result could be a bike on it's side. What I'm getting at is if there's a large number of bikes with that throttle capability, one might notice a higher than expected number of bikes going down. Is that what we're witnessing?

I've certainly had that thought. There have been a couple of times in a turn where the throttle has caught me off guard a bit. Most of the time I was making a mistake--carrying too much speed, forcing me to make adjustments mid turn instead of smoothly accelerating all the way through--but when you're leaned over and get that "throttle jerk" it can be a little disconcerting.

Something to think about.

 

[Kiki]

I will throw in my 2 cents-- having just come off a 02 VMax (bendy in the center ) and having never driven an FJR, I found my first several miles in the slower speed stuff sort of unnerving-- where the bike initiated the turn easily, but then I had to fight the bars to keep it from falling over. When I eventually made it home, I checked the tire pressure, and both were down 10-15 psi from rec. After the pump up, the bike is much easier to handle.

 

[Grievous Angel]

Yet another rider goes down, the cause still unexplained (another thread). I thought it inappropriate to ask there. No one else saw the accident, we can only speculate.

If I read it right, they'd split in to two groups: the "slow" and "not so slow." And this accident happened in the "not so slow" group.

Perhaps the driver did cross the yellow line--did the speed of the riding group allow for this margin of error?

Since I originally posted this there've been at least a handful of other FJR riders going down. The most plausible explanation is that we "ride more" but I'm not sure I buy it. I don't have any experience on a Gold Wing board--they ride a lot, do they crash as much? I've frequented various car enthusiasts forums--surely cars that get more miles than our bikes--and I don't recall anything like the level of crashing we have here.

Thankfully, every story I've read here had a relatively happy ending--the rider lived to tell about it. At this rate, that will probably change pretty soon.

Maybe the answer is that we ride a lot--and we ride *hard* a lot. Maybe a little too hard. Maybe leaning a little too hard to the "sport" end of the "sport touring" side on a bike that might be a little further to the "touring" side of things than we'd like to admit. I don't think removing the bags turns this beast into anything remotely resembling a GSXR1000. Not even close.

I risk getting flamed here, and that's fine. But you can't dispute the numbers. They're right here in front of us. We're crashing. A lot.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Yet another rider goes down, the cause still unexplained (another thread). ..... we can only speculate.If I read it right, they'd split in to two groups: the "slow" and "not so slow." And this accident happened in the "not so slow" group.

I read it differently:

bigdolma wrote, yesterday: I met Larry and his group of riders coming from Ortega Highway in Redlands at a gas station. We decided to split the group in half. Slow and no so slow riders. I joined the not so slow.

Larry was either number 3 or 4 on the group lead by another rider (non FJR). I was last in my group when we starting climbing big bear from the back.

'Grievous Angel' (again)erhaps the driver did cross the yellow line--did the speed of the riding group allow for this margin of error?

Since I originally posted this there've been at least a handful of other FJR riders going down. The most plausible explanation is that we "ride more" but I'm not sure I buy it. I don't have any experience on a Gold Wing board--they ride a lot, do they crash as much? I've frequented various car enthusiasts forums--surely cars that get more miles than our bikes--and I don't recall anything like the level of crashing we have here.

Thankfully, every story I've read here had a relatively happy ending--the rider lived to tell about it. At this rate, that will probably change pretty soon.

Maybe the answer is that we ride a lot--and we ride *hard* a lot. Maybe a little too hard. Maybe leaning a little too hard to the "sport" end of the "sport touring" side on a bike that might be a little further to the "touring" side of things than we'd like to admit. I don't think removing the bags turns this beast into anything remotely resembling a GSXR1000. Not even close.

I risk getting flamed here, and that's fine. But you can't dispute the numbers. They're right here in front of us. We're crashing. A lot.

Many questions -- nothing resolved. We don't even have the police report yet. The FJR does, imo, resemble a GSXR1000 -- it's also an excellent motorcycle! Any fault lies not with the bike. Bottom line: road users and (their) levels of skill. Where do they (road users): car, bike, whatever -- fall on that skill level continuum. Some answers lie in: (both)(increased & more rigorous) education and regulation/legislation. And, it's not slow or not-so-slow -- it's skill. The riding skills must be learned and practiced -- and, for some?, the FJR may not be the best bike for that? (By the same token -- an SUV may not be appropriate for 60s year old female other road user?) :glare: As to the "numbers" comment: let's see some -- good statistics (often) help shed light on problems. You might be right? -- we may be "crashing our brains out" way more than the general riding public? But, without the numbers....?

 

[ionbeam]

Some of the recent crashers haven't been able to do it alone. ZZ and BBIII had to have cagers help, without the cage they wouldn't have had the accidents that totaled man and machine.

I'm sure this isn't what was meant when the XX group referred to us FJR riders as the knitting circle :glare:

Odot is exempt, he was resisting being taken aboard the space ship.

 

[mdisher]

Odot is exempt, he was resisting being taken aboard the space ship.

When id Odot crash? I musta missed that one.

 

[exskibum]

Odot is exempt, he was resisting being taken aboard the space ship.

When id Odot crash? I musta missed that one.

Wondering the same thing and hoping I just misread it.

 

[ionbeam]

After a conspicuous absence from the Forum Odot surfaced on 11/6 looking for a wheel. After a few days of inquires as to his health Odot sez:

I'd tell you the story but, I don't remember any of it. All I know is where I laid her down. Otherwise, am doing ok now. Other then staples and stitches in me head and other places I'll get over it.

Later there was some mention of a Jersey Barrier and a request for info on welding a sub-frame.
We all wish ya well O.

 

[exskibum]

Wow -- that doesn't sound good. Hope you're ok odot.

 

[odot]

I'm on a better road to recovery. I'm going to stop selling drugs to teens and stop beating my wife up every time she doesn't put the seat back down for me. But, I am still going to wear my wife beater shirt...drink cold beer....watch hockey...(when I can)....and flip off any fjr riders I see when I am driving my pt cruiser down the texas highway.

I'm still in the market for any previous "crashers" who want to trade scabs.......

 

[weekend rider]

I have read many post here about the bike going down , toi overs, too heavy , slow speed crasshes

what is next? Not once have I heard the real reason for these incidents to happen. Lets see if the bike is on its center stand how could it fall over? It seem to me that it would require an action of movement for that to happen. And how would that action happen, most likely by a human trying to get the bike to do something they want to happen ( for every action taken there is an opposite, reaction happening) result either staying up or going down. How did it go down by the human error action.

So why blame the bike for something it had nothing to do with?

Just a different twist

weekend rider

 

[ionbeam]

Not once have I heard the real reason for these incidents to happen.

recent crashers haven't been able to do it alone. ZZ and BBIII had to have cagers help

 

[Scab]

I'm still in the market for any previous "crashers" who want to trade scabs.......

Didn't realize I was on the market. What am I going for these days, Odot? Best I can remember, after a couple beers I was usually pretty cheap.

 

[weekend rider]

Scab wow I am glad I read your post. i did not realize how that read to some one else. I was refering to the riders that have those minor incidents like a droped bike or real slow speed go over and not crashes like bbIII crash and the zz mans or any wrecks like that.

When cagers are involved I say get your weapons and fire at will.

weekend

 

[Whip]

I was reading somewhere that a lot of previous squids are moving into the sport touring market as they get older....maybe they still want to be squids are having trouble with the extra size of the FJR.

For the record the FJR is not top heavy or heavy in anyway compared to my RT, the GT's I've road or the GW and LT I've test road.(Not to mention my HD).

Whip

20k in the first 6 months of ownership.

 

[wheatonFJR]

1) more cell-phone yacking, latte sipping cagers :angry:

2)a) Less experienced riders "movin' on up" to the FJR, b- wanting to meet other "new" friends at FJR rides, c) widely varying ride ability at FJR rides-combined with the lesser able riders wanting to "keep up" with more able riders and d)not "knowing" their limits and then e) "freaking" when they get in over their head and ending up in the ditch or worse.

3) a)bees or b- owls or other large birds in greater quantities than before, due to c) global warming or d) ice age both evidently caused by e) George Bush or f) Al Gore who g) invented the Internet(s?) and h) caused us to get to know more buddies who get hurt by 1, 2a-e, or 3a-f. :huh:

my .03