Need Advice

[James Burleigh]

...so as not to cook the clutch and tranny.

Seems my transmission bits and pieces are in just about the worst condition Zac's ever seen.

My shifting knowledge came from some guy when I was 16 letting me ride his bike and saying "Pull this in, click that there, and twist over here."

What is the correct way to husband a clutch and transmission while achieving spirited performance???

 

[FJRBluesman]

Do I dare say it.... an AE?

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Just kidding Hans. You need a heavy duty tranny. :dribble: Well that sounded funny didn't it?

 

[Khunajawdge]

How do I say this?

It takes a certain fffiinesss!!!???

When I started my motorsports career, I was involved in helping chop a 1952 Willy's jeep down into a creek buggy for working a dove hunting blind on Corralitos Creek with Eddie, a classmate of mine when we were 12. Goal was to go hunting for dove with Eugene (Eddie's older brother), with our 410's. Eugene bought the old used Willy's 'cause neither Eddie nor I had a job of substance yet. Eugene changed tires at Lloyd's of Watsonville (his job), and was over 16 with a license, so he bought the Jeep. After purchase, lots of chopping went on with an Oxy/Acetylene cutting torch until we had liberated the Jeep of most of it's body parts. Took the stuf we chopped off to the dump. The Jeep's firewall and dash remained. After welding a couple sets of rims together to mount up as under inflated dualies, the "thing" ended up a short ATV flatbed, purty much stripped of it's original identity (not street legal). We lived on the creek so driving legal wasn't a problem back then. 1" plywood plank served as the floor, after which we lag bolted the stock seats down to. The rear end was a square tail to carry the game and other stuff like a well strapped spare front tire, jack and hand operated tire pump. The year was 1962, (no seat belts BTW). Running that creek, was where I learned to use a double clutch on the floor with a 3 on the column.

That is also where I learned to listen to the Dag-Gummed engine, and make a serious choice as to when to move to another gear. Downshifting was harder as we were usually already in a four wheel drift over boulders the size of our headz, so we usually just hung on to what ever we could onboard, and drifted through no matter who was drivin' :dribble: . Eugene did most of the drivin' but that creek buggy was how I learned to drive 3.5 years B-4 I was legal. We wrecked that jeep to a total and had it towed to the wrecker. Suspension couldn't handle the thrashing. Anyways, that was sooooooo kewel. Thanks Eugene! :clapping:

D'oh I'm not sure why? but I'm still alive today. I lived every minute with gusto on that creek buggy! :clapping:

There are guys on this Forum that can explain how an engine must sound/feel before you shift, to the Nth degree, So anny up you guys. This could be fun to help out JB. :yahoo:

Oh, my '05 FJR shifts like a "snicker", compared to the "hammer/blunderbus" V-Strom 1000 that I commute 20 miles daily on. The Zook is so rough to shift, that I expect to be left stranded (metaphorically) up a creek, one of these days.

 

[TomInPA]

Hans, just release the clutch and roll. I never saw you lift the front end anyway, so slipping the clutch is not the path to spirited performance or longevity.

I look forward to seeing you back on the road soon, but don't wear that pointed hat. :glare:

 

[wfooshee]

The engine doesn't have to stay over 5 grand all the time. It'll pull strongly from idle speed, but you want to keep at least 2000 RPM in it.

Clutch slipping is for slow speeds only. If the bike is fast enough to maintain at least 2,000 RPM, you don't need to slip the clutch. Don't scream the engine while slipping the clutch. That speed difference between the driving and driven sides of the clutch is what fries it.

Don't slip the clutch just to avoid downshifting, and don't slip to keep engine speed up over 5,000 RPM. It's fine at 2,000. Really. If it goes lower, then downshift. If you're already all the way down to first, that's when you start slipping if you need to keep moving, but again, limit the engine speed to just enough.

When slow riding in the friction zone, the clutch, not the throttle, is speed control. Pull in the clutch to slow down, ease it out to speed up. A little bit of throttle adjustment goes with that, but you don't speed up by giving it gas and slipping the clutch harder. Let the clutch out as soon as it can take it.

As for shifting, when it feels good you just know. I don't know how to describe it. In city traffic I've been known to shift up at as low as 3,000 RPM, but shifts are better with at least 4,000.

You can shift clutchless, but if it isn't smooth, it's bad. Personally I upshift clutchless if I've got some RPMs in there, but not when slowly creeping with traffic. I've done the clutchless downshifting but I don't like it; I always clutch when downshifting.

 

[Patriot]

ITS NOT YOUR FAULT

some component was not up to snuff in your tranny

as long as you actually use the clutch for shifting,

any damaging error, over a long time, would be spitting you off the bike

or causing any fellow rider to decline to ride with you again

I mean, bad clutching means locking up the rear tire on downshifting and spitting you off in a high side

or dumping the clutch in a screaming start or upshift throwing the front wheel up in the air some amount

that upsets the bike

Again, if you were unaware of a bad shifting/clutching habit without clunks, bad sounds, or bad feedback feels to your left boot

it's the bike's "fault"

don't be down on yourself, be down on the unfortune of getting a lemon clutch and/or tranny part

I used to be too lazy, or thought I was a hot shot, and for many many miles didn't use the clutch to shift up or down..."can't find it, grind it" attitude when moving

no issues in 10k miles of that

just my 1.5 cents

 

[FJRBluesman]

I must have missed something here or on another thread. Did JB say he slips the clutch? And slips it at those RPMs?

Maybe he’s just power shifting. Not sure how he rides and why his clutch went kaput, but it did.

We just need to help him find a new scoot! :yahoo:

 

[redtail]

For me , it's always been practice, practice, practice! Each bike I've had has been different.

 

[redtail]

MSF Basic RiderCourse

MSF Experienced RiderCourse (x2)

Reg Pridmore CLASS Motorcycle School

StreetMasters Precision Cornering Workshop

Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Clinic

0

I don't know how fast you're trying to go, but for me, I'm usually thinking too much! I try to relax, shut off the noise, and feel the motor. I just try to shift as smooth as possible. Then practice doing that faster.

 

[Fairlaner]

Hans did no one ever tell you....5K and just let the clutch go......well once anyway.

And how did u ever make it thru all those classes without someone mentioning it....

R

 

[BwanaDik]

It might have to do with your gazillion miles of lane splitting. ("Dancing in the Dark"?)

Think about it, what's your normal lane splitting technique?

Do you pull in the clutch when you're creeping between cars? Don't. It never ceases to amaze me how slow I can go on my AE without stalling/stopping and still be able to accelerate smartly away from a virtual idle. The clutch remains engaged. No reason you can't do that on a bike with a clutch. Matter of fact, I started practicing on my Trophy 900 with the same technique. Again, amazing how slow I can go without pulling in the clutch. Just takes practice BEFORE you do it between cars.

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

As others have said, just a little throttle, as you feel the clutch start to pull the bike, then let the clutch out as you roll the throttle on. Use the clutch for shifting the transmission, not for adjusting your rate of travel. Use the throttle for those speed adjustments.

The reason I'm responding is that I recall watching one of Hans' videos a few months back, and couldn't believe the sound of high rpms and riding the clutch while splitting traffic, at varying rates of speed. Once you're rolling, leave the clutch alone, other than for shifting. Sorry for ripping on you, but long ago, somebody trained you poorly. Maybe you could ride as a passenger on someone else's FJR, and get used to the sound and feel of a properly shifted and throttled FJR.

You can do it. Go get 'em!

 

[Goody]

I do a lot of my upshifting sans clutch. I just back out of the throttle a little to unload the gear box, then snick the shift lever with the toe. When using the clutch the technique is the same, back off the throttle pull the clutch, tap the shifter. I do not as a rule use the transmission as a brake, instead relying on the 3 excellent disks that Yamaha provided. As I approach a light I pull the clutch fully in, down shifting all the way to second. When I am about stopped I will find first or neutral, depends how my left hand is feeling. The biggest change I have made since I began riding this bike is to hold the clutch in as the bike warms up. This pretty much eleiminates the CLUNK when you first put it into gear. As others have said, you can usually negotiate traffic without too much slipping of the clutch. The computer will keep the engine at 1000 RPM, regardless of what gear. Let the bike roll at that low speed, whether first or second gear. Be ready on the cluth, but don't drive with any pressure on the lever.

 

[wfooshee]

I must have missed something here or on another thread. Did JB say he slips the clutch? And slips it at those RPMs?

The reason I'm responding is that I recall watching one of Hans' videos a few months back, and couldn't believe the sound of high rpms and riding the clutch while splitting traffic, at varying rates of speed.

SwollenRacoon's response refers to the same vids I'd seen before. Creeping between stopped cars, engine screaming. My brother watched it and said no big deal, but in his deadpan sarcasm tht is easily taken for really meaning what he said.

I can't explain the broken tranny bits, but I can sure explain his clutch wear issues.

So Hans, unless you're shifting or down to walking speed, don't touch the clutch.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I have nothing to add...except admiration for you Hans. Opening up this possble Pandora's box and taking whatever comes from THIS community.

Obviously, you are a skilled rider...and don't need any help in that department. Take whatever nugget you get here, like from SwollenRaccoon, and ignore the rest.

Have fun on your new bike, whatever it is. Sorry I didn't get to meet you when I was out here....

I guess it will have to be next time...whenever that happens to be.

 

[ScottyUSN]

If you have to pay for a new clutch and you are going to remain harsh on it in order to enjoy your existing riding style. Checkout the Barnett aftermarket clutch plate and spring kit.

I believe it's comparable in price to OEM.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...so as not to cook the clutch and tranny. What is the correct way to husband a clutch and transmission while achieving spirited performance???

(clutch) Physics 101 -- think: "(The Law of) Conservation of Matter and Energy."

At 'X' RPM the FJR's crankshaft has 'X' HP available for use -- the clutch delivers that HP (via the trans.) to the rear wheel. If there's a great differential between the crankshaft speed (HP) and trans./rear wheel speed, the clutch must convert that extra energy into heat.

The FJR's clutch (most clutches) can withstand abuse at low speed/low speed differentials -- it's when they're asked to do too much they suffer.

(transmission) The FJR's gearbox, once underway, doesn't care if there's a clutch or not --

'Goody'...just back out of the throttle a little to unload the gear box

The FJR's gears are, unlike most std.-trans autos, always en-meshed (constant-mesh) and only need to be locked and un-locked to their respective transmission shafts.

Although many m/c gearboxes can be shifted, clutchless, at full-power -- that sort of use may not do the gearbox any favors?

A simple brief "unload" is all that's necessary.

(although not necessary -- the clutch can also provide that "unload")

Ride with 'verve' and 'elan' -- you're "dancing", not driving a truck...

 

[Neil San Diego]

Clutch slipping is for slow speeds only.

^^This.

There really isn't any need to continuously slip the clutch in any gear other than 1st.

 

[beemerdons]

Clutch slipping is for slow speeds only.

^^This.

There really isn't any need to continuously slip the clutch in any gear other than 1st.

+1: Neil & Walt are right on, 1st gear for slipping and solid engagement for the rest!