Motorcyclist Magazine fired Dexter Ford

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I don't think much of Motorcyclist magazine, I especially don't care for Catterson as editor, and I can easily live without Ford's insights.
I've had DOT and ECE modular helmets with movable chin bars, but all of my full face helmets dating back over 40 years have been Snell certified. The one accident where I needed a helmet was a circumstance where the shell needed to be as tough as possible against intrusion. I ended up with a punctured shell, but I was lucky that the intrusion didn't make it to my skull. A soft shell would have likely lead to a serious head injury. With my Snell helmet of the day, I walked away with no head trauma whatsoever.

I let Motorcyclist go a couple of years ago. I don't miss it. In this case though, it is easy to see why advertisers would pull their ads, and I probably would too.

If you believe in the Snell Foundation's commitment to consistency and quality, and if you believe that the 2010 standard is a step forward in helmet evolution, then why would you want to spend your advertising dollars with a magazine whose editorial staff is on record advising that you would be better off not buying a Snell certified helmet?
I'm just asking -- did you read the article or listen to the podcast?

...

Thanks for bringing us back from the hijack abyss...
Yes, not only did I listen to the audio interview and read the article, I did these things before I posted.

That was the whole point of my post. The very aspect of the earlier Snell standards that he complains about (the tendency toward a strong shell that won't fail) is what saved my head. And second, if you read the punch line for his article, he suggests that you might be better off buying a non Snell helmet. I really think the idea that average motorcyclists can pick a good helmet by eliminating Snell certified helmets is at best naive, and at worst irresponsible and inflammatory.

While there may be some good non Snell helmets out there, the idea that a Chinese manufacturer of helmets that retail in the US for $79.95 has mastered the art of perfect helmet design and manufacturing technology is ludicrous. If they produced a few samples of one model that worked well in his tests nearly 5 years ago, this would hardly seem like a starting point to make the assertion that non Snell helmets are better than Snell helmets.

I think Ford is a classic example of a guy who has a little bit of information gleaned from a few "experts," and who then becomes an expert himself by virtue of his bully pulpit.

The best line of the whole interview was something to the effect "If you tell me what kind of accident you're going to have, I'll tell you which helmet is the best." I know this was stated tongue in cheek, but its still true.

Given that I don't know what sort of accident I might have, I've migrated away from my brief love affair with modular (movable chin bar) helmets. I want a strong shell that will protect against abrasion and intrusion. I want a design with good energy absorbing capabilities to reduce shock loading on my head. I am a stickler for the fit of the crown. And I go through the ritual of cheek pad changes to assure the best fit. My ability to see out of the helmet, both directly through the face shield and indirectly via peripheral vision are really important to me, and for my eyes, there is a huge difference in the optical quality of the face shields from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I NEVER ride without a helmet because even a cheap piece of Chinese crap on your head will cut down on road rash in a crash, but that's another thread. ( A couple of weeks ago in our neck of the woods a woman riding her new H-D 50 yards out of her driveway without head protection panicked and hit the ditch when a truck came down the road, and she is now living with what appear to be lifelong consequences due to head trauma.)

Since tests to certify that a helmet meets DOT standards are on the honor system, and since tests to certify that a helmet meets the Snell standards are conducted by Snell, I'm going with Snell. I don't believe that manufacturers can be trusted to do their own certification testing. When companies need to cut costs, they cut corners. Snell can't guarantee that they won't cut corners after certification, but at least Snell certifications means that someone from the outside took a look at what they were doing at a critical point in the cycle.

FWIW, I'm sticking with Snell ..... I think that it is reckless to recommend to others that they are better off with a non Snell helmet compared to a Snell helmet. Keep in mind that if a helmet passes the Snell standard, it is also acceptable under the DOT rules. A helmet that passes DOT but can't pass Snell could miss the mark in any number of ways, so the idea that not passing Snell is a desirable specification is pretty irresponsible.

One other thing. We have no way of knowing why Ford was fired. He says it was because of advertiser pressure, but I think Motorcyclist is in trouble right now, and it could be that he has been "let go" for a host of reasons, the most palatable to him being the idea that somehow he was this great white knight who was targeted by the evil helmet manufacturers for calling them out on crummy helmet design. The real situation is probably more complex than this. It is in Ford's interest to define the fight in terms favorable to his position, and that's exactly what he appears to be doing.

 
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In response to El Toro's on topic post:

I happen to agree with your position on helmets and testing. I would prefer that my helmets be DOT, and either Snell or ECE certified (preference to the latter). And now a helmet can pass both Snell 2010 AND ECE tests (while that was apparently not possible in the past).

However, I do not agree with a periodical firing a long time writer because an editorial written and published in a completely different publication raised the hackles of Snell Foundation and subsequently the helmet companies that are keen on clearing out their obsolete stock.

Assuming for the moment that this is actually what happened, and not just some sort of fabrication by the writer, wouldn't that mean that the advertisers have editorial veto power over the periodical? By controlling who they have on their staff that would surely be true. And in that case, how can we as readers expect to ever get anything approaching fair and unbiased reporting?

The next question is, how much of this goes on in other magazines behind the scenes? What about in the other medias that also receive their primary revenue from advertisers?

 
In response to El Toro's on topic post:
I happen to agree with your position on helmets and testing. I would prefer that my helmets be DOT, and either Snell or ECE certified (preference to the latter). And now a helmet can pass both Snell 2010 AND ECE tests (while that was apparently not possible in the past).

However, I do not agree with a periodical firing a long time writer because an editorial written and published in a completely different publication raised the hackles of Snell Foundation and subsequently the helmet companies that are keen on clearing out their obsolete stock.

Assuming for the moment that this is actually what happened, and not just some sort of fabrication by the writer, wouldn't that mean that the advertisers have editorial veto power over the periodical? By controlling who they have on their staff that would surely be true. And in that case, how can we as readers expect to ever get anything approaching fair and unbiased reporting?

The next question is, how much of this goes on in other magazines behind the scenes? What about in the other medias that also receive their primary revenue from advertisers?

Well and succinctly stated.

 
Yes, not only did I listen to the audio interview and read the article, I did these things before I posted.It always amazes me how two people can read/hear/see something and get different understandings of the experience. But that's the purpose of discourse, to glean the closest truth from the collective experience.

That was the whole point of my post. The very aspect of the earlier Snell standards that he complains about (the tendency toward a strong shell that won't fail) is what saved my head. And second, if you read the punch line for his article, he suggests that you might be better off buying a non Snell helmet. I really think the idea that average motorcyclists can pick a good helmet by eliminating Snell certified helmets is at best naive, and at worst irresponsible and inflammatory.

I heard him say that was his personal preference in the podcast, not in the article. He also pointed out for those choosing to buy a SNELL helmet, how they can find where the manufacturers hid the certification standard (under the padding). Why would the manufacturers want to do that? I seem to remember wearing helmets decades ago that were SNELL certified, and the certification year was on the SNELL label on the outside of the helmet -- but my memory may not be accurate on that.

While there may be some good non Snell helmets out there, the idea that a Chinese manufacturer of helmets that retail in the US for $79.95 has mastered the art of perfect helmet design and manufacturing technology is ludicrous. If they produced a few samples of one model that worked well in his tests nearly 5 years ago, this would hardly seem like a starting point to make the assertion that non Snell helmets are better than Snell helmets.

A valid point. The data is getting old. But why assume Japanese manufacturers got it right? DELETED, Damn! I got sucked in again :D

I think Ford is a classic example of a guy who has a little bit of information gleaned from a few "experts," and who then becomes an expert himself by virtue of his bully pulpit.

Discounting expert opinions based on data due to personal experience is tricky. It is also wandering into the "my helmet is better than your helmet argument I didn't want to get into. I'm afraid I got sucked into it a bit. I prefer the helmet that fits well and I'll wear.

The best line of the whole interview was something to the effect "If you tell me what kind of accident you're going to have, I'll tell you which helmet is the best." I know this was stated tongue in cheek, but its still true.

He was quoting Harry Hurt.

Given that I don't know what sort of accident I might have, I've migrated away from my brief love affair with modular (movable chin bar) helmets. I want a strong shell that will protect against abrasion and intrusion. I want a design with good energy absorbing capabilities to reduce shock loading on my head. I am a stickler for the fit of the crown. And I go through the ritual of cheek pad changes to assure the best fit. My ability to see out of the helmet, both directly through the face shield and indirectly via peripheral vision are really important to me, and for my eyes, there is a huge difference in the optical quality of the face shields from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I NEVER ride without a helmet because even a cheap piece of Chinese crap on your head will cut down on road rash in a crash, but that's another thread. ( A couple of weeks ago in our neck of the woods a woman riding her new H-D 50 yards out of her driveway without head protection panicked and hit the ditch when a truck came down the road, and she is now living with what appear to be lifelong consequences due to head trauma.)

Since tests to certify that a helmet meets DOT standards are on the honor system, and since tests to certify that a helmet meets the Snell standards are conducted by Snell, I'm going with Snell. I don't believe that manufacturers can be trusted to do their own certification testing. When companies need to cut costs, they cut corners. Snell can't guarantee that they won't cut corners after certification, but at least Snell certifications means that someone from the outside took a look at what they were doing at a critical point in the cycle.

FWIW, I'm sticking with Snell ..... I think that it is reckless to recommend to others that they are better off with a non Snell helmet compared to a Snell helmet. Keep in mind that if a helmet passes the Snell standard, it is also acceptable under the DOT rules. A helmet that passes DOT but can't pass Snell could miss the mark in any number of ways, so the idea that not passing Snell is a desirable specification is pretty irresponsible.

Go for it. We all live with our choices. BTW I agree a helmet meeting multiple standards is likely to be better. But I don't know that since that particular helmet has never been tested, and I hope never is. Science says any helmet is better than none. Science says some may be better in certain situations than others due to the amount of force transmitted to the skull. Lets hope the technology continues to evolve and improve.

But for a moment, let's assume you are correct, and Ford was expressing personal opinion, and not reporting fact as known. Then assume his assertion is correct that he was fired due to the status quo in helmet design was being threatened by his expressing that opinion. Is it correct for him to be fired by his employer? Can we now trust anything written in the magazine that follows the opinions of their advertisers? Why not an editorial piece decrying Ford's opinions, a rebuke in public by the editors, but not dead silence and firing him? If they have a defensable position, why not state it? All threads started on their website asking about or commenting on his departure are deleted. Why?

One other thing. We have no way of knowing why Ford was fired. He says it was because of advertiser pressure, but I think Motorcyclist is in trouble right now, and it could be that he has been "let go" for a host of reasons, the most palatable to him being the idea that somehow he was this great white knight who was targeted by the evil helmet manufacturers for calling them out on crummy helmet design. The real situation is probably more complex than this. It is in Ford's interest to define the fight in terms favorable to his position, and that's exactly what he appears to be doing.

Maybe there are other reasons for his firing, but right now it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck. (That is just my opinion ;) ). I hope he has those emails. It would be interesting to know if he is ever sued. Maybe he is just a disgruntled employee, but the ethical questions remain.
 
Bet he's got a phone in there too!
:jester:
He's probably even got an electric starter on his damn bike. Oh wait, mine does too these days. Man, do I miss my Norton Atlas!
I bet your back and knees don't miss that kickstarter Don ...

And Bust, they have these newfangled phones called cell phones and portable phones. They can be anywhere ya want. Hell you can get barnyard phone sex in the crapper if you want. So I hear...

 
Uh Shiny, My Dearest, both Niehart - Dave and I share the same physiological and psychological condition: We are both freaking R - E - T - I - R - E - D; for example, all we do all day long, is ride our many motorcycles and hang out at Starbuck's or Applebee's, looking for Cougars & Pumas! To kill time in between prey sightings, we occupy our ourselves reading moto mags!
Please explain the difference between a cougar and puma before we move any further. I thought they were the same thing...
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puma johnny80s, so we don't confuse someone here on our Forum, won't mention his name but his initials are SPU, examine definition of the Puma here, then contrast it to the Cougar definition link!

I might as well clear the air on this subject matter right now, Niehart and I aren't adverse to hunting down sabor tooths; 45+!
That is too funny.
You guys are like trying to deal with my 12-year-old son with attention problems and new hormones... :p :lol:
Hey I'm not 12!

 
Hey I'm not 12!
I was doing a comparo like they do in the motomags. Can't trust comparos as they are biased so don't get your panties in a bunch. :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

However, if you were paying me and I changed my opinion so I wouldn't offend you, others would have to question my integrity.

Therefore, I say tough ****.

:lol:

 
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In response to El Toro's on topic post:
I happen to agree with your position on helmets and testing. I would prefer that my helmets be DOT, and either Snell or ECE certified (preference to the latter). And now a helmet can pass both Snell 2010 AND ECE tests (while that was apparently not possible in the past).

However, I do not agree with a periodical firing a long time writer because an editorial written and published in a completely different publication raised the hackles of Snell Foundation and subsequently the helmet companies that are keen on clearing out their obsolete stock.

Assuming for the moment that this is actually what happened, and not just some sort of fabrication by the writer, wouldn't that mean that the advertisers have editorial veto power over the periodical? By controlling who they have on their staff that would surely be true. And in that case, how can we as readers expect to ever get anything approaching fair and unbiased reporting?

The next question is, how much of this goes on in other magazines behind the scenes? What about in the other medias that also receive their primary revenue from advertisers?
I wouldn't carry any water for Catterson, so please feel free to be indignant about his conduct of the magazine's business. It will surprise me if he can keep it afloat, with or without helmet advertisers.

Regarding the reason for this particular termination, we've heard one side. There are always two sides.

Some one else made the comment that if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. My opinion is that the whole of Motorcyclist talks like a duck.... and so I made a personal decision to swim like a duck away. It took them over a year to stop sending me the magazine after my paid subscription ran out.

Magazines keep you on their rolls after the end of your subscription in order to maintain their circulation above the threshold where they would have to discount their advertising rates. Sport Rider, also related to Motorcyclist, has had me on their rolls now for nearly two years after the end of my paid subscription. They don't even bother to send me renewal notices anymore. They just keep sending the magazine.

You folks are debating these magazines and their content as though they matter. If you want to have a magazine that isn't influenced by advertisers, you'll have to start it yourself, and you'll be lucky to find subscribers at the rate you'll have to charge to break even. The journals that I subscribe to that don't accept advertising dollars all cost over $100/yr, and a year typically has 6 or fewer issues.

Merry Christmas :drinks: :yahoo:

 
A very valid point.

How many of us would be willing to pay for the true cost of any publication that does not accept advertising dollars?

Generally speaking, that is what you are doing when you buy a book. There really aren't too many other similar media situations other than trade journals maybe, and even they run trade based ads in most of them. One observation is that not too many people read books anymore. I guess we prefer our media to be filtered and biased by advertisers?

I don't think this is too far off topic to be relevant. When cable TV was first promoted, I recall it being commercial free for a very short time. The idea was that the subscribers were going to pay enough in their cable fees to support the added cable channel programming with the advantage being no ads. It of course didn't last long as the amount that people were willing to pay for commercial free was no match for what the advertisers were willing to pay for their commercials to be aired.

And now even the premium cable movie channels run advertisements between their flicks.

sigh... :glare:

 
https://www.amazon.com/Motorrad/dp/B0001EK8FW If you want a motorcycle magazine that is completely unbiased, totally objective, extremely technical and does not pay any attention to advertisers influence: You want to subscribe to Motorrad!

But there are 3 issues you must consider: 1) Costs $150 a year, but you get 26 issues. 2) It arrives in Chandler, AZ two weeks after if is delivered in Heidelberg, Deutschland. 3) You must have a working knowledge of German; Jawohl, Arnie!!!

 
https://www.amazon.com/Motorrad/dp/B0001EK8FW If you want a motorcycle magazine that is completely unbiased, totally objective, extremely technical and does not pay any attention to advertisers influence: You want to subscribe to Motorrad!
But there are 3 issues you must consider: 1) Costs $150 a year, but you get 26 issues. 2) It arrives in Chandler, AZ two weeks after if is delivered in Heidelberg, Deutschland. 3) You must have a working knowledge of German; Jawohl, Arnie!!!
Does Motorrad cater mainly to the Deutsche built machines, or do they give good treatment to the Nipponese bikes as well?

Ich kenne ein bischen Deutsche von meine zwei jahre HS German von 35 Jahren...maybe I could learn a little bit more from reading this Mag. I'd ask to borrow yours beemerdons, but you have revealed your secondary use for this magazine. :eek:

:)

 
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Wheatie, if you had two years of High School German, even if it was 35 years ago, I would think you would still be able to follow along with the articles. I need to have my Lonely Planet Phrasebook/Dictionary at my side when I read, because I only get a chance to speak German when I return to the Germanic countries. Or Bikesniffer - Alfred comes on line here!

True, my Motorrad does get read while Papa Chuy is on "The Imperial Porcelain Throne" each morning. Do you have a good used Book and Magazine store in Wheaton? There certainly must be hundreds in Chicago! At Bookman's here in Mesa, they sell used editions of Motorrad for $3 an issue; half of what each unit costs with a subscription. Pick one up and see if you can translate it, would be fun on a snowy Illinois night and your Deutsch will come back to you! Bist du fertig?

Motorrad covers any two wheeled vehicle made anywhere in the world. Bikesniffer - Alfred knew I was interested in the new BMW K1300GT and sent articles on how much trouble Motorrad encountered in their test ride of the K Bike. Wunderbar!

 
Wheatie, if you had two years of High School German, even if it was 35 years ago, I would think you would still be able to follow along with the articles. I need to have my Lonely Planet Phrasebook/Dictionary at my side when I read, because I only get a chance to speak German when I return to the Germanic countries. Or Bikesniffer - Alfred comes on line here!
True, my Motorrad does get read while Papa Chuy is on "The Imperial Porcelain Throne" each morning. Do you have a good used Book and Magazine store in Wheaton? There certainly must be hundreds in Chicago! At Bookman's here in Mesa, they sell used editions of Motorrad for $3 an issue; half of what each unit costs with a subscription. Pick one up and see if you can translate it, would be fun on a snowy Illinois night and your Deutsch will come back to you! Bist du fertig?

Motorrad covers any two wheeled vehicle made anywhere in the world. Bikesniffer - Alfred knew I was interested in the new BMW K1300GT and sent articles on how much trouble Motorrad encountered in their test ride of the K Bike. Wunderbar!
I'll check around...but I doubt it around Wheaton. The bookstores around here tend to be the new book selling, high priced, yuppified, coffee sipping variety.

Plus...if I look at old Motorrads around here...I would have no guarantee that they aren't old bathroom visiting, recycled for used magazine sales... :eek: Kinda like looking for used Penthouse magazines. :D

 
https://www.ranchmagazine.com/ Wheatie, one thing I can certainly guarantee you: If you're in the Used Book and Magazine store in Owosso, Michigan-DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, pick up a copy of Ranch and Rural Living magazine from the shelves.

When I owned a five acre "rancho" in Atascadero, CA many years ago, I subscribed to this magazine; and it is a neat little magazine about small farms and ranches. But you can rest assured, if you buy a used copy of this mag in Owosso: All of the sheep and goat articles pages will be glued together by daddy jam. Oh yucko, Bustanut joker would have "pre-used" it!!!

 
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https://www.ranchmagazine.com/ Wheatie, one thing I can certainly guarantee you: If you're in the Used Book and Magazine store in Owosso, Michigan-DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT, pick up a copy of Ranch and Rural Living magazine from the shelves.
When I owned a five acre "rancho" in Atascadero, CA many years ago, I subscribed to this magazine; and it is a neat little magazine about small farms and ranches. But you can rest assured, if you buy a used copy of this mag in Owosso: All of the sheep and goat articles pages will be glued together by daddy jam. Oh yucko, Bustanut joker would have "pre-used" it!!!

Hey fuker! send those copys to me ya tool. For some reason they don't send 'em here no moe..

Fact is, you can't even buy them in the bookstore anymore.. Hey, I didn't stick all the pages together. Goats are nasty, disrespectful, gossip mongering animals. I don't do 'em no more.

So there! :blum:

:jester:

 
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