My accessory got me a ticket today

[buf2phx]

So,shortly after getting my FJR last year,I installed one of these Clicky. I have the LB02 model,the same light that is used on the FJR license plate frames available here on the forum. For about 9 months and 14k+ miles,I had no problems. This morning on the way to work, one of Phoenix's finest decided my light was unacceptable. I was cited under ARS 28-947C Clicky. I'm trying to find a way to avoid removing the light,but haven't come up with anything so far. After being rear-ended on I-10 while riding my Seca II in '08,I really like to make sure the cagers know I'm stopped. Any suggestions would be apprecitated.

Mike

 

[Good2Go]

So,shortly after getting my FJR last year,I installed one of these Clicky. I have the LB02 model,the same light that is used on the FJR license plate frames available here on the forum. For about 9 months and 14k+ miles,I had no problems. This morning on the way to work, one of Phoenix's finest decided my light was unacceptable. I was cited under ARS 28-947C Clicky. I'm trying to find a way to avoid removing the light,but haven't come up with anything so far. After being rear-ended on I-10 while riding my Seca II in '08,I really like to make sure the cagers know I'm stopped. Any suggestions would be apprecitated.
Mike

Which part of the statute do they claim you violated? Was it because it's a sequential, i.e. knight rider back and forth light?

I've stopped in front of LEOs from most of the jurisdictions here in the valley and none have cited me for my flashing Hyperlites.

 

[exskibum]

Which part of the statute do they claim you violated? Was it because it's a sequential, i.e. knight rider back and forth light?

Looks like subdivision C to me, and that neither subdivisions D or E provide a safe harbor in AZ for flashing red stop lights. That sucks, but given the wording of that statute, it looks like the remedy would have to be in getting the legislature yo change it.

 

[bramfrank]

I disagree. Section D says:

"A vehicle may have lamps that may be used to warn the operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing. The vehicle may display these lamps as a warning in addition to any other warning signals required by this article."

Motorcycles require special care and attention, and so an argument can be made that they meet the need for special lighting.

And, Cylon Eye/Knight Rider notwithstanding, these are all LEDs that FLASH - in sequence, mind you. Section D requires that they be simlutaneously flashing and that is where it may fall apart.

In any case I would plead not guilty and bring along the description and some articles about the need for drivers to be especially vigilant because bikes tend to be 'invisible.

For the future, you might want to replace your lighting with these: https://www.fleetsafety.com/-strse-168/LIN3...lice/Detail.bok They're brighter than what you have and they're legal . . .

You'll likely get off if you plead it right..

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

I'd fight it under section D as previously expressed. I think if you are lucky the cop won't show/bother or you'll get a judge with common sense. I'd bring in a lot of evidence of motorcycles' vulnerability from the rear. You might also contact nightrider and see if they have any experience with this.

Let us know, as I have one installed.

 

[Happy Rider]

I agree you could argue under section "D". Section "A" also says: "that projects a beam of light of an intensity greater than three hundred candlepower" You could also argue that the light is not three hundred candlepower if that is the case. You could ask the officer how he determined the intensity of your light and what he determined the lights intensity to be. The section goes on to say: "so that no part of the beam strikes the level of the roadway on which the vehicle stands at a distance of more than seventy-five feet from the vehicle." You could ask the officer how far your light projected away from your bike and how he measured the distance.

That type of light is illegal here in California. Good luck!!

 

[wfooshee]

He might have just been annoyed by it.

Personally, I think they're kind of annoying, too. Is it a brake light, a turn signal, what? He's turning left. No, right. No, left.

It may attract attention, but as a traffic device, it doesn't really tell folks what's going on, or convey your intentions to anybody.

Not a lawyer, never even played one on TV, but I did learn to read English some years ago, and I see nothing that permits such a display in that statute. The intent of the D section is the type of strobes you see on contractor vehicles at construction sites, mail delivery vans, a bus stopping at a railroad crossing, etc. It might be stretched to include flashing-then-steady brake lights, but there's just no way side-to-side sequential lights fit any of that.

 

[exskibum]

Sorry, guys. You're right; you can argue anything you want. I should know better than to try to explain how a lawyer or judge will read that statute. Before I wrote the above post, I considered the same argument for interpreting subdivision D favorably but rejected it under what the court will call the "plain meaning" test (legislative intent would be dispositive, however). Subdivision A simply says that if a light that is not a headlight, spotlight, etc. projects a beam of greater than the specified candlepower, then the place where it projects must be limited as specified, something that does not appear to be in issue here.

But anything is possible. Good luck to the OP. I like the idea of contacting the manufacturer for any help they might provide.

EDIT to add: FWIW, wfooshee is right, IMO, 'cept I can't give the disclaimer he did in the first clause of his last paragraph. :evo:

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

<<snip>>That type of light is illegal here in California. Good luck!!

Are you sure? If so I'll have to have the light disabled, as I ride down there often enough not to want to be pulled over.

 

[GalaxyBlue]

Personally, I think you got busted because he assumed you looked like an "emergency vehicle" with the wigwag lights. I do not see a reason to have a constant beacon on the tail like the Knight Riders kit, Bu the brake flasher would be ok.

I run a 3 LED brake flasher

and have not had any trouble from the LEO's.
Knight Riderz is on Facebook. I added them. Clicky

 

[buf2phx]

When he was explaining why he was citing me he mentioned distracting other motorists. He also specifically mentioned the flashing when the brake is applied,so I don't think he liked either mode of operation. In response to wfooshee,my hope is that I get noticed, not that the auxillary light conveys my intentions. Very few drivers in the Phoenix area use any type of lighting to convey their intentions. You know they're changing lanes or turning when they start moving into your lane. :angry2: None of the other Phoenix officers,or any of the countless DPS officers I've ridden near,have had a problem with the light. Just this one guy today.

Mike

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

Personally, I think you got busted because he assumed you looked like an "emergency vehicle" with the wigwag lights. I do not see a reason to have a constant beacon on the tail like the Knight Riders kit, Bu the brake flasher would be ok.
I run a 3 LED brake flasher

IMHO, People have really backed off and given me room from the 6 o'clock with it. And it reverts to a flashing pattern when brakes are applied -- best of both worlds as long as it is just seen for what it is -- auxilliary lighting.

I emailed the company asking for comment. I'll post if I hear anything.

 

[Happy Rider]

<<snip>>That type of light is illegal here in California. Good luck!!

Are you sure? If so I'll have to have the light disabled, as I ride down there often enough not to want to be pulled over.

Yep!

24603 CVC - in essence says that you need to have stoplamps and tells you where they can be located. It also gives you permission to have supplemental stoplamp.

25250 CVC - flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted.

25251 CVC - in essence tells you where flashing lights are permitted. It gives several examples of when they are permitted. The type of light that buf2phx has is not in the list. :angry:

25251.5© CVC - Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 CVC may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

End of Hijack

 

[exskibum]

25251 CVC - in essence tells you where flashing lights are permitted. It gives several examples of when they are permitted. The type of light that Exskibum has is not in the list. :angry:

Huh??? On each of my three bikes, all I have are the OEM lights -- headlights and otherwise (except that on the XX, I changed out the amber lenses for clear lenses with amber bulbs). I assume you meant to refer to the light buf2phx got cited for?

 

[Happy Rider]

25251 CVC - in essence tells you where flashing lights are permitted. It gives several examples of when they are permitted. The type of light that Exskibum has is not in the list. :angry:

Huh??? On each of my three bikes, all I have are the OEM lights -- headlights and otherwise. I assume you meant to refer to the light buf2phx got cited for?

OOPS!! I meant to say the light that buf2phx has on his bike. So sorry so sorry. Post fixed. :dribble:

 

[exskibum]

No worries. And thanks for digging out those vehicle code sections.

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

<<snip>>That type of light is illegal here in California. Good luck!!

Are you sure? If so I'll have to have the light disabled, as I ride down there often enough not to want to be pulled over.

Yep!

24603 CVC - in essence says that you need to have stoplamps and tells you where they can be located. It also gives you permission to have supplemental stoplamp.

25250 CVC - flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted.

25251 CVC - in essence tells you where flashing lights are permitted. It gives several examples of when they are permitted. The type of light that buf2phx has is not in the list. :angry:

25251.5© CVC - Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 CVC may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

End of Hijack

Well that sucks. But it may save me a ticket. Thanks.

END OF MY HIJACK

 

[TheAxeman]

I think the cop just had a bug up his *** about something else and you ended up being the target of his pissedoffedness. 08FJR4ME is the one on the forum who sells the same type of light. I rode behind him for hours back in November and didn't find the light to be distracting or annoying at all and if anything it made his bike more visible and easier to pick out in a crowd. I have a set of hyperlights on the back of mine that blink continually whenever the brake is actuated and have often wondered when it was going to become an issue for a cop that was behind me at a light.....so far so good.

 

[08FJR4ME]

So,shortly after getting my FJR last year,I installed one of these Clicky. I have the LB02 model,the same light that is used on the FJR license plate frames available here on the forum. For about 9 months and 14k+ miles,I had no problems. This morning on the way to work, one of Phoenix's finest decided my light was unacceptable. I was cited under ARS 28-947C Clicky. I'm trying to find a way to avoid removing the light,but haven't come up with anything so far. After being rear-ended on I-10 while riding my Seca II in '08,I really like to make sure the cagers know I'm stopped. Any suggestions would be apprecitated.
Mike

Well that SUCKS!

NightRiderz Does make just a standard brake(LB01) light and in fact I just sold a plate with one. You can remove the wire that controls the back and forth motion or maybe put a switch in line to flip it off. You could also remove the brake wire to stop the flashing or put a switch in also and all you would have left would be running lights. I have over 17K miles using mine and have been through over half a dozen states without any issues YET. Sounds more like one cop who hates motorcycle peeps. I have been followed by the locals several times and have yet to have them pull me over. That being said.

Anyone who has the Sequential back and forth lights and would like to have a replacement sent to them with the (LB01 Standard)

can send me a PM.

On there website, Note:Knight Riderz Light Bars can be wired independently, for example if you only want to connect the running light wire you can do so and cap off the brake light wire, if you only want to use the brake function simply cap off the running light wire. If you want to use the sequential function as a brake light instead of a running light then connect it to your brake light wire and cap off the Knight Riderz brake light wire.

Dave