Need More Brakes!

[madmike2]

Well, I looked a little further into some of the suggestions that were really meant to help. I did bleed the front brakes, and while I did not get a noticable air pocket released, it did seem to help a bit. I then took the bike to a local practice spot, and found the front ABS engagement point. While this engagement point is at solid braking level, it is not as high as I would like just the same, but I will ride accordingly.
For clarity, there was no accident through good fortune only - I had NO outs left; the cager kept coming into me in such a way that my escape routes were being removed one by one. At the very end, I was able to get by with MAYBE an inch or two to spare between hard curbs/trees and the cars front bumper. It was a bizarre situation - the driver was not looking at me at all - distracted with something. I was actually trying to find the least painful dismount place at this point while squeezing the FJR thru the last little bit of space. It was surreal, and it was happening in slow motion. I did not panic, but simply ran out of room and choices in that 2-3 seconds while doing the best I could to stop.

To those who want to just slam others, I truly hope you are never in this type of situation. It is terribly unsettling when you find you are not immortal and despite your practiced skills and experience, you can buy it at almost any time. Over the last 10 years or so, I have ridden an average of 30,000 miles a year. I have been riding actively for 35+ years, and I am confident my skills are at least above average. I have the pleasure (mostly) of test riding many new bikes each year for my job. I work for a bike aftermarket company, and in '09 alone, I have ridden: Honda 09 CBR1000, 09 CBR600, Fury, Kawasaki ZX6, ZX14, Concours 14, Versys, Ninja 650, Ninja 250, Vulcan Voyager, Nomad and Classic, Harley Street Glide, Ultra Glide, Sportster, Dyna, Softail and XR1200, Suzuki Hayabusa, GSXR 1000 and 600, M109R and C109R, SV650, Yamaha FJR (mine and work), 08 and 09 R1's, R6, V-Star 950, Raider, Warrior, VMAX (!), Ducati 1098, Hypermotard, and Streetfighter.

I do know how front brakes and suspension work (or don't). I think I was probably "calibrated" for the 1-2 finger monobloc stopping monsters that I ride regularly at work, and was probably not ready for the pull required to fully engage the front. I won't make that mistake again. I enjoy the FJR a lot, but it is not perfect. It is tall, top heavy and cannot manuver or stop like a superbike. It can take trips beautifully, and it is a great daily rider, and that is why I own it. I just need to ride it the way it was meant to be ridden, and stay in touch with it every time I get on it.

Thanks to all who gave positive sugestions, they were helpful.

Ride safe!

Andy, thanks for taking the "high road".

You're right about one thing, riding different bikes takes some adjustment. The FJR will never react to inputs like a sport bike will. It's just too "portly".

 

[brianl]

I think the ABS may come more than you think. I wear a AM radio while riding to work. I (think) hear the ABS "chatter " interferance once in a while braking (soft) over bumps and in potholes. I think brake lines may help if the bike was older, I think Yamaha recomemds replacing the brake lines after 4 years. So just wait to do until 2012, just do it before Dec 2012. I think we are suppose to die around that time.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Well you should do just fine here Andy S!

You have remained calm an logical under the circumstances. Your clarity on your last post was much more informational. Yes we have all been there and if not we will some day. My brother law wasn't so lucky heading into Boston this week. Some bent parts and a few stitches and he's good as new. Just took his eyes off the road for a few seconds.

Welcome to the Asylum.

 

[Fred W]

I think the ABS may come more than you think. I wear a AM radio while riding to work. I (think) hear the ABS "chatter " interferance once in a while braking (soft) over bumps and in potholes. I think brake lines may help if the bike was older, I think Yamaha recomemds replacing the brake lines after 4 years. So just wait to do until 2012, just do it before Dec 2012. I think we are suppose to die around that time.

The rear ABS activates pretty often on me when braking while downshifting aggressively. The fronts never, unless in a full panic stop.

Oh and I'm definitely planning on riding in 2013...

 

[Warchild]

Guess I'll just stick with the stock pads and try to apply them earlier.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Excellent!!

Now that most of the angst in this thread seems to have abated... let's fire it up again! B)

The REAL reason the FJR brakes feel sub-optimal to the more performance-oriented among us is due to the POS dated technology you are squeezing.... a plain-jane, old-school conventional master cylinder.

Serious braking calls for serious hardware..... like this state-of-the-art Brembro Radial Master Cylinder:

Too bad this gorgeous hardware wouldn't help you poor ABS dudes that much....

There... that oughta help..... B)

 

[majicmaker]

Hey Howie!! Here it is!! I found it!! :yahoo:

 

[RadioHowie]

Too bad this gorgeous hardware wouldn't help you poor ABS dudes that much....

Enlighten the less-than-technically-proficient among us...

Why not?

 

[Fred W]

Tie wraps on the reservoir line?

Sheesh...

 

[Warchild]

Too bad this gorgeous hardware wouldn't help you poor ABS dudes that much....

Enlighten the less-than-technically-proficient among us...

Why not?

Well, my comment was a little bit specious, but the fact is, LBS-ABS dudes have a significant amount of plumbing, valving, solenoids, etc compare to non-LBS-ABS dudes, who enjoy "clean", uninterrupted hydraulic circuits. All the ABS-specific hardware seems to contribute to a more kinder, gentler, slightly spongy braking feel compared to conventional brake system that is using braided stainless steel lines and a modern radial master cylinder.

I know there was a ABS kit for the Gen I bikes, and I would have thought by now there would be a SS brake kit for the Gen II LBS-ABS bikes... no? I would imagine that if you indeed were able to go through the complete ***-pain of installing SS lines all around for the LBS-ABS system, researched and procured a kick-*** radial master cylinder such as the above Brembro unit, and then performed a god-like, tediously exacting bleeding operation, one that removed every trace of air throughout the entire system... then I'm guessing you'd definitely would notice a difference.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I gotta dash out the door... still trying to depart for WFO....

 

[Warchild]

Tie wraps on the reservoir line?
Sheesh...

HEY!! Do you know how many milligrams of weight I saved using those over steel spring clamps, huh, Huh, HUH?!!!

That's right... I am all about contributing to excellent power-to-weight ratio numbers....

[SIZE=8pt]That, and I am too lazy to order proper clamps....[/SIZE]

 

[Fred W]

Tie wraps on the reservoir line?
Sheesh...

HEY!! Do you know how many milligrams of weight I saved using those over steel spring clamps, huh, Huh, HUH?!!!

That's right... I am all about contributing to excellent power-to-weight ratio numbers....

Har!!

Go enjoy yourself at WFO!!

 

[TruWrecks]

The EBC pads are a bit of an improvement on braking but they are hell on rotors. I just had to replace mine. Two sets of stock pads in 60k and the rotors were fine and 15k on the EBC pads and the rotors were history.

+50 on that. 90k on one set of stock pads and the rotors were not significantly worn. 19k on EBCs and the rotors are getting visibly thin. Not sure they will last thru the pads.

Great response Andy!

On the rotor issue, Yes HH pads will eat the stock rotors. I warped the stock rotors on my Busa in 8k miles, some of it on a road race track, using EBC HH pads. The stock rotors were warped 4mm out of factory tollerance. I replaced them with Galfer rotors. The Galfers are now eating the EBC HH pads. I'd hate to see what Galfers would do to OEM pads. I don't have enough miles on them yet to give an estimate of mileage. The brakes on the Busa are now so touchy I almost went over the front end avoiding a panic braker a few days after I got the rotors on. They definitely reduce user effort. The ABS might have fits with that much bite. I'll have to try that setup when the brakes on the FJR need attention again.

 

[mdisher]

I know there was a ABS kit for the Gen I bikes, and I would have thought by now there would be a SS brake kit for the Gen II LBS-ABS bikes... no?

Yep it exists...

FJR130003 - 07similar orig. with ABS w. 2-wayFront/Rear8S-YA0159$379.95

All lines (8) including all this short 4-10 inch lines that run around the ABS stuff in the middle of the bike.

The Spiegler folks are right up the street from me and they quoted 3 hours labor to install/bleed, etc.

I'm just not ready to drop close to $600 bones on new lines at the moment.

 

[v65]

Too bad this gorgeous hardware wouldn't help you poor ABS dudes that much....

Mark the date, Warchild's post isn't going to cost me anything. :clapping:

 

[BwanaDik]

Well, my comment was a little bit specious, but the fact is, LBS-ABS dudes have a significant amount of plumbing, valving, solenoids, etc compare to non-LBS-ABS dudes, who enjoy "clean", uninterrupted hydraulic circuits. All the ABS-specific hardware seems to contribute to a more kinder, gentler, slightly spongy braking feel compared to conventional brake system that is using braided stainless steel lines and a modern radial master cylinder.
I know there was a ABS kit for the Gen I bikes, and I would have thought by now there would be a SS brake kit for the Gen II LBS-ABS bikes... no? I would imagine that if you indeed were able to go through the complete ***-pain of installing SS lines all around for the LBS-ABS system, researched and procured a kick-*** radial master cylinder such as the above Brembro unit, and then performed a god-like, tediously exacting bleeding operation, one that removed every trace of air throughout the entire system... then I'm guessing you'd definitely would notice a difference.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I gotta dash out the door... still trying to depart for WFO....

While I was messing around in the innards of my bike while installing the Penske shock, seems I noticed that all of the brake line plumbing was hard piped, with the obvious exception to when it goes into the suspension. You can see the hard piping going by the headset on the right side. No? No doubt the longer lengths will contribute a small amount to the spongieness but there are no rubber bits until you get outboard of the frame.

 

[Warchild]

While I was messing around in the innards of my bike while installing the Penske shock, seems I noticed that all of the brake line plumbing was hard piped, with the obvious exception to when it goes into the suspension. You can see the hard piping going by the headset on the right side. No? No doubt the longer lengths will contribute a small amount to the spongieness but there are no rubber bits until you get outboard of the frame.

My speculation is that if just the rubber portions of the existing Gen-II lines could be swapped out, leaving either hard lines or new SS lines, the net effect would be pretty close to the Spiegler approach of "replace 'em all".

I'd be surprised if Galfer doesn't make a Gen-II line kit for just the front calipers, as they did for the Blackbird's 11-line LBS system.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Ya know... I wish you admins would hit the road to WFO so we could cause some **** here baldy. Besides haven't you created enough grief for Howie by messin' with this thread?

Oh, I'll send ya the money for a set of decent looking clamps, or a least a pile of chrome zip ties... Geesh. :blink:

:jester:

 

[fjr183]

DP made pads for the 06, I don't know if they are changed for 08 & 09's.

They were almost half the price of OEM and stopped much better, with less brake dust, and not the wear too the rotors.

Fred

 

[ian]

So just wait to do until 2012, just do it before Dec 2012. I think we are suppose to die around that time.

Why not do it after Dec 2012; that way if we all die, you won't have wasted the $$. Ian, Iowa

 

[Cdogman]

Tie wraps on the reservoir line?
Sheesh...

HEY!! Do you know how many milligrams of weight I saved using those over steel spring clamps, huh, Huh, HUH?!!!

That's right... I am all about contributing to excellent power-to-weight ratio numbers....

[SIZE=8pt].[/SIZE]

Smartass shows i us his sizzluki while talking about Yammys..

Dont you have a long ride to go on or something?? <_<