odot
CC member # 17,----- DUP member # 7, mensa club m
He's gonna have 39 grand in medical bills after they reset his leg.
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FJRMGM
FJRMGM
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I gotta git me one of them Harley chopper bikes.
Here are few HD videos, I found on the forum.
Link 1
Link 2
After reading the news stories of those riders losing control of their HDs I wonder how big a issue this is. How would removing all first time HD riders from the numbers affect how safe riding a bike will become on paper. Yes, it is true every make and model has deaths. I just wonder if the HD death percentage of riders is other then other makes such as Yamaha.
Link 1
Link 2
After reading the news stories of those riders losing control of their HDs I wonder how big a issue this is. How would removing all first time HD riders from the numbers affect how safe riding a bike will become on paper. Yes, it is true every make and model has deaths. I just wonder if the HD death percentage of riders is other then other makes such as Yamaha.
uctofeej
Master of Random Thought
I have a family member who sells HDs. He says 2-3 bikes per month never make it home from the sale. But as someone already pointed out, many of the streets in his town run N, S, E, W, so its gotta have something to do with direction...
MikeYork5
Well-known member
Here we go again.....While tragic, I don't believe Harley (riders) have a lock on first time owners busting them selves up with their lack of experience and stupidity - some just happen to be on a Harley (they attract a lot of first time buyers - so?)
And........ahem.....the way you 'experienced' guys on this forum are busting yourselves up on your state of the art FJR's --- I'd kind of keep a low profile when discussing this topic----- ya think?
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JimLor
Well-known member
:nhl_fight:
exskibum
~<>~<>~<>~<>~
Gunny to that. We don't often agree on anything, but we do here.
Just wondering which is worse for an inexperienced rider: a heavy less responsive machine or a lighter, faster one. Probably just a question of circumstances.
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Scab
I got nothin' here...
That's why I was sitting in the back of the room...staring at the floor...not saying a word...
uctofeej
Master of Random Thought
I'm sure the other brands have their share of fresh-off-the-floor crashes, too. I just happen to hear a lot of firsthand accounts of Harley crashes... some are sad, some are funny.
I agree HD riders do not have a lock on the first time riders get busted up. Maybe my interpretation of the local news stories and facts have led me to an incorrect conclusion. But, I would like to see a few facts to proof my interpretation is incorrect. I am NOT an expert on motorcycle safety of fatalities. I just happen to get to see all motorcycle related accidents in NV if I choose though the Department of Public Safety since I am a rider coach.
Out of the last 10 or so fatal accidents of new(er) riders I have seen I believe seven were HD riders. So, yes that leave three or so to have been on other bikes. I do believe of the 10 or so accidents five or six are related to lack of experience of training. The other four in my opinion are related to buying a HD because you want to buy the "lifestyle".
However, out of the 10 or so fatal accidents of experienced riders the HD percentage is only slightly higher. After reading about the accidents the higher HD percentage was driven up by the two riders who had been drinking. I also have an opinion the HD "lifestyle" accepts a drink or two before hitting the road. This is just my opinion and not a fact by any mean. Maybe I am wrong, but it just seems I see more HDs at the local bars then other makes. If you take the two riders under the influence out of the mix there is not any make of style bike that stand out.
For me, I am lead to believe the HD "lifestyle" is a major factor in HD riders deaths, new rider and experienced rider. I do NOT believe the higher HD deaths are related to owning a HD. I hope that made sense.
I think the HD lifestyle can and is a stereotype that affects most conversations about HD riders. There are definitely many safe HD riders who are experienced, safe, and own their HD for the machine and not the lifestyle. But I think they are lost in the stereotype. However the stereotype works both ways. I work part time at a local radio station where there are eight HD owners. They clearly have a stereotype against sport bike owners as being speed demons and careless. As a matter of fact, the first time they saw my FJR the side bags were not on and I was given a good dose of crap for having a sports bike. Is there stereotype correct? Are ALL sport bike riders speed demons and careless? No, of course not. But, both groups have to deal with the stereotype.
Outside of the stereotype I have an opinion that those rider who buy ANY bike for the "image" or "lifestyle" have a higher chance of being killed on the bike. With that said, I also believe out of 10 new riders buying a bike for the "image" or "lifestyle" seven or so will buy a HD. The higher percentage HD riders in this group add the HD stereotype that HD are not safe or die more often.
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exskibum
~<>~<>~<>~<>~
I can't stand that "lifestyle" thing HD pushes or the attitude manifesting that lifestyle that some HD riders adopt, but I don't agree that it is the cause of the injury or death statistics, with one limited caveat. That caveat is that riding with a beanie helmet (or sans helmet) and riding without protective gear may generate higher numbers of fatalities and greater injuries as an indirect result of the image that lifestyle thing promotes. OTOH, they tend to ride slower than sport bike squids.
Other than that, I believe M. York noted the likely statistical explanation for your numbers: HD does get a disproportionate number of new riders. On top of that, they just have greater numbers on HDs from my observations (anecdotal, but so it seems). Unless I'm missing something in your citation of statistics, I think the greater fatality numbers may be more than accounted for by the greater HD numbers, especially a greater number of new riders.
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MikeYork5
Well-known member
Humility is a virtue -
Don't quite unstand the 'lifestyle' thing and how it relates to an inexperienced guy going out and busting himself up on his new Harley (bike). Yes, they may buy a Harley for the looks, sound, their buddies (older guys probably) have them, etc. But I believe there would be similar results if this same individual purchased any other type of cruiser (bike), inexperience I believe is largley the culprit. What about if this same individual chose to buy an an R1, a Gixer 1000 or a 1098 (shameless plug) for his first bike? I bet there would be about a 100% change of them busting themselves up. If you mean by the 'lifestyle' it allows one to go to the bar and get f----ed up while driving, then I guess the results could be attributed to the 'lifestyle'. Other than that I see no direct correlation between the 'lifestyle' and a newbie crashing his new bike, it is simply a function of lack of experience and getting in over your head, IMHO - I'm no expert either by the way on such things.
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I would surmise based on the available anecdotal data that the majority of crashes involving products produced The Motor Company® (aka Harley-Davidson® for those not familiar with the Milwaukee vernacular) also involve products produced by Budweiser, Miller Brewing, Jack Daniels and others in the adult beverage industry. Combined with the inexperience that many riders new to that brand display it is a recipe for disaster. With the average Harley-Davidson® accumulating a paltry 1,500 miles per year the riders have little time to practice drunk riding in an effort to become more skilled at the task that presents itself regularly.
At the other end I would tend to think speed would be the leading factor in "sportbike" crashes. The young tend to view themselves as invincible and unbreakable. At speeds well in excess of the posted the laws of physics will often explode that myth.
At the other end I would tend to think speed would be the leading factor in "sportbike" crashes. The young tend to view themselves as invincible and unbreakable. At speeds well in excess of the posted the laws of physics will often explode that myth.
odot
CC member # 17,----- DUP member # 7, mensa club m
I wonder what percentage of fjr riders have crashed compared to other types of motorcyces? Where is capt. amerika when we need his statistical input?
krashdragon
Well-known member
Guys, Guys!
The H-D "lifestyle" is BUYING THE DAMN BOTIQUE ****! It's the LOOK!
The ONLY riding that matters is what you can get printed in the Harley monthly magazines!
to them, 1500 miles is a HUGE trip!
The dang Harleys are so friggin expensive, that by the time most guys get around to buying them, they've either forgot how to ride or never did.
Soo they're mostly OLD!
The Jap bikes are way less expensive, so maybe the younger guys are getting a bit of experience...
ok, EXCEPT for the sportbike riders that regularly kill themselves.... but MOST of them are just kids!
My first bike was a used 1974 Yamaha 350 RD. $500 cash off a used car lot. <BG>
After a 100 miles ride, my hands would be numb for an hour.....
Ummmm yeah, I is old too....
Oh well....
mary
The H-D "lifestyle" is BUYING THE DAMN BOTIQUE ****! It's the LOOK!
The ONLY riding that matters is what you can get printed in the Harley monthly magazines!
to them, 1500 miles is a HUGE trip!
The dang Harleys are so friggin expensive, that by the time most guys get around to buying them, they've either forgot how to ride or never did.
Soo they're mostly OLD!
The Jap bikes are way less expensive, so maybe the younger guys are getting a bit of experience...
ok, EXCEPT for the sportbike riders that regularly kill themselves.... but MOST of them are just kids!
My first bike was a used 1974 Yamaha 350 RD. $500 cash off a used car lot. <BG>
After a 100 miles ride, my hands would be numb for an hour.....
Ummmm yeah, I is old too....
Oh well....
mary
Thug
A shy retiring flower in a Thug's exterior
Hmm the second link all the blak sheep went backwards to where they had been? interesting.....THe HD riders in the add said to me HD riders are black sheep are on a retrospective trip to somewhere?
evil_henchman
Well-known member
Crashes and tragedies on motorcycles happen. As has been stated, a kid on a crotch rocket has just as much chance of being road kill as an old fart who believes his hog can keep up with crotch rockets when both are inexperienced. Wrecks aren't brand exclusive and they're never funny or "amusing". :glare:
2004 NHTSA Highlights…
4008 motorcyclists died in crashes on U.S. roads in 2004, 9% of U.S. traffic fatalities for 2004.
Motorcycling deaths have climbed every year since 1997 along with the fatality rates per bike registered and per estimated mile ridden.
California and Florida lead the league in deaths, with 432 each in 2004.
Motorcyclists are about 32 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident than drivers of other vehicles.
Motorcyclists who get dead are more likely to have been drinking than those who die in other vehicles.
Approximately 76,000 motorcyclists were reported injured in crashes on U.S. roads in 2004.
Riders in the over-40 age group have trended steeply upward in the crash statistics during the past decade. That fact has been widely bemoaned and theorized about, but we don't know if those older riders are crashing more than other age groups per mile ridden. (Gee, over-40 riders, that’s the demographic madly buying Milwaukee iron, trended steeply upward in the last decade, coincides nicely with the meteoric rise in Harley-Davidson® sales. You think there might be a link there??? Hmmmmm???)
51% of motorcycle involved accidents were two vehicle accidents.
78% of the riders involved in two-vehicle fatal accidents were struck from the front, and only 6% were struck from the rear. In other words, seeing what's out in front of you and being seen by the drivers out there are critical. (Loud pipes, annoy your neighbors and make you look like a ********. See Doppler effect.)
24% of motorcyclists involved in fatal crashes did not have motorcycle licenses. That's about twice the rate for other vehicles. Consider it a warning to get trained and licensed and also not to loan your bike to your unlicensed friends.
As always, riding after drinking is extremely hazardous to your health. On weekend nights, 60% of riders who crashed and died without any outside help had blood-alcohol contents (BACs) of .08 grams per deciliter (g/dL) or greater. A third (34%) of all motorcyclists who died riding had some BAC, even though they weren't necessarily legally drunk.
A third of all fatally injured motorcyclists were thought to have been speeding prior to their demise.
That about says it all...ride safe, sober and above all else assume you have accidently engaged your cloaking device...
4008 motorcyclists died in crashes on U.S. roads in 2004, 9% of U.S. traffic fatalities for 2004.
Motorcycling deaths have climbed every year since 1997 along with the fatality rates per bike registered and per estimated mile ridden.
California and Florida lead the league in deaths, with 432 each in 2004.
Motorcyclists are about 32 times more likely to be involved in a fatal accident than drivers of other vehicles.
Motorcyclists who get dead are more likely to have been drinking than those who die in other vehicles.
Approximately 76,000 motorcyclists were reported injured in crashes on U.S. roads in 2004.
Riders in the over-40 age group have trended steeply upward in the crash statistics during the past decade. That fact has been widely bemoaned and theorized about, but we don't know if those older riders are crashing more than other age groups per mile ridden. (Gee, over-40 riders, that’s the demographic madly buying Milwaukee iron, trended steeply upward in the last decade, coincides nicely with the meteoric rise in Harley-Davidson® sales. You think there might be a link there??? Hmmmmm???)
51% of motorcycle involved accidents were two vehicle accidents.
78% of the riders involved in two-vehicle fatal accidents were struck from the front, and only 6% were struck from the rear. In other words, seeing what's out in front of you and being seen by the drivers out there are critical. (Loud pipes, annoy your neighbors and make you look like a ********. See Doppler effect.)
24% of motorcyclists involved in fatal crashes did not have motorcycle licenses. That's about twice the rate for other vehicles. Consider it a warning to get trained and licensed and also not to loan your bike to your unlicensed friends.
As always, riding after drinking is extremely hazardous to your health. On weekend nights, 60% of riders who crashed and died without any outside help had blood-alcohol contents (BACs) of .08 grams per deciliter (g/dL) or greater. A third (34%) of all motorcyclists who died riding had some BAC, even though they weren't necessarily legally drunk.
A third of all fatally injured motorcyclists were thought to have been speeding prior to their demise.
That about says it all...ride safe, sober and above all else assume you have accidently engaged your cloaking device...
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