Mounting a Jazz Fuel Cell

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Udjeni

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I have a 4 gal. gravity-feed Jazz fuel cell that I sometimes mount on my '07. I have a few issues with it and before I go back to the guy that made the mounting plate for me, I want to ask for opinions here.

Here's the current setup:

765690419_sncQG-M.jpg


The mounting plate viewed from the top, rear:

765690565_CjoW7-M.jpg


And upside down, from the rear:

765690577_NChbW-M.jpg


In the above photo you can see a mod that was made after initial manufacture: I wanted the front of the tank slightly raised so more of the fuel will drain out the back, so the two pillars were lengthend slightly.

Here you can see where to additional mounting points were made in the bracket (is that what it's called?) under the seat.

765690425_b7bNr-M.jpg


The main issues with the current design is that it is too low. My initial briefing to the fabricator was that I wanted the fuel cell as low as possible. However, the current position has lead the following issues:

  • It's difficult to remove the front seat if the bracket is in place.
  • I lose storage space under the rear seat
  • The cell damages the pillion handrails (hence the duct tape you can see there)
  • An air lock sometimes develop in the fuel line (see (*) below)
  • The fuel line from the cell to the tap is too short/the angle is too acute with the result the line/connector into the tank is under stress and develops a slow leak.
I've come to the conclusion that I was overly paranoid about the height. Filled to the brim the cell weighs way less than a pillion and the foam does its job to prevent sloshing. So what I'd like is for the tank to be raised to at least this height:

765690648_hGFsi-M.jpg


This would give one options to release the stress on the rear fuel fitting (either by lowering the tap position or lengthening the fuel line - currently there isn't room to lengthen it). This would also provide some storage area underneath. What I can't quite figure out is the best way to raise it, especially if I want some (preferrably dry) storage space underneath the cell.

I had a look at Warchild's photos and it gives me some ideas, but I was wondering if anyone has more detailed photos/pictures of mounting plates/brackets that leaves the cell a bit higher?

(*) Re: air lock. I was doing a long ride and after a couple of fill-ups the aux. cell stopped draining properly into the main tank. At my destination an engineering friend, who's mechanical/troubleshooting abilities are way beyond mine had a look at the setup and came to the conclusion that an air lock had formed due to the routing of the fuel line (the line had shifted and went slightly upwards after leaving the tap between the cell and the main tank). We corrected that and that seems to have taken care of the issue... for a while. I recently had another case of intermittant draining and after having read this thread I am wondering if it is an air lock, although, I did not experience the problems that thread either.

 
You have your tank mounted upside down.

To get more clearance between the grab rails, it should me mounted like this:

DSC04153.JPG
[SIZE=36pt] [/SIZE]
DSC04157.JPG


...and consider an auxiliary fuel pump.

sheesh!

:D

edit: I'll post photos showing the flush mount JAZ cap and the mounting system for this set-up in a few weeks. I'm kinda busy with another project right now ;)

 
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...and consider an auxiliary fuel pump.
Thanks, but no thanks. :) Will only do as a very last resort.
Interesting... I'm looking at the same tank (but upside down from yours) and my reading seems to suggest very little issues with fuel transfer pumps. Do you have a technical reason for not wanting a pump or is it just your personal preference?

 
Interesting... I'm looking at the same tank (but upside down from yours)
How do you fill it if it is upside down?

Do you have a technical reason for not wanting a pump or is it just your personal preference?
Personal preference. I want to keep it simple - less things to fail (in theory :) ). Don't want the complication of having to remember to turn off the pump and don't want yet another switch. Where would the pump go? I often take the aux. tank off and want to do it easily.

 
How do you fill it if it is upside down?
The same way. The holes for the fill cap are just drilled on a different side that's all.

"Top" and "Bottom" is semantics.

I will post photos of the set-up FJRGuy is referring to in a few weeks.

I want to keep it simple - less things to fail (in theory :) ). Don't want the complication of having to remember to turn off the pump and don't want yet another switch. Where would the pump go? I often take the aux. tank off and want to do it easily.
"Keeping it simple" in my opinion is not having to deal with air in the line.

And if you buy the right fuel pump, you don't really have to worry too much if you occasionally forget to turn it off. Solenoid auxiliary fuel pumps rock; are king; are da-bomb; (I like 'em)

One last point, you could mount the fuel pump to the same flange as your tank if want to be able to remove it, but there are all sorts of places to put one if you want to leave it mounted on the bike.

edit: These didn't start out as my opinions. I learned them from smarter fellers.

 
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I will post photos of the set-up FJRGuy is referring to in a few weeks.
Looking forward to it.

"Keeping it simple" in my opinion is not having to deal with air in the line.
I'll agree with that, but the ideal is to have both: no aux. pump plus no air in the line. :)

edit: These didn't start out as my opinions. I learned them from smarter fellers.
Yup, sure, but I thought Warchild was kind of a smart feller? ;)
Oh, and Canadian FJR, the factors that prevent me from mounting mine like yours is that

  • I often need the topbox together with the fuel cell, and
  • My regular pillion needs to stop by the time the main tank is empty, so a fuel cell is a waste of effort when she's riding along (and besides, in that case I really need the topbox) . :)
 
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If you don't get a solution to this problem very soon, I recommend you attach something to the tank itself where it is rubbing on the pillion handles. The duct tape on the handles will protect the finish on the handles, but it won't stop you from wearing a hole in the tank.

 
I'm doing the same exercise with my new '09. The four gallon Jaz cell in the photos is the same one I gave away two years ago and replaced with a five gallon Jaz. I'm trying to get the five gallon in place but it's going to be a bit harder because of the sump at the discharge. I've got it mocked up with the discharge to the front about 3" from the back of the seat with a 90 degree AN fitting to a hose barb then off to the valve.

More photos would be appreciated as well as any word from someone using the five gallon Jaz cell.

 
Interesting... I'm looking at the same tank (but upside down from yours)
How do you fill it if it is upside down?
With a gas pump! :p (Joe beat me to the real answer. He's one of those "smarter fellers" for me! :D )

Where would the pump go? I often take the aux. tank off and want to do it easily.
I'm looking at mounting it to the Mounting plate tucked in behind the cell. Single hose quick disconnect and a couple of bolts to remove it all... that's the plan anyway! ;)

Mine flows very well at this height.
But Yeeesh! :blink: is that ugly! IMHO

More photos would be appreciated as well as any word from someone using the five gallon Jaz cell.
Don't know of anyone using a 5 Gallon as most want to stay within the IBA volume limits. But thinking about it, do any Jaz PE cells meet IBA mounting requirements? I thought I read that fuel cells had to be bolted to the frame. Don't know if strapping a fuel cell to a mounting plate that is bolted to the frame would cut it.
 
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IronMaiden has the same fuel cell as you, so you might want to talk to her. Unfortunately she's on vacation right now so I don't know if she'll be looking on here. She actually has her cell mounted the other way where the slope is towards the back. She doesn't have a topcase, but if she did this would give her more clearance for the lid to open up. I think GoFar also has the same fuel cell too, so you may want to hit him up too.

I've got a Gen I FJR, but have my aux cell mounted in the pillon seat location. I've come to the conclusion that you're not going to get waterproof storage there. There are too many little holes (including some drain holes that are going to let water in. On my bike in heavy rain water will get under it, but it doesn't "flood" the area. I'm OK with that because I keep my tools that are under there in a toiletry bag which is semi waterproof. The other things I keep under there are my air compressor and a few misc items like a length of fuel line, zip ties, etc that will not be ruined by being in a moist area.

I can take some pics of my mount and fuel cell if you like, but its very similar to Warchilds. Plus its also a Gen I.

 
I certainly don't expect a dry storage area. I curently have a tyre guage and tyre repair kit under the rear seat. I'd probably move the compressor from under the front seat to under the aux. tank on a long trip (if I can). If it's not too much trouble, pictures would be great, especially of the mounting setup even if it is a Gen I.

 
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How do you fill it if it is upside down?
The same way. The holes for the fill cap are just drilled on a different side that's all.

"Top" and "Bottom" is semantics.

I will post photos of the set-up FJRGuy is referring to in a few weeks.
O.K. I drilled the holes and mounted the fill cap. I also cut the hole for the vent. Look closely at the corner of the tank near the flush mount fill cap.

DSC05105.JPG


Gravity feed zealots should also like this set-up because it's easy to raise the tank. For every inch rise in elevation, the tank moves an inch back. It looks like three inches rise would yield three inches of storage underneath and three extra inches for extra ***.

 
So I am assuming one can can get these cells without any holes cut in them? That is the part that I missed (wasn't an option from where I got mine), else how did you close up the hole on the other side. :)

 
So I am assuming one can can get these cells without any holes cut in them? That is the part that I missed (wasn't an option from where I got mine), else how did you close up the hole on the other side. :)
Short answer is "Yes!" but I'm still waiting to hear on J2Ls supplier as my local shop isn't interested in bringing it in this way for me.

 
So I am assuming one can can get these cells without any holes cut in them? That is the part that I missed (wasn't an option from where I got mine), else how did you close up the hole on the other side. :)
Call JAZ Products <Link> Order the Econo Fuel Rail Cell. The color choices are black or natural and it can be ordered with foam or without. P/N 290-104-01 is the black, 4 gallon Econo Rail Fuel Cell, with foam. Specify that you want all of the fittings, but you don't want any of the holes cut. They will be very happy to fill your order. Also, if you have your heart set on a filler neck instead of a flush mount fill cap, ask for that substitution too.

There will be one small hole in the tank. Evidently it's the hole needed to fill the rotational mold or something. It's on the bottom of the tank in the photos. (Top of the tank if conventionally mounted). It's about 1/2" diameter. I plan to mount a fitting there. I'm still looking for one that will allow the tank to fully drain. If I don't find one I can always make one.

JAZ Econo Fuel Rail Cell <Link>

JAZ Fuel Cell filler Necks <Link>

I plan on putting a kit together with the mounting brackets and the tanks fully assembled. I have to finish my aluminum 4.8 gallon tank first.

 
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