protondecay123
No Delusions of Significance
Heres the link to the article in today's NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/us/26sportbike.html?ref=us
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/us/26sportbike.html?ref=us
Navy and Marines requiring Sportbike training
- Thread starter protondecay123
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madmike2
Shtirrenuppenmeister
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However, having not read the column I would offer that according to GunMD and a couple of other members who have contributed in the last couple of months, this has been an ongoing discussion and a possibility.
Evidently many returning Gulf area veterans are returning from "harm's way" and then being injured or killed riding motorcycles in the U.S. One assumes they are requiring more than the MSF basic riders course and are now requiring a training course that requires "demonstrated proficiency".
However, having not read the column I would offer that according to GunMD and a couple of other members who have contributed in the last couple of months, this has been an ongoing discussion and a possibility.
Evidently many returning Gulf area veterans are returning from "harm's way" and then being injured or killed riding motorcycles in the U.S. One assumes they are requiring more than the MSF basic riders course and are now requiring a training course that requires "demonstrated proficiency".
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monk69
Well-known member
Interesting move on the Navy,not unexpected though.
Back in the mid 60's the Navy came out with a magazine for service personnel,I think it was call "Driver"(can't swear to it),but it was the 1st. book/mag. that I looked forward to seeing the next issue.
Back in the mid 60's the Navy came out with a magazine for service personnel,I think it was call "Driver"(can't swear to it),but it was the 1st. book/mag. that I looked forward to seeing the next issue.
GunMD
Well-known member
I think that this is actually a DoD level initiative, rather than being specific to the Department of the Navy. Don't hold me to that, but I seem to recall reading that somewhere. On the Marine Corps base here in 29 Palms they just conducted yet another safety brief targeting all motorcycle and ATV riders, to include those that don't have their bikes registered for use aboard the base. I applaud their efforts, but I don't really see a big difference yet. We still have what seems to be weekly reports (perhaps I'm overstating that just a bit) of motorcyclists affiliated with the DoN crashing. Sucks.
dbvolfan
Well-known member
This was a hot topic the last few times I was in El Paso (Ft. Bliss) where a lot of soldiers had died/been injured riding sport bikes. Local newspaper about a yr ago had a pretty lengthy write up about how many were returing from Iraq/Afghanistan and might have fallen into a lull of invincibility or carefree attitude after experiencing what they went through over there.
All I know, I was in Mr. Motorcycle one day off of I-10 and some guy was signing up for a new sport bike despite his wife's (and 5 or 6 yr old daughter)pleas not to get it. Lot of guys in uniform in there buying fast bikes.
All I know, I was in Mr. Motorcycle one day off of I-10 and some guy was signing up for a new sport bike despite his wife's (and 5 or 6 yr old daughter)pleas not to get it. Lot of guys in uniform in there buying fast bikes.
It's probably modeled after the NFL's policy (*remembering Kellen Winslow and Ben Roethlisberger's get-offs). More money than brains there.
One of my new neighbors is a relatively young looking veteran (he has the state-issued Veteran personal license plate). I've only spoken to him in passing, but he has a new v-star and I think it's an R6 near his garage. We just agreed that we'd ride "next season" as I had to store mine off-site early. No gear for him. Just a retail leather jacket and shades.
I'm not about to walk up to someone who's spent time handling a gun and suggest they go ATGATT.
One of my new neighbors is a relatively young looking veteran (he has the state-issued Veteran personal license plate). I've only spoken to him in passing, but he has a new v-star and I think it's an R6 near his garage. We just agreed that we'd ride "next season" as I had to store mine off-site early. No gear for him. Just a retail leather jacket and shades.
I'm not about to walk up to someone who's spent time handling a gun and suggest they go ATGATT.
dragonchef
Well-known member
Ride with a Gunny who is the G1 for Korea. It's all true...in the last year more Marines have died on the road in wrecks than in Iraq and Afganistan ....combined
Here is the memo....the PDF file that is attached is 14 pages and includes stats and photos...I can email it to anyone interested....it's 1.3MB
From the Director: The CMC's White Letter 05-08 directs a safety stand-down
be completed and directs the use of recent actual motorcycle fatalities
scenarios. HQMC Safety has the scenarios on their website; I have included
those scenarios in this newsletter for quick reference.
The high price of fuel is causing many Marines, Sailors, and civilians
to find cheaper ways to get to and from work. In some states, the cost of
a gallon of gas has peaked at well over four dollars, so many people are
choosing motorcycles as their primary transportation mode. However, as
ownership increases, so does the number of inexperienced riders and
accidents.
Last year, the Marine Corps and Navy lost 37 lives in motorcycle
accidents (18 Navy/19 Marines), with speed being the major cause. This year
to date, 48 Marine and Sailors have died in motorcycles accidents (25
Navy/23 Marines), with July being one of the deadliest months; and speed
again is the major cause of accidents and death. I can't stress enough the
importance of proper training and protective equipment. Remember safety
starts with you!
Whether your bike is only for recreation or your primary means of
getting to work, get trained, wear the proper PPE, and obey the speed
limits. You are welcome to pass on and post this newsletter for widest
dissemination. Log on the www.mccll.usmc.mil website to download previous
editions of the Marine Corps Center for Lessons Learned Safety Corner as
well as our Monthly Newsletters. I look forward to your comments so we can
raise awareness, reduce risk and maintain a high level of readiness.
Semper Fidelis,
Col Monte Dunard, Director MCCLL
Here is the memo....the PDF file that is attached is 14 pages and includes stats and photos...I can email it to anyone interested....it's 1.3MB
From the Director: The CMC's White Letter 05-08 directs a safety stand-down
be completed and directs the use of recent actual motorcycle fatalities
scenarios. HQMC Safety has the scenarios on their website; I have included
those scenarios in this newsletter for quick reference.
The high price of fuel is causing many Marines, Sailors, and civilians
to find cheaper ways to get to and from work. In some states, the cost of
a gallon of gas has peaked at well over four dollars, so many people are
choosing motorcycles as their primary transportation mode. However, as
ownership increases, so does the number of inexperienced riders and
accidents.
Last year, the Marine Corps and Navy lost 37 lives in motorcycle
accidents (18 Navy/19 Marines), with speed being the major cause. This year
to date, 48 Marine and Sailors have died in motorcycles accidents (25
Navy/23 Marines), with July being one of the deadliest months; and speed
again is the major cause of accidents and death. I can't stress enough the
importance of proper training and protective equipment. Remember safety
starts with you!
Whether your bike is only for recreation or your primary means of
getting to work, get trained, wear the proper PPE, and obey the speed
limits. You are welcome to pass on and post this newsletter for widest
dissemination. Log on the www.mccll.usmc.mil website to download previous
editions of the Marine Corps Center for Lessons Learned Safety Corner as
well as our Monthly Newsletters. I look forward to your comments so we can
raise awareness, reduce risk and maintain a high level of readiness.
Semper Fidelis,
Col Monte Dunard, Director MCCLL
FJR1300Mark
Well-known member
In Norfok and Virginia Beach you cannot bring a motorcycle on the base unless you can prove you have completed the Motorcycle Safety Foundation basic class. This has been in place for several years and I would think it is for all bases not just our local ones. Sounds like they feel they need more training beyound this. We too see many young men and women buy the sportbike which is faster than anything they have ever driven before and then just go for it. I hope the increased education helps.
extrememarine
Well-known member
The Marine Corps has purchased a "Sport-bike" class that MSF developed to address the specific defiecencies we've seen in our M/C mishaps (inexperienced riders on high performance sportbikes). II MEF (Camp Lejuene) jump started this by contracting Keith Code & CSS to develope a course for the MEF to present to peer riders. I was fortunate enough to attend one of those classes last September just before EOM. The idea was for the riders who attend to take it back and spread the word to younger, less experienced riders. They addressed higher speed braking & cornering techniques. The MSF sportbike course picks up the slack by having the ability to touch all sportbike riders, and will be required training soon.
One simple fact is driving this; we lose more Marines at home to off duty recreation & POV mishaps than in combat. This has been a steady statistic for some time now.
Semper Fi,
-wr
One simple fact is driving this; we lose more Marines at home to off duty recreation & POV mishaps than in combat. This has been a steady statistic for some time now.
Semper Fi,
-wr
monk69
Well-known member
I'll never forget a drive safe poster on base in Vet Nam.
Shows a picture of a soldier with a rifle hanging in one hand,and a crunched letter in the other hand.
At the bottom of the poster was the message."We regret to inform that your family has been killed in a auto accident"
cadman
Well-known member
angus
Angus
Now all active duty and DOD personel are required to take the MSF test ever three years if you ride a sport bike it is a differant test.I just took the course again this month no big deal it was free and I got paid to ride. I work at . NAB Little Creek
E1Allen
Youngster
I have seen these guys riding their bikes in this class since I have been stationed at Bolling AFB(Bolling and Anacostia are attached). This has to do with other branches as well as the Marines and Navy, but as far as the Air Force is concerned I had to take a sport bike class before I could ride my bike, not just on base, but anywhere. That was at my last base. This base all you have to do as far as I know is take the basic course even for sportbikes.
I participated in a DOD Sport bike Riders forum a few months ago that brought together riders from all branches and riders to discuss everything about young sport bike riders in the military. Our information was directly briefed to the big wigs because they wanted to know why so many young troops are dying in motorcycle accidents. Basically the DOD is reaching out for anything to help us stay alive while riding. We basically told the military that making it impossible for military members to not ride bikes was out of the question because people would do it regardless of the consequences . FYI, This forum was geared towards the young sportbike riders, not cruisers. Another was to attempt to introduce DOD sponsored rides which gives riders a chance to ride together in a better setting instead of going balls to the wall like a lot of young military riders do. Another was offer classes for us to take to improve our driving skills.(Classes, Track days, ect. There is the basic and sport bike course, but there are others that could be offered for more advanced riding. One point the forum did get across that no 18-25yr old sport bike rider bought a sport bike to drive the speed limit because that is just retarted. All of us agreed that giving opportunities like riding at the track would give riders a chance to use their bikes in a safe and legal manner which in turn would give riders the thrill they need then be less apt to do crazy things not at the track. That's just part of what was covered but it's all I can remember off the top of my head.
Eric
I participated in a DOD Sport bike Riders forum a few months ago that brought together riders from all branches and riders to discuss everything about young sport bike riders in the military. Our information was directly briefed to the big wigs because they wanted to know why so many young troops are dying in motorcycle accidents. Basically the DOD is reaching out for anything to help us stay alive while riding. We basically told the military that making it impossible for military members to not ride bikes was out of the question because people would do it regardless of the consequences . FYI, This forum was geared towards the young sportbike riders, not cruisers. Another was to attempt to introduce DOD sponsored rides which gives riders a chance to ride together in a better setting instead of going balls to the wall like a lot of young military riders do. Another was offer classes for us to take to improve our driving skills.(Classes, Track days, ect. There is the basic and sport bike course, but there are others that could be offered for more advanced riding. One point the forum did get across that no 18-25yr old sport bike rider bought a sport bike to drive the speed limit because that is just retarted. All of us agreed that giving opportunities like riding at the track would give riders a chance to use their bikes in a safe and legal manner which in turn would give riders the thrill they need then be less apt to do crazy things not at the track. That's just part of what was covered but it's all I can remember off the top of my head.
Eric
docsulivan
Active member
Took the course last month as it is required for all active duty who own a sport bike. It was significantly more geared towards functional riding, leaning and quick stops than the BRC and ERC. There was only about 2 hrs of class time then lots of time on the "lemon lot" with sharp turns, decreasing radius turns and "S" curves,mostly 2nd gear speeds. Lots of fun to have the "mandatory" work day on the bike. I think it'll definitely help the folks brand new to sport bikes, mostly the youngsters who get the litre bikes as their first every rides. I had a good time and recommend it. Right now, my understanding is it's just active duty folks. The only slightly annoying thing is it is required to do the course every three years, but reviewing some basic techniques on a regular basis can't be all bad. My base is making a significant move towards rider safety as I am told there is $100K budgeted towards building a new course. Unfortunately, I am told it will be blacktop vs concrete, so won't be as good a ride surface as it could be. I expect as soon as MSF runs the course for a few years and work out the format it will become a civilian offered course. There is talk of MWR sponsored track days in the works as well.
Doc
Doc
dcarver
Well-known member
Rode north past Camp Pendleton, So Cal, last weekend. Saw a enlisted on a crotch rocket riding up the on ramp but my speed was up, he was accelerating. No thought other than 'nice safety vest'.
About a mile later, my sore Candy Butt Association ass was hurting, so I 'posted up'.
Imagine my surprise when, just to the left of me, in the fast lane, Mr. Enlisted posted up too.
No wheelie from him..
But I truly think he thought I was going to truly post up..
..and he was too..
then I didn't..
so neither did he.
Kind of a fun moment.
About a mile later, my sore Candy Butt Association ass was hurting, so I 'posted up'.
Imagine my surprise when, just to the left of me, in the fast lane, Mr. Enlisted posted up too.
No wheelie from him..
But I truly think he thought I was going to truly post up..
..and he was too..
then I didn't..
so neither did he.
Kind of a fun moment.
dragonchef
Well-known member
Here is a few shots of our crew here in Korea....I'm really proud to be able to ride with these great warriors...
on a ride with a local crew....the locals were too fast for me....
Next 2 shots at the northern limit line....second shot shows the actual cable across the road in the background...
One of the infiltration tunnels...now a tourist site....
at a roadside corn stand....the farmer would not take our money....
A group shot after a great ride
great times...
on a ride with a local crew....the locals were too fast for me....
Next 2 shots at the northern limit line....second shot shows the actual cable across the road in the background...
One of the infiltration tunnels...now a tourist site....
at a roadside corn stand....the farmer would not take our money....
A group shot after a great ride
great times...
Kevin Daly
YES I ran the fatty over!!
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
From MPN:
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation has announced that its Military SportBike RiderCourse, which was developed in close collaboration with the U.S. Navy and U.S. Army safety centers, is now available to all branches of the Department of Defense.
Developed to address the increasing number of military personnel who are involved in sportbike crashes, the MSF Military SportBike RiderCourse is a next-level training course for military riders who have completed the MSF Basic RiderCourse. The one-day course consists of approximately three hours of classroom interactive lessons and four hours of on-cycle range time.
"The goal is to provide riders with a way to further develop personal riding strategies and decision-making abilities to help them minimize their risk," says Dr. Ray Ochs, MSF director of training systems.
MojaveFJR
Well-known member
There is no pratical with this course as with the MSF. SO, they get nothing but classroom instruction about late apexing, front brake control, low speed handling.
A friend of mine is going through the MSF instructor Cert process right now and told me about this class last week. He doesn't know if or how they will implement a practical for this course. Hard to teach some one proper cornering/leaning on a piece of paper.
BUT, this a step in the right direction I guess. Next step will be to reserve a track somewhere for the day and give them a good Lvl 1&2 Kieth Code condenced course on how to handle, corner and brake these machines.
A friend of mine is going through the MSF instructor Cert process right now and told me about this class last week. He doesn't know if or how they will implement a practical for this course. Hard to teach some one proper cornering/leaning on a piece of paper.
BUT, this a step in the right direction I guess. Next step will be to reserve a track somewhere for the day and give them a good Lvl 1&2 Kieth Code condenced course on how to handle, corner and brake these machines.
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