New cruise control get flaky with time/miles

[MKO]

Took some of the above advice in checking for interference and proper routing. Repositioned the bracket to allow more throttle travel. It seems to kick off less frequently than before, but still NFG. Works better in cool temps (if memory serves) than warm, but had to rely on $19 vista cruise on last 2 iron butts.

 

[bmwhd]

Took some of the above advice in checking for interference and proper routing. Repositioned the bracket to allow more throttle travel. It seems to kick off less frequently than before, but still NFG. Works better in cool temps (if memory serves) than warm, but had to rely on $19 vista cruise on last 2 iron butts.

Until proven wrong, I'll continue to believe this is either A) binding at the throttle cable/servo cable interface that is impacted by heat or B) spurious voltage on the brake circuit also somehow caused by heat soaking of some component (and my money is on A).

For theory A) what would be really cool would be to mount a helmet-style mini camera with light source under the heat shield to record servo cable operation during failure mode. Wish I had one to loan y'all.

Theory B) is much easier to check. Just wire another brake light in the form of a small lamp that you can see while riding.

 

[rfulcher]

You theory A and B are weak as both have been tested and disproved.

As a test I have run everything directly from the battery, all power and all ground leads. If you do this the AVCC only turns off manually as the brake system is totally out of the loop. I even had to turn off power to the switch by disconnecting the wire manually.

The servo connections on failing units are exactly the same as working units. Smitty has installed lots of units exactly alike and has the same problem with flaky CC units but only on a percentage of 06-07 bikes and only on 06-07 bikes. I have gone to great lengths to optimize my connections with no improvement. There was a recent post where a pulley was used to route the cable. This looked more efficient and I may try it. However I am not confident that this will help since I suspect it is a problem with the servo itself being marginal. I have no idea why only 06-07 units have this issue. Maybe this is associated with the different shape of the bellcrank on gen 2 bikes?

What I am really looking for is someone to switch a working servo into a bike with a flaky servo and see if it fixes the problem. Since I have bypassed all connections except for the vacuum (vacuum has been verified with a vacuum gauge on the bike while riding) and the servo cable (servo installation is the exactly the same on working and nonworking units). Others have used the magnetic pickup and this did not fix the problem so it is unlikely to be the signal from the coil as the problem. I suspect the servo, some servos may just be marginal. .

During the recent hot weather is seems that my AVCC get flaky much quicker in hot weather. I guess I will find out more when the weather gets cold.

Took some of the above advice in checking for interference and proper routing. Repositioned the bracket to allow more throttle travel. It seems to kick off less frequently than before, but still NFG. Works better in cool temps (if memory serves) than warm, but had to rely on $19 vista cruise on last 2 iron butts.

Until proven wrong, I'll continue to believe this is either A) binding at the throttle cable/servo cable interface that is impacted by heat or B) spurious voltage on the brake circuit also somehow caused by heat soaking of some component (and my money is on A).

For theory A) what would be really cool would be to mount a helmet-style mini camera with light source under the heat shield to record servo cable operation during failure mode. Wish I had one to loan y'all.

Theory B) is much easier to check. Just wire another brake light in the form of a small lamp that you can see while riding.

 

[BuilderBob]

After rerouting the throttle actuator cable to ensure no binding or hanging up, I'm fairly convinced that the problem doesn't lie there.

The brake circuit is of some interest. If you removed the brake lights for a test run, would you still be able to disengage the the CC by using the brakes? If not, you could eliminate the brake circuit as the source of the problem. If the CC were to work without disengaging unexpectedly under those conditions, you'd know that the brake circuit was the problem.

Who wants to try?

On second thought, is there a fuse for the brake lights? The test would probably be more conclusive if you could kill the whole circuit.

 

[rfulcher]

After rerouting the throttle actuator cable to ensure no binding or hanging up, I'm fairly convinced that the problem doesn't lie there.
The brake circuit is of some interest. If you removed the brake lights for a test run, would you still be able to disengage the the CC by using the brakes? If not, you could eliminate the brake circuit as the source of the problem. If the CC were to work without disengaging unexpectedly under those conditions, you'd know that the brake circuit was the problem.

Who wants to try?

On second thought, is there a fuse for the brake lights? The test would probably be more conclusive if you could kill the whole circuit.

Read my post above. I have tried and I have eleminated the whole circuit.

I have totally bypassed the brake circuit shut off to test this. I have eliminated bike electrics from the circuit completely by running all ground and power leads to the battery. This does make it interesting since when you hit the brakes the unit does not turn off :blink: and "fights" to stay on. If you bypass the brake system you have to turn it off manually at the switch unit or let the over-rev detection kick in when you pull in the clutch, ask me how I know?

 

[BuilderBob]

Read my post above. I have tried and I have eleminated the whole circuit.

Missed that. Guess we're still screwed! :blink:

 

[rfulcher]

I have yet to hear of anyone with DOFS (delayed onset flakyness syndrome) actually solving the problem. I might even take a servo apart to see if any thing looks wrong inside the servo. I am not an electronics guy so this is not likely to help. If somebody wanted to take one apart and test components under load I would be willing to ship a bad "spare" servo.

 

[bmwhd]

I have yet to hear of anyone with DOFS (delayed onset flakyness syndrome) actually solving the problem. I might even take a servo apart to see if any thing looks wrong inside the servo. I am not an electronics guy so this is not likely to help. If somebody wanted to take one apart and test components under load I would be willing to ship a bad "spare" servo.

I disagree that you've eliminated A) above. A marginal servo may be the ultimate cause but the "delayed" part of your problem could still be caused by binding you're not seeing that comes in to play when things heat up.

 

[rfulcher]

Can't say it is not a problem with the servo cable binding as heat builds. The servo and the servo cable connection is the only variable I have not been able to eliminate. But I have not been able to find any source of binding and my install is "cleaner" than many that work because I have had such a problem and have spent a lot of time optimizing the linkage. The other factor is that Smitty has done multiple installs with great success and is very familiar with the system. He has been not been able to resolve the issue when it presents with DOFS on 06-07 bikes.

Has anyone with this particular constellation of symptoms solved the problem?

Remember the major characteristic of this problem is delayed onset, 30 minutes of longer, before symptoms even start to show. I do think that the symptoms show faster on very hot days.

 

[Constant Mesh]

From the Audiovox Installation Manual --

A noise suppressor 'in series' with the blue wire keeps excessive electrical noise from "fooling" the cruise into disengaging. For this reason make sure all cruise control wiring is at least 1 ft. away from all electromagnetic sources such as: ignition wires, alternator, regulator, and all high current carrying conductors.

CAUTION : DO NOT MOUNT OR ROUTE WIRING HARNESSES OR KIT COMPONENTS ON OR NEAR ANY HOT, SHARP, OR MOVING SURFACES WITHIN THE VEHICLE.

You must also be sure that the cable is routed away from any hot, sharp, or moving components within the engine compartment.

Do Not mount servo on the engine !

This vacuum source must maintain at least a minimum of 6 inches of mercury vacuum. If the vacuum is lower than 6 inches while the pedal is depressed, then a vacuum canister must be used.

 

[rfulcher]

Well, Duh

And your point is?

Did you read any of the previous posts?

These issues have been assessed and addressed by others in various ways with out any change in the symptoms.

How about a constructive new suggestion instead of repeating the obvious from 100 posts prior.

From the Audiovox Installation Manual --
A noise suppressor 'in series' with the blue wire keeps excessive electrical noise from "fooling" the cruise into disengaging. For this reason make sure all cruise control wiring is at least 1 ft. away from all electromagnetic sources such as: ignition wires, alternator, regulator, and all high current carrying conductors.

CAUTION : DO NOT MOUNT OR ROUTE WIRING HARNESSES OR KIT COMPONENTS ON OR NEAR ANY HOT, SHARP, OR MOVING SURFACES WITHIN THE VEHICLE.

You must also be sure that the cable is routed away from any hot, sharp, or moving components within the engine compartment.

Do Not mount servo on the engine !

This vacuum source must maintain at least a minimum of 6 inches of mercury vacuum. If the vacuum is lower than 6 inches while the pedal is depressed, then a vacuum canister must be used.

 

[Constant Mesh]

My point in taking these excerpts from the manual is that the servo unit may be sensitive to elevated temperatures. You have described conditions where the unit wilts after the bike warms over time. The vacuum system should be unaffected by heat. The control pad should be unaffected by heat -- it's out in the ambient air stream. The electrical wiring should be unaffected by heat. The speed input should be unaffected by heat -- noise suppression resistor not next to hot coolant pipe? The brake light circuits should be unaffected by heat. The mechanical connections to the throttle should be unaffected by heat.

The only part of the system which might be affected by heat is the servo unit, including the electronics and electric solenoid valves contained within.

If the unit works OK before it gets hot the mechanical connections must be OK -- I don't think the servo cable would bind when it gets hot, unless it gets real, real hot.

Is it possible that the throttle offers more mechanical resistance when the mechanism gets hot?

 

[BuilderBob]

The only part of the system which might be affected by heat is the servo unit, including the electronics and electric solenoid valves contained within.

Mine is mounted under the seat. I don't think it gets very hot there.

Let's remember that these units are designed to be mounted in the engine compartments of cars and trucks where it DOES get hot. I've installed the same CC unit in two cars and two motorhomes in the past. None exhibited the failure discussed in this thread.

 

[Wirrklunk]

Add me to the list. 07 model with clutch.

Recently fitted avcc and it appeared to work fine. Then found a few hills and found it will work for a the first 20 seconds or so then drop out. It regulates perfectly upto this point doesn't even seem to drop by 1kmph. I bought the unit from Murphs kits and it had the vacuum canister included. It has been mounted under the seat. I did notice a weird voltage on the brake switch wire of 8.3 volts which turned to 12.3 volts when brake was activated. The bike has not been out in the rain. Most the connections are soldered exeption being the brake sensing wire as I was puzzled by the standing voltage. The day was cool 13C The bike had not been ridden above 4000 rpm and has 1200km on it.

Willing to try a few suggestions but it's :blink: not a desperate problem.

NSW OZ

 

[rfulcher]

It is probably only the same problem if it works perfectly under all conditions and then gradually gets worse after at least 20+ minutes. Unfortunately, more like fortunately, with quick failure with hills you have to go thru the whole Dx checklist, vacuume, cable linkage etc., but have a greater chance of getting it working. Delayed onset of flakyness is a *****, hope yours is not the same.

quote name='Wirrklunk' date='Aug 16 2007, 10:47 PM' post='290385']

Add me to the list. 07 model with clutch.

Recently fitted avcc and it appeared to work fine. Then found a few hills and found it will work for a the first 20 seconds or so then drop out. It regulates perfectly upto this point doesn't even seem to drop by 1kmph. I bought the unit from Murphs kits and it had the vacuum canister included. It has been mounted under the seat. I did notice a weird voltage on the brake switch wire of 8.3 volts which turned to 12.3 volts when brake was activated. The bike has not been out in the rain. Most the connections are soldered exeption being the brake sensing wire as I was puzzled by the standing voltage. The day was cool 13C The bike had not been ridden above 4000 rpm and has 1200km on it.

Willing to try a few suggestions but it's :blink: not a desperate problem.

NSW OZ

 

[bramfrank]

Hi;

I've been hedging on getting an Audiovox cruise control - had one for 4 yerars on the old Concours and it worked absolutely trouble-free. So I don't quite understand what the issue is with mounting them on the FJR?

Is the issue related to the fact that from what I can tell most people stick the servo ahead of the rear wheel and it is getting soaked? Is it moisture in the control pad? Is anyone mounting the servo under the overhot tank?

I saw that several people engaged in 'spective replacement' of the components - but never saw where the servo was implicated or absolved . . . .

Someone recently posted s photos and a description of an install with the servo under the pillion seat - fascinating. though you need to do some surgery to the bike to put it there - then again, my rear fender's been 'ectomied' and so it's already been chopped up.

Paying $600+ for the McCruise is a shame - it is just waaaay too expensive and it has more bits than the CCS-100 does with the separate control module - if it had been electrically adjustable and cost $250 (or more than twice what the AUdiovox does) I MIGHT be tempted - but $600+? Not me.

I'd like to have Skyway's mount and an Audiovox cruise on my bike - but considering that Audiovox (who probably sell most of their units to bikers) specifically declines to support or warranty bike installed units I tend to wonder.

Comments?

 

[ndivita]

Whatever the explanation, I am having the same experience with my Audiovox CC.

 

[rfulcher]

Hi;
I've been hedging on getting an Audiovox cruise control - had one for 4 yerars on the old Concours and it worked absolutely trouble-free. So I don't quite understand what the issue is with mounting them on the FJR?

Is the issue related to the fact that from what I can tell most people stick the servo ahead of the rear wheel and it is getting soaked? Is it moisture in the control pad? Is anyone mounting the servo under the overhot tank?

Mine is under the seat and has had DOFS (Delayed Onset of Flakyness Syndrome) in mainly dry weather. The servo does not get hot under the seat and I have ridden with the passenger seat off to increase cooling. It felt cool to touch when I checked.

I saw that several people engaged in 'spective replacement' of the components - but never saw where the servo was implicated or absolved . . . .

I have replaced everything. I ?think? the second servo was better than the old but still has DOSF. I wish I had recorded my 1st servo data and observation in writing, but I didn't. I would like to see someone replace a bad servo replace with a known good servo. My general impression is that mine works longer in cooler weather. I guess I will find out about this when the weather gets cold.

Someone recently posted s photos and a description of an install with the servo under the pillion seat - fascinating. though you need to do some surgery to the bike to put it there - then again, my rear fender's been 'ectomied' and so it's already been chopped up.

That post also used a sliding door pulley to route the servo cable to the bellcrank from the side. This might be more effecient and delay or prevent DOFS, I might try it but don't expect it to do much.

Paying $600+ for the McCruise is a shame - it is just waaaay too expensive and it has more bits than the CCS-100 does with the separate control module - if it had been electrically adjustable and cost $250 (or more than twice what the AUdiovox does) I MIGHT be tempted - but $600+? Not me.

I'd like to have Skyway's mount and an Audiovox cruise on my bike - but considering that Audiovox (who probably sell most of their units to bikers) specifically declines to support or warranty bike installed units I tend to wonder.

Comments?

McCruise is expensive but I might give it a try next year if I no one figures out the problem.

 

[rfulcher]

First I have heard of DOFS with a Gen1 bike. If more crop up it might start to point to the servo more than the bike?

Whatever the explanation, I am having the same experience with my Audiovox CC.

 

[Wirrklunk]

I have sent the following e-mail to Audiovox I didn't see if anyone else had don so. I am thinking of putting a relay on the brake trigger wire which will only trip when greater then say 12volt and put maybe a coil/capacitor filter on the power line. Maybe someone has done this?

There are a lot of people with problems using the Audiovox cruise control on the last two models of the Yamaha fjr1300. The list is here. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...0&start=100 Could we get some idea of where the problem may be so that we can work out a solution.

Hans