my PCIII opinion

[temp357]

Well I did my first ride yesterday with the PCIII configured with the smoothness map.
My first impression was that accelerating from idle is much smoother now. Not quite "omg this feels like a totally new bike" but i did notice a difference. It still jerks a bit, but a lot less. The difference from 'stock' to having the PCIII with it's default FJR map is very noticeable. The diff between that map and the smoothness map, I found was not as big a diff but definitly an improvement.

Overall, I'm happy with the purchase and as I learn to use the PCIII more and more, I think i'll get to enjoy it even more!

Now add a g2 throttle tube and you'll find the bike rides like a dream.

 

[818Guy]

Okay, I "installed" the standard map for my FJR. It did seem to help. I went for a ride today with my GF. I really didn't put it though the paces like I would if riding alone... i.e. coming out of a corner has not been tested.

I still have the abrupt "shut down" at highway speeds though. If I let go of the throttle the bike still slows abruptly as if I'm applying the brakes. My GF at times will head-butt me with her helmet, it's that abrupt. I do not know if this is a quirk of the FJR at this point.

I also did loosen my throttle cable. I think I may have made it too tight when I first adjusted it. I was unable to keep it open with just my hand laying on it, like before. I had to maintain a firm grip on the throttle at all times - too much hand fatigue for me.

 

[818Guy]

i've found that if you add 20% more fuel to the zero throttle position scale from 500 rpms to 5k rpms it should get red of your on off throttle problems. if you want you could start with 5% and go up from there.

I'm a PCIII dummy. 20%? I only see positive and negative numbers on the mapping program. Do those numbers represent percentages?

Any chance you can screen capture the page so I can see what you mean?

 

[chiefj48]

i've found that if you add 20% more fuel to the zero throttle position scale from 500 rpms to 5k rpms it should get red of your on off throttle problems. if you want you could start with 5% and go up from there.

I'm a PCIII dummy. 20%? I only see positive and negative numbers on the mapping program. Do those numbers represent percentages?

Any chance you can screen capture the page so I can see what you mean?

20% is a positive number. when you open the map, you will see the chart. in the first column to the left you will see no numbers for the zero throttle position. in those boxes, put the number 20 from 500 rpm's to 5k rpm's you can click on one box and drag it to open the rest of the column. don't change any other numbers in the map.

if you still have problems send me a PM for my phone number, and i'll talk you through it.

joe

 

[IndianaTom]

Doesn't seem to have helped with the main thing I wanted it to address: low speed jerkiness.

I have a PCIII in the package in the garage right now, I'm gonna try to install it this weekend. I don't know how much it'll help, I personally feel the problem in twisties with throttle on and off is an issue of back lash in the drive train, but I'd be real happy is I was wrong.

I'm so happy to be wrong! it's a DREAM! Thank you Power Commander Engineers!

 

[818Guy]

20% is a positive number. when you open the map, you will see the chart. in the first column to the left you will see no numbers for the zero throttle position. in those boxes, put the number 20 from 500 rpm's to 5k rpm's you can click on one box and drag it to open the rest of the column. don't change any other numbers in the map.
if you still have problems send me a PM for my phone number, and i'll talk you through it.

joe

Thanks Joe for the info. I probably won't get to it until the weekend but I'll see if I can get some time to try it during the week.

 

[chiefj48]

20% is a positive number. when you open the map, you will see the chart. in the first column to the left you will see no numbers for the zero throttle position. in those boxes, put the number 20 from 500 rpm's to 5k rpm's you can click on one box and drag it to open the rest of the column. don't change any other numbers in the map.
if you still have problems send me a PM for my phone number, and i'll talk you through it.

joe

Thanks Joe for the info. I probably won't get to it until the weekend but I'll see if I can get some time to try it during the week.

let me know how you make out with it.

 

[818Guy]

Okay, each day this week before I rode to work I've made adjustments on my PCIII.

Here is my summary:

On Monday, I upped the zero position to 7. Some minor improvement at highway speeds. Nothing on the low end (speeds).

On Tuesday, I upped the number to 11. Again, some improvement over 7 at highway speeds. Nothing really on the low end.

On Wednesday, I've upped it to 15. Some additional improvement but nothing to say it has "cured" the issue I have. Again, nothing really on the low end.

FYI, my commute to and from work is about 25 miles each way, mostly highway.

This weekend I will try 20 and see how it is.

I'm beginning to wonder if the electronic clutch is part of my problem. I have the AE and it almost "bangs" getting into gear at lower speeds which causes some of the jerkiness I'm dealing with.

Side note, my fuel economy hasn't really changed so I'm happy about that.

 

[818Guy]

You can also go in with the laptop and enable the transient fueling option a.k.a. the accelerator pump shot. That helps.
You did disconnect the O2 , right?

Yes, I did disconnet the O2. What can you (or anyone else) tell me about this accelerator pump feature?

 

[TheAxeman]

I'm beginning to wonder if the electronic clutch is part of my problem. I have the AE and it almost "bangs" getting into gear at lower speeds which causes some of the jerkiness I'm dealing with.

You may want to PM TRIPLETANGO because I recall him having the same problem on his AE and am not quite sure how he rectified it but his description of the "banging" was the same as yours.

 

[Bounce]

Did you check to make sure that it came loaded with the custom map? I ask because mine came loaded wih a "no change" map even though it was packaged as a FJR1300 specific unit. Also, did you do the throttle sync?
Bill

That's something I forgot to do, thanks for the reminder! I'll make sure I hookup the laptop tomorrow and do that. It's via the "set throttle position" in the software's menu right?

you definitely need to "set throttle position" as it makes a difference.

but it's not the same as loading in a map. there is a zero-position map that means all values are zero (no change to oem efi settings). you can get other maps from the dynojet web site, download the file to your laptop and then upload it to your PC3.

I still have the abrupt "shut down" at highway speeds though. If I let go of the throttle the bike still slows abruptly as if I'm applying the brakes. My GF at times will head-butt me with her helmet, it's that abrupt. I do not know if this is a quirk of the FJR at this point.

that's normal for efi. don't let go... control your throttle.

 

[Fred H.]

IN MY OPINION:

While the Power Commander may give you some flexibility in adjusting the map to smooth out the bike, I would seriously doubt that it is going to be able to compensate enough to overcome the progressive pitch throttle pulley and get rid of the low rpm jerk that the 06 and 07 have. And even if it could, you would have to drive the mixture to a ridiculously over-rich condition which is not good for your valves and combustion chamber.

I'm not saying the PC doesn't work, but just that it won't be able to overcome what Yamaha did to the throttle pulley. The only real way to fix the low RPM jerkiness is to install the G2 throttle tube so it compensates for the progressive pulley.

Yamaha needs to get the message and put the throttle pulley back to way it was on the previous model year bikes.

 

[War Machine]

IN MY OPINION:
While the Power Commander may give you some flexibility in adjusting the map to smooth out the bike, I would seriously doubt that it is going to be able to compensate enough to overcome the progressive pitch throttle pulley and get rid of the low rpm jerk that the 06 and 07 have. And even if it could, you would have to drive the mixture to a ridiculously over-rich condition which is not good for your valves and combustion chamber.

I'm not saying the PC doesn't work, but just that it won't be able to overcome what Yamaha did to the throttle pulley. The only real way to fix the low RPM jerkiness is to install the G2 throttle tube so it compensates for the progressive pulley.

Yamaha needs to get the message and put the throttle pulley back to way it was on the previous model year bikes.

Fred, I've read alot of your posts & you always have great input but I think you might be off on this one. I just received my PCIII & I'm going to install it on my 06 in the next day or two. Even though I haven't installed it yet I believe it will smooth out the low rpm jerk, because ever since I did the Barbarian Jumper Mod & enrichened the mixture +7 on each cylinder that alone has elliminated the jerky throttle, with the same progressive pitch throttle pulley!

Isn't that what the PCIII is supposed to do without the BJM, remap/enrichen the fuel?

 

[Fred H.]

IN MY OPINION:

I am sure the PC will make an improvement, but there is simply no way to overcome the fact that the throttle plates do not open in a linear fashion without addressing the throttle movement itself. This is the root cause of the problem, and no amount of tweaking the fuel map can change the dynamics of the way the throttle plates open quickly at low throttle angles due to the progressive pitch throttle pulley.

You need to put a G2 on the bike to fix the throttle problem. Then use the PC as it is was intended, to tweak the fuel map to your liking and smooth out any flat spots.

 

[twodogs]

IN MY OPINION:
I am sure the PC will make an improvement, but there is simply no way to overcome the fact that the throttle plates do not open in a linear fashion without addressing the throttle movement itself. This is the root cause of the problem, and no amount of tweaking the fuel map can change the dynamics of the way the throttle plates open quickly at low throttle angles due to the progressive pitch throttle pulley.

You need to put a G2 on the bike to fix the throttle problem. Then use the PC as it is was intended, to tweak the fuel map to your liking and smooth out any flat spots.

Let me guess:

You haven't either installed a PC III on your bike or ridden a bike with one installed.

Right?

I sense another convert in the making.

Bill

 

[John_Dumke]

IN MY OPINION:
I am sure the PC will make an improvement, but there is simply no way to overcome the fact that the throttle plates do not open in a linear fashion without addressing the throttle movement itself. This is the root cause of the problem, and no amount of tweaking the fuel map can change the dynamics of the way the throttle plates open quickly at low throttle angles due to the progressive pitch throttle pulley.

You need to put a G2 on the bike to fix the throttle problem. Then use the PC as it is was intended, to tweak the fuel map to your liking and smooth out any flat spots.

Let me guess:

You haven't either installed a PC III on your bike or ridden a bike with one installed.

Right?

I sense another convert in the making.

Bill

Fred, If you lived locally, I would let you drive my bike. Someday (when you get the PCIII) you will see the light. No really, Let me explain it this way. Let's us say that with 0-2% throttle the stock bike is so lean that the engine doesn't respond, then at 2%+ the bike finally responds to throttle. This is what causes the jearkyness. I used to think that I was "throttle control" challenged. The PCIII reminded me that I do infact know how to ride and it was the bike not me that was unable to moderate the throttle at partial settings.

While your assesment of the non linear way in which the throttle pully works is correct. No amount of linearity can correct a engine that simply doesn't respond under part throttle and then finally responds after the throttle has been opened a significant amount.

I do not have the G2, but have the PCIII and LOVE my bike, it is a smooth as butter, (a big fast stick of butter!) and it is all because of the PCIII. :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

 

[Fred H.]

Let me guess:
You haven't either installed a PC III on your bike or ridden a bike with one installed.

Right?

I sense another convert in the making.

Bill

Let me guess, you either haven't ridden an 06 or 07 with the G2 throttle tube or the throttle pulley "fixed" so it is linear. Right?

I have no doubt that a PC can make the engine smoother by altering the map, but I also know that if you fix the throttle pulley, that will correct the snatchy throttle symptoms of the 06 and 07 all by itself. The throttle snatch on the 06 and 07 is not caused by a lean condition. The ROOT LEVEL CAUSE is the progressive pitch pulley that makes the throttle plates open too far and too fast at low throttle angles. This can easily be proven by simply riding a stock 06 or 07, as all you have to do to make it smooth is really concentrate on having good throttle control and by just barely moving the throttle. If the snatch was caused by a lean condition of the engine, no amount of throttle control would be able to overcome it.

Again, I am not saying the PC can't do good things for the bike, but I am saying if you are using it to correct the low RPM throttle snatch on the 06 and 07, you are not fixing the ROOT LEVEL CAUSE of the problem. If you want to fix it right, you need to address the non-linear throttle action at low RPM. And the best way to do that is with a G2 tube (or a shim in the pulley if you are brave enough).

 

[dcarver]

Let me guess:
You haven't either installed a PC III on your bike or ridden a bike with one installed.

Right?

I sense another convert in the making.

Bill

Let me guess, you either haven't ridden an 06 or 07 with the G2 throttle tube or the throttle pulley "fixed" so it is linear. Right?

I have no doubt that a PC can make the engine smoother by altering the map, but I also know that if you fix the throttle pulley, that will correct the snatchy throttle symptoms of the 06 and 07 all by itself. The throttle snatch on the 06 and 07 is not caused by a lean condition. The ROOT LEVEL CAUSE is the progressive pitch pulley that makes the throttle plates open too far and too fast at low throttle angles. This can easily be proven by simply riding a stock 06 or 07, as all you have to do to make it smooth is really concentrate on having good throttle control and by just barely moving the throttle. If the snatch was caused by a lean condition of the engine, no amount of throttle control would be able to overcome it.

Again, I am not saying the PC can't do good things for the bike, but I am saying if you are using it to correct the low RPM throttle snatch on the 06 and 07, you are not fixing the ROOT LEVEL CAUSE of the problem. If you want to fix it right, you need to address the non-linear throttle action at low RPM. And the best way to do that is with a G2 tube (or a shim in the pulley if you are brave enough).

What Fred said!

 

[SkooterG]

but I also know that if you fix the throttle pulley, that will correct the snatchy throttle symptoms of the 06 and 07 all by itself. The throttle snatch on the 06 and 07 is not caused by a lean condition. The ROOT LEVEL CAUSE is the progressive pitch pulley that makes the throttle plates open too far and too fast at low throttle angles.

I disagree. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[twodogs]

Let me guess, you either haven't ridden an 06 or 07 with the G2 throttle tube or the throttle pulley "fixed" so it is linear. Right?

Direct answer to your question:

Nope, wrong.

I installed the G2 after the PCIII and have ridden with both for some time - months - now. The PC fixed about 85% of the overall throttle problem and the G2 another 10% or so. Actually, in terms of the mid-corner jolt/snatch, the PC fixed it nearly entirely. As you state, the G2 - which is a beautifully made piece - allows for a finer degree of control without increased rider attention, felt by me elsewhere in operation of the bike.

You'll note that there is still about 5% problem left, at least according to my butt. That may be too high. Now there is the rare abruptness but it is rare indeed and I think probably caused by an unusual series or combination of revs, throttle position, etc... With the PC it's a different and much better bike. The G2 helps a bit but I could easily do without it and not miss it. Not so the PC.

I have no doubt that a PC can make the engine smoother by altering the map, but I also know that if you fix the throttle pulley, that will correct the snatchy throttle symptoms of the 06 and 07 all by itself. The throttle snatch on the 06 and 07 is not caused by a lean condition. The ROOT LEVEL CAUSE is the progressive pitch pulley that makes the throttle plates open too far and too fast at low throttle angles. This can easily be proven by simply riding a stock 06 or 07, as all you have to do to make it smooth is really concentrate on having good throttle control and by just barely moving the throttle. If the snatch was caused by a lean condition of the engine, no amount of throttle control would be able to overcome it.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. IMO and as confirmed by my and many other’s PCIII installation, the problem is not the throttle pulley but the lean condition(s) supposedly forced on Yam by emissions testing parameters. I, too, was able to somewhat eliminate the jerk with sensitive and conscientious throttle operation. However, IMO this is not because I was able to overcome a too abrupt mechanical throttle curve but because the slow and perhaps fluttering opening of the throttle reduces the too lean condition to some extent. (I think we would agree that slow throttle operation does not solve the problem in a meaningful way, it just substitutes a different bad behavior - excessive rider attention load, poor throttle response AND a smaller snatch (go easy now guys) - for the original problem.) This lean condition jerk/snatch is not unique to FJRs and is ameliorated by PCs in other bikes as well, e.g. RC51's, without any consideration of pulley configurations.

Some folks think the cause is the pulley, some think it's drive train lash. It's not, it's the lean condition and the PC fixes it.

Again, I am not saying the PC can't do good things for the bike, but I am saying if you are using it to correct the low RPM throttle snatch on the 06 and 07, you are not fixing the ROOT LEVEL CAUSE of the problem. If you want to fix it right, you need to address the non-linear throttle action at low RPM. And the best way to do that is with a G2 tube (or a shim in the pulley if you are brave enough).

See above. (And, as ingeniious an idea as it is, I'm not brave(?) enough to stick a loose piece of twisted wire in the throttle guts .)

I take it you have not tried a PCIII equiped 06 or 07.

Really, there's no need to doubt this. No need to vote on it. Install a PCIII. If it doesn't fix about 9/10s of the FJR's throttle problems, send it back and tell me I'm full of ****. My bet is you won't take it off once you try it. I may be wrong in this, but...

I think you will instead be another happy convert to the Church of Our Lady of Smoothness.

Yay-ah!, verily!!! JOYFUL BREEEEZES-ah!!!!!

Brother BillyBob