Motorcycles passing through a red light

[SacramentoMike]

Nothing on that California link seems to offer any guidance. The local jurisdiction is supposed to install detectors that can sense motorcycles, but the website (and California law, apparently) don't say what a rider can do if they don't detect them? Plus the law cited only requires the upgrade "Upon the first placement of a traffic-actuated signal or replacement of the loop detector of a traffic-actuated signal," which means old ones that do not detect an m/c can stay until whenever they happen to be replaced, before the upgrade is mandated. Oh, and California and all the cities and counties therein (like everywhere else, I guess) are in budget meltdowns. Guess I won't hold my breath on this. Best policy probably is to wait, and then look CAREFULLY for oncoming traffic. And hidden LEOs. :lol:

Since a ride a KLR now, I get the problem more than I did on my big old FJR. Just another reason to miss it.

By the way, it strikes me that a "push button to cross" that would trigger a green arrow mounted within reach of a motorcyclist or bicyclist would be simpler and cheaper to install than digging up the whole roadway to put in an upgraded pressure-sensitive loop.

 

[rbentnail]

North Carolina approved a similar bill in 2007, summarized here. Note the words "provides an affirmative defense..."- this means you may still get a ticket. You have to prove your innocence in court. But if you are familiar with this law you may be able to talk your way out of one at the scene of the crime.

Red Light Exception for Motorcycles

S.L. 2007-260 (SB 1359) provides an affirmative defense to motorcycle operators who violate the statutory prohibition against entering an intersection when facing a red light, if the intersection is controlled by a vehicle-actuated traffic signal using an inductive loop and specified conditions are met. Actuated traffic signals alter their sequence based on demand and are activated by vehicle detectors. A loop detector works like a metal detector, reacting to the presence of metal. Depending on the sensitivity of a detector, the presence of a motorcycle may not trigger a change in the traffic signal.

North Carolina law provides that a vehicle approaching an intersection and facing a red light must stop and is prohibited from entering the intersection, other than to make a lawful right turn after coming to a complete stop. Running a red light in violation of the law is an infraction punishable by a fine of not more than $100, and the Division of Motor Vehicles assigns 3 points to a person's record for running a red light. This act provides an affirmative defense for a motorcycle operator who violates the statutory prohibition against entering an intersection when facing a red light, if the operator shows all of the following:

- The operator came to a complete stop at the red light.

- The intersection was controlled by a vehicle-actuated traffic signal using an inductive loop to activate the signal.

- No other motor vehicle entitled to have the right of way was at, or approaching, the intersection.

- No pedestrians were attempting to cross at, or near, the intersection.

- The operator waited a minimum of three minutes at the red light before entering the intersection.

This act becomes effective December 1, 2007, and applies to offenses committed on or after that date. (WGR)

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I've never had any problem legally running a red light, never even been stopped for it. I must also say that when the county and state DOT offices are notified of an insensitive sensor, it is usually adjusted within 2 weeks and an email received to thank me for the notification and to please let them know of any further problems with it. They've really been very good about helping out around here.

 

[Mike P]

So how does this apply at intersections with light cams?

 

[McRide]

... would be simpler and cheaper to install than digging up the whole roadway to put in an upgraded pressure-sensitive loop.

Yes, but then this is California and what's the big deal about another billion in the hole? I mean really... so what!

 

[rbentnail]

So how does this apply at intersections with light cams?

I have no idea how the light cams work, whether they are a snapshot or a video or what. But, if you follow the letter of the law, might not the camera help prove that you waited a full 3 minutes before proceeding?

 

[canyonman]

The past few years here in the metro St Louis area they have been replacing the ground loops with a camera based system that using computers will recognize when an object enters a specific traffic lane and will trigger the signals accordingly. they seem to work quite well. these are not the same as the red light cameras. we have those too. they use high powered strobes and take snap shots of the vehcle and its plates then mail you an award. lotta people fighting those right now.

If you go through the red for any reason and one of these are there you will get a ticket.

they have signs posted alerting you to their presence. it is easy to tell the two different kinds of systems apart just by looking at them.

 

[rbentnail]

Oh, I get it. Living in Boondocks, NC I've never heard of light cams before. Hell, we still have some lights that are simple timer controlled- 2 minutes this way, 2 minutes that way- regardless of traffic conditions.

If I lived in an area where light cams are used, in my state of course, and I'd been experiencing problems with them, I'd be contacting my state reps to have that added to the law, since the NC statute specifically says, "an inductive loop" sensor. I think you'd be SOL if you went thru a light cam controlled one.

 

[FJRBluesman]

A handful of states have adopted various red-light laws relating to motorcycles in the past few years and others are considering it.

Some will suggest buying a magnet may help, but I think there's a very fair question that why should cyclists have to go out of their way to do something that basic traffic engineering should cover.

And various police in states without laws usually recommend taking a right and finding an alternate route, however when asked if they wouldn't get ticketed for crossing lanes when they're involuntarily camped in the left turn pocket...they usually are mum on whether that action would attract a police officer or not...let alone if it's as unsafe as going through the intersection that's clear.

And there's a bill in my home state of Washington that's been tried the past 3 or 4 sessions, but hasn't passed principally because the Washington State Patrol hasn't gotten on board.

QUOTE (BikerGeek99 @ Jan 22 2009, 05:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I read a suggestion on another forum of pulling up to the light and putting down your side stand to trip the sensor for a light.
Any thoughts on that one? I haven't tried it. I just wait and run the light if conditions warrant.
It works great. It kills your engine because of the integrated sidestand switch we have on FJRs and you stand there on a quiet bike muttering to yourself sheepishly wondering if anybody saw it.

The two times I've tried it (not smart enough to learn the first time the bike would die) the light never changed. Pulling up on the corner of a sensor where the wire does a 90 degree bend sometimes makes a difference. Whenever I find an intersection that doesn't sense a motorcycle I contact the jurisdiction that controls the intersection and tell them about it.

In talking with them I also learned that like other technologies sensors continue to improve. They suggested more modern sensor loops will have round score marks in the pavement and have better sensitivity. And some communities use cameras with computers instead of sensors.

While in the sunny PNW (Tukwila, WA) this week, yes it was nice Monday thru Thursday a little rain but nice for the PNW, I saw a segment on the news addressing Washington's legislatuire looking at this subject.

In a nut shell if your bike didn't trigger the sensor you must wait one full cycle then proceed only if safe to do so. Of course this has many folks in an uproar.

I did find the piece novel and thought provoking.

I usually 90% of the time can get the sensor to trigger on the giant FJR steamboat. Maybe the Cali sensors are hypersensitive. Many of our sensors are circular and I try to get to the side to get as mush sensor under the bikes frame etc. I do the same on hexagon ones too.

Interesting to see how this goes.

 

[SkooterG]

ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT!!!!

 

[ionbeam]

Straight from Zombie land, read this.

 

[FJRBluesman]

ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT!!!!

Straight from Zombie land, read this.

DANG!

I was just going to post it, as I never remember this form the forum, but... I'm no noob.... at least I searched and found the zombie thread and added to it, as it is a current event in Washington.

Zombie threads LIVE!

 

[Bounce]

 

[wfooshee]

I've never understood the "wait a full cycle, then go." If your bike doesn't trip the sensor, THE LIGHT NEVER CYCLES!!!! So how do you wait a cycle?

Stupid lawyers and their stupid word games.

 

[FJRBluesman]

I've never understood the "wait a full cycle, then go." If your bike doesn't trip the sensor, THE LIGHT NEVER CYCLES!!!! So how do you wait a cycle?
Stupid lawyers and their stupid word games.

Most signals I know of are at a 4-way stop so.... If you don't trigger it in a left turn lane for example, and traffic going straight etc turns red, then cross traffic goes, then the light turns red for them, and it's back your left turn lane to go and it doesn't trigger, then you're good to go and treat it as a yield on green. BTW - Great run on sentence I just did.

 

[wfooshee]

Unless there is no other traffic. Happens all the time. I know of 8 lights downtown here that I just treat as stop signs, because I don't trigger them. Most are good one direction but not another, too. Late at night, or on a Saturday, I could be there 25 minutes waiting for someone to cycle it from another direction.

I have no fear of getting hauled off to the Big House for it, either.