MPG changes due to 10%Ethanol mandate?

[El Toro]

I hope it does not damage our fuel system for vehicles not designed for Ethanol usage... only time will tell.

Well, it is already starting.....

From the article: "Just as boats may sit and the separation of the gas and ethanol in the tanks can lead to problems, there are reports that homeowners are facing similar problems with their lawn equipment.

A second issue with ethanol is that it cleans everything it has contact with, from whatever point it is mixed in with gas at the refinery or tanker and it carries all those contaminants to a boat’s fuel tank, said Rush of San Carlos Marine. Those contaminants can clog fuel filters and the injection system.

“You will limp in if you can even get home,” Rush said.

“A lot of the repair bills come from the intrusion of water and contaminants in the water,” said Kaestner of Matanzas Marine.

There also are reports that ethanol can cause polyester resin in older fiberglass fuel tanks to degrade to create a gunk that clogs the fuel system."

https://www.naplesnews.com/news/2008/nov/22...say-ethanol-ha/ (For the Full Article)

There have been reports of Engines having to be replaced since the Water drawn in by the Ethanol has Rusted the Pistons/Cylinder walls.

Keep very careful watch with your engines this year.

All of the above is consistent with what I know about adding ethanol to gasoline. And we can add the observation that when we make ethanol a major component of our fuel strategy, we are setting ourselves up for the whims of the weather. Instead of worrying about an oil embargo, we can worry about drought. I know that my crop yields are strongly impacted by the weather. If our nation's fuel supply is subject to mother nature's kindness or malevolance, we can just kiss the idea of fuel cost stability goodbye.

Then there's the fact that with the Chinese and the Indians feeling the squeeze of the world wide economic trauma, they're not buying oil right now, and so the price has dropped to what would seem like absurd levels. We're paying as little as $1.339 for 87 octane gasohol, and similar prices for 87 octane real gasoline. I bought 93 octane real gasoline yesterday for $1.599. At these prices, ethanol will raise the cost of fuel, not lower it.

And then there's the fact that unless you are using cellulosic waste products to make the ethanol, ethanol production takes food out of the food chain and drives up food prices. There's not a lot of free tillable land out there. Most tillable land is already in crop production. If you stop growing food so that you can grow switch grass for cellulosic alcohol production, you're still taking food off the table just as much as if you'd grown corn and sent the harvest to the ethanol plant instead of to the food processor.

Ethanol is bad fuel and bad food policy, and its going to come back to bite us.

 

[kulwen]

All of the above is consistent with what I know about adding ethanol to gasoline......

Here is a option:

Algae

 

[Rummy]

There is a problem with Ethanol in fuel, one that the public is now aware of. What I have printed below is a big problem for boat owners, but it is also a problem for motorcycles which are stored through the winter.

Be aware of the following:

Ethanol is alcohol, and one characteristic of alcohol is that it attracts water, and therefore pulls moisture into vented fuel tanks in boats. If the E10 fuel sits long enough, the water and ethanol separate from the gas, and can cause poor engine performance and damage the fuel system. A second and equally damaging trait of alcohol for boats is that it is a solvent. The ethanol loosens fuel varnish build-up and rust in the fuel tank and that gunk gets carried into the fuel system, potentially clogging and damaging parts, such as carburetors and fuel injectors. Two lawsuits, in California and Florida, have been filed to date against oil manufacturers that produce E10 fuel, on the basis the companies knew of potential harm to boat engines and failed to warn the public.

 

[El Toro]

All of the above is consistent with what I know about adding ethanol to gasoline......

Here is a option:

Algae

I had a chemical engineering student who is interested in algae based fuel write a paper for extra credit in my senior elective on IC engines so I read quite a few pages on this topic just this past weekend.

I think there are problems of scale that will be hard to overcome, but its too early to tell. Right now the snake oil salesman, wind farmers, solar scientists, and perpetual motion machine advocates are crowding the lobbies of Congress, and it will be hard to find the signal in the noise.

In my view, the ultimate bio fuel is from dead dinosaurs. If you can just wander over and pump it out of the ground, and have your primary cost be the cost of finding it, and the cost of accessing it, afterwhich you've got essentially free chemical energy until the reservoir runs dry, you've got it made. That's why when Diesel invented his cycle and intended that it run on peanut oil, plans quickly changed when crude was discovered virtually free for the taking.

I realize that naturally occuring natural gas and oil deposits are finite, but I'm not optimistic about our ability to add credible "renewable" supplies in real time unless we seriously diminish the rate of use.

 

[phil]

:blink: And, in line with what El Toro just said, higher corn prices will eventually drive up the the cost of living to over $20 per fifth.

 

[El Toro]

:blink: And, in line with what El Toro just said, higher corn prices will eventually drive up the the cost of living to over $20 per fifth.

Really, the Italians are the ones who have this figured out. They use the stems, seeds, vines, skins, and other leftover cellulosic waste products from wine making in order to make their Grappa.

Grappa typically sells for anywhere from $15/fifth up to as much as $100/fifth or more.

Hey - you wanna know why they sell E85 and not E100? Its to keep you from drinking it (an issue at the price point).