my PCIII opinion

[818Guy]

I do think we need to ALWAYS state whether the Gen II is the A or AE model.

As I have stated before, I believe my AE shifting is part of the issue.

My PCIII has not cured 85-90% of the problem I have.

 

[twodogs]

I do think we need to ALWAYS state whether the Gen II is the A or AE model.
As I have stated before, I believe my AE shifting is part of the issue.

My PCIII has not cured 85-90% of the problem I have.

You are correct.

My experience is limited to the A model.

Bill

 

[Fred H.]

I appreciate your perspective, and I do hear what you are saying. I suspect the truth is that there are several things that contribute to the abrupt throttle, and drive line lash and a lean condition most certainly don't help any.

All I can tell you for sure is that I was able to totally eliminate the abrupt throttle problems on my own bike by simply changing the shape of the throttle pulley. I also did the Barbaian mod and increased my base mixture settings 7 points. Maybe my shim has a more dramatic change than what the G2 tube gives you, as I have not tried the G2 tube myself. It may not be a drastic enough of a curve to overcome the progressive pitch on the throttle pulley.

I will tell you that it is very unlikely I will ever put a PC on my bike simply because I have no need to. My shim with the Barbarian mod made my bike smooth as glass and easy to control and modulate at all RPMS with zero throttle snatch.

If you really want to see what the progressive pitch pulley has done to the bike, put it in the diag mode and watch the readout of the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) as you twist the throttle from idle up. Notice how fast the numbers change at low RPM settings. With my modified pulley, when I twist the throttle, the TPS number change is linear throughout the entire throttle movement range.

 

[twodogs]

One other thing we're ignoring here is the difference in FJRs, one to the other. A buddy bought a sister bike to mine. From the start his was smoother and better running. The PC changed my bike dramaitcally but it is now only somewhat better than his non-PC bike.. He will install a PC soon and I am curious as to the result.

Bill

 

[John_Dumke]

Taste great!

Less filling!

 

[loanarranger]

Time to add my own experience with the PCIII and G2. I've had the G2 on for about one week and just added the PC today and did the first test ride.

First let me give some background of my experience to date with the new FJR. I've had the bike since March 1 and generally very pleased with it. The throttle at low speed was a little more abrupt than I was use to, on the Sprint ST I ride, but I chalked that up to the difference in engine size, number of cylinders and shaft drive.An indication that all was not as it should be, was the first time I hit the mountain roads above Palm Desert. Namely RT. 74.

On long sweeping turns with slight to moderate grades, and the revs at 3500-4500 rpm in third, the throttle response became scary at times. When trying to hold a smooth line and maintain a steady throttle, the bike would alternate between hesitation and surge, with not much neutrality in between. Down hill did not seem so bad but the up grade turns were all about as described. Not enjoyable, even dangerous.

A trip to the dealer got no results, only the statement that their "most experienced" test pilot could not reproduce the symptom. In the meantime I had pretty well researched the problem on this forum and started looking for a cure by first installing the G2. This worked wonders with take offs and at speeds under 5 mph, especially parking lot maneuvers. Out on the twisting mountain roads, if anything was different, the throttle control in the turns, at speed, was worse now, showing poor control both on up and down grades .

After today's installation of the PC, all that changed for the better. On the same road (Rt. 74) the ride was comparable to the way the Sprint handles. Easy speed control in the turns, no hesitation and no surging. Like riding a different bike. Why couldn't it be like this in stock form? The Triumph was!

If there is still any residual problem, in the FJR FI mapping, it is that throttle response is a little slow on quick openings but not dramatically so, no bogging. I will go back now and experiment with the Accelerator Pump utility on the PCIII and see if I can refine things a little. When I tried that utility after setting up the throttle position with a laptop, I couldn't get it to run properly with the PCIII software. I got an error message read something like, " The connection is already in use by another program". Anybody know how to set up the utility so that it runs with PCIII software?

 

[grendell]

When I tried that utility after setting up the throttle position with a laptop, I couldn't get it to run properly with the PCIII software. I got an error message read something like, " The connection is already in use by another program". Anybody know how to set up the utility so that it runs with PCIII software?

Did you have both the PC and the Pump Utility software open at the same time? I had this same issue at first. You have to close the PCIII software, open the Pump Utility software and enable the Accel Pump feature. Then you can close the pump utility software, open the PCIII software and set the options by going to Power Commander Tools -> Accel Pump Configuration.

 

[loanarranger]

Thanks grendell, you nailed it exactly. I was going to try again tomorrow with the AP utility. With your advice it should work this time.

 

[Fred H.]

Well, I could be all wrong in my thinking, wouldn't be the first time. Color me skeptical.

 

[John_Dumke]

After today's installation of the PC, all that changed for the better. On the same road (Rt. 74) the ride was comparable to the way the Sprint handles. Easy speed control in the turns, no hesitation and no surging. Like riding a different bike. Why couldn't it be like this in stock form? The Triumph was!

I stock bike that carburates like crap? I really don't know why this is a surprise. I haven't had a stock STREET bike carburate correctly since my 86 GSX-R 750, they are always too lean. The only bikes that have run right stock were the non emmision race only dirt bikes that I have bought. Why? No emmissions guidelines.

The bottom line with these bikes is that they are very much complete race engines, which entails a lot of int/exh valve overlap and hence quite a bit of un burnt gas at lower rpm. It is difficult to produce a race engine that will spin to 10-13,000 rpm, and yet produce very low emmissions at lower rpm. It may be possible with variable valve timing, but bikes are not there yet. You can't have it both ways.

Yes I know, there are some manufacturers that have struck a better balance than others, but I think the low volume nature of the product, limits a company like Yamaha from completely redesigning the engine, to accomodate the high output requirements of the marketplace just because the emmission limits got tighter.

So the engineers either have a choice. Build a bike that carburates well at low rpm, yet may produce 30% less peak horsepower, or build an engine that produces max horsepower and do the best you can with the slow speed jetting to get it CARB approved. Which do you think will sell more? Hopefully the answer is obvious, it is the fire breathing GSXR or R1 with 150+ hp that does the quarter mile in 10.2 secs. Not the bike with the accurate carburation, that sucks ***.

Knowing this is the trade off, I am also much happier with their decision to produce the performance vehicle that I can fix with a jet kit or a PCIII. I don't really see this as a surprise. To me it is just standard operating procedure.

 

[mike25]

One other thing we're ignoring here is the difference in FJRs, one to the other. A buddy bought a sister bike to mine. From the start his was smoother and better running. The PC changed my bike dramaitcally but it is now only somewhat better than his non-PC bike.. He will install a PC soon and I am curious as to the result.
Bill

I think that this is the issue. Some bikes don't seem to have as many problems

as others. Which tells me it's a quality control problem with Yamaha. I'll also be

interested to hear the results of your buddys PC install.

 

[John_Dumke]

One other thing we're ignoring here is the difference in FJRs, one to the other. A buddy bought a sister bike to mine. From the start his was smoother and better running. The PC changed my bike dramaitcally but it is now only somewhat better than his non-PC bike.. He will install a PC soon and I am curious as to the result.
Bill

I think that this is the issue. Some bikes don't seem to have as many problems

as others. Which tells me it's a quality control problem with Yamaha. I'll also be

interested to hear the results of your buddys PC install.

I don't think it is necessarily a quality control issue, but just a typical manufacturing tolerance issue. I remember when I had my Corvette, and was dealing with aftermarket chips and lots other hp mods, I could buy a set of "Blue Printed" fuel injectors, that would be "matched". What this tells me is that there is a significant difference in flow from injector to injector.

The PCIII also has built this type of adjustment into the PCIII software, allowing you to adjust the individual injectors. So they also see enough variation from injector to injector to add this feature to their software.

Balancing out the injectors would greatly enhance the smoothness, but I am not sure what type of exhaust gas analyser you would need. Maybe one with individual pickups at each head pipe.

 

[SkooterG]

Balancing out the injectors would greatly enhance the smoothness, but I am not sure what type of exhaust gas analyser you would need. Maybe one with individual pickups at each head pipe.

+1

Haven't seen it in a long while, but it's been done by a few people from the 'old days'. A sniffer port is installed on each header tube, usually close to the exit from the head, so each tube can be checked individually by an Exhaust Gas Analyzer (EGA). In fact, way early on, one owner was so bothered by the heat from his FJR that he was about to demand his money back. But then he found a 5 Start Yamaha dealer that installed the individual sniffer ports and somehow tweaked his fuel injection and made everything good. He claimed it was a completely different bike.

And on another occassion long ago, I remember somebody posting how they took off their four fuel injectors and sent them to some company where they were *matched*, much like you describe. He posted the specs which showed how his stock, low mile injectors were off significantly.

Interesting stuff. And while doing these things might not alter *most* FJRs very much, they may help a few that are really on the limit of, or out of tolerance.

 

[818Guy]

Okay, after some personal frustration with DynoJet's instructions, or lack thereof, I reset my throttle position.

After doing that I reloaded my "15" map.

I will say it has helped my low end RPMs and speed. It is not the awe-inspiring cure that others seem to have experienced ("OMG it's a whole new bike" thing). A roll off the throttle at freeway speeds still gives me the lunge forward as if I'm engine braking. Still too much for me.

I may try "20" this weekend to see if that helps. I am, though, noticing a drop in fuel mileage.

Finally, I would like to give a [SIZE=24pt]HUGE[/SIZE] thank you to JeffAshe for his help. Thanks for your patience Jeff. :clapping:

 

[War Machine]

Well, I could be all wrong in my thinking, wouldn't be the first time. Color me skeptical.

Well I finally had a chance to test my bike (06A) after installing the PCIII last weekend (see pics if interested here:PCIII installation).

Now if you remember ealier in this thread I mentioned that I was previously running the Barbarian Jumper Mod with a +7 enrichment across all 4 cylinders & a K&N air filter as the only mods to a stock bike, (no throttle mods) & I felt that modification elliminated a very twitchy throttle at various RPMs, which is what most of us Gen II owners complained about. I definetly could have been satisfied with this set up & I'll get to why I went with the PCIII anyway, later.

I did reset the enrichment back to stock settings before I installed the PCIII.

I tested it extensively the way I use my bike much of the time by commuting in NYC. And if I was satisfied before, you should see me smiling now! I was amazed at how much smoother the bike is now in stop & go traffic. No abrupt throttle at all, even when rolling as low as 900 rpm. That's right 900 rpm & no feathering of the clutch either. Thank you PCIII, I could not do that before.

Even when I downshifted to 2nd upon coming to a stop sign (rolling stop) & then accelerated away, it was smooth as glass. Before, a 2nd gear takeoff would not have been smooth & I would have had to downshift to 1st for a smooth takeoff. Thank you PCIII.

After repeated successful testing in morning rush hour, I made a left & went over the George Washington Bridge into New Jersey & headed up to High Point State Park. Anyone familiar with this area knows that you get many nice twisties at up & down elevations all on this one road Route 23. Again the bike did not display any twitchyness or abrupt throttle & felt very strong as it did when I rode this route with the BJM +7. The very 1st time I rode High Point before the BJM mod it was impossible to be smooth & made me look (& feel) like a FNG.

I then continued south in the northwest corner of New Jersey where there are many nice twisting roads through some farm land & I could not have been happier with the way the FJR performed. I must also mention that I performed this test in Streetfighter Mode (solo, without bags/trunk) only a tankbag & ipod because this is how I do most of my riding. I will have to wait for a weekend when my wife & I can take a daytrip with bags & maybe trunk to find out how it performs loaded. I really don't expect to be disappointed afterall this bike does not suffer from insufficient power, & the bike has performed very well on the 2 weekend trips we have already experienced.

As to why I didn't just leave the bike with just the BJM+7? I know I will eventually replace the stock exhaust & knew it would be alot easier to load a different map into the PCIII later that to start to manually experiment with CO settings.

Again this is just my findings & as we have read others have had mixed results. I really feel for guys like 818Guy after reading what he has been going through, but it may have more to do more with his being an AE than an A model.

 

[818Guy]

I really feel for guys like 818Guy after reading what he has been going through, but it may have more to do more with his being an AE than an A model.

Well, I changed my throttle setting to "20" and I have to say I can understand the "smoothness" comments others have posted. On the freeway this morning, it was a different ride for me. I'm so used to the abrupt ride that at this setting I was going 90 before I knew it - acceleration was that smooth as I was riding the freeway onramp.

Again, my fuel mileage is dropping a bit. I may try a setting of 17 to see how the bike feels and see if I can minimize the fuel mileage drop.

 

[War Machine]

I really feel for guys like 818Guy after reading what he has been going through, but it may have more to do more with his being an AE than an A model.

Well, I changed my throttle setting to "20" and I have to say I can understand the "smoothness" comments others have posted. On the freeway this morning, it was a different ride for me. I'm so used to the abrupt ride that at this setting I was going 90 before I knew it - acceleration was that smooth as I was riding the freeway onramp.

Again, my fuel mileage is dropping a bit. I may try a setting of 17 to see how the bike feels and see if I can minimize the fuel mileage drop.

Glad to hear you finally achieved the smoothness that makes this bike a dream to ride/own. Please let us know your opinion after you change the throttle setting to "17".

 

[chiefj48]

I really feel for guys like 818Guy after reading what he has been going through, but it may have more to do more with his being an AE than an A model.

Well, I changed my throttle setting to "20" and I have to say I can understand the "smoothness" comments others have posted. On the freeway this morning, it was a different ride for me. I'm so used to the abrupt ride that at this setting I was going 90 before I knew it - acceleration was that smooth as I was riding the freeway onramp.

Again, my fuel mileage is dropping a bit. I may try a setting of 17 to see how the bike feels and see if I can minimize the fuel mileage drop.

Your Welcome!!! it took you long enough!!!

 

[818Guy]

Please let us know your opinion after you change the throttle setting to "17".

I dunno, should I post a novel like you did with my turn-by-turn route and experience in each gear?

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[John_Dumke]

What do you mean change the throttle setting to 17?

Do you mean the setting the throttle position sensor? After I set the idle. I blipped the throttle from 0-100% to set the throttle position sensor to Zero. Like it says to do in some of the posts & I think FJRTech. Am I supposed to have this set to something other than 0. Or are you talking about something else.

Please enlighten me, because I thought I had my PCIII set up correctly, but I am not following what you are now talking about.