New VFR--Love MY FJR
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GreyGoose
Well-known member
It funny you would mention that. Most of us old st1100 / ST1300 owners use to talk about reducing the engine size to help reduce weight and give more ergonomic options. With technology today able to get 100+ ponies out of a 600cc bike, i just dont get the "bigger is better" phenomena any more. I think the 1275cc motor will certainly do the job, the big question remains to be what they'll build around it.
GreyGoose
FJRScorpion
Well-known member
The gas tank hump, mirrors, and big sides just don't do it for me. I like the look of the back half of the bike though, no comments please . Maybe a little decal work on those sides and aftermarket mirrors would change my mind... na I'll just stick with the FJR. 
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rfespinosa
Well-known member
I have an '08 FJR and an '08 VFR. I test rode the new 1200 VFR last week.
The 1200 VFR is a great bike: smooth, powerful, Honda quality, etc. The ergonomics seemed identical to my '08 VFR, meaning much more leaning forward than the FJR. I think it resembles the BMW K1300S more than anything else, they are both sport / touring with more emphasis on sport.
This new Honda has BMW pricing. It is $16k standard. Add color matched cases, heated grips, and a center stand, and the price is $18k. The bags are $1,400. ABS is standard.
If Honda comes out with a more touring version to replace the ST, then Honda will have copied BMW with its K1300S and K1300GT - the same bike with different ergonomics and std bags on one of them.
I see only one advantage for the new VFR over my FJR: the engine vibration is much smoother. In every other point, the FJR is better or equal.
FJR better: price, fuel capacity and range, throttle response (VFR seemed like '07 FJR), adjustable windshield, storage.
FJR/VFR are equal: seat of the pants power (magazine tests say VFR better), handling, weight.
Unknown: issues will surface about this new VFR, first year models blues.
VFR ergonomics is a matter of preference, it is much more sporty / lean forward. This helps handling in the twisties. I very much notice that on my '08 VFR.
Ron
The 1200 VFR is a great bike: smooth, powerful, Honda quality, etc. The ergonomics seemed identical to my '08 VFR, meaning much more leaning forward than the FJR. I think it resembles the BMW K1300S more than anything else, they are both sport / touring with more emphasis on sport.
This new Honda has BMW pricing. It is $16k standard. Add color matched cases, heated grips, and a center stand, and the price is $18k. The bags are $1,400. ABS is standard.
If Honda comes out with a more touring version to replace the ST, then Honda will have copied BMW with its K1300S and K1300GT - the same bike with different ergonomics and std bags on one of them.
I see only one advantage for the new VFR over my FJR: the engine vibration is much smoother. In every other point, the FJR is better or equal.
FJR better: price, fuel capacity and range, throttle response (VFR seemed like '07 FJR), adjustable windshield, storage.
FJR/VFR are equal: seat of the pants power (magazine tests say VFR better), handling, weight.
Unknown: issues will surface about this new VFR, first year models blues.
VFR ergonomics is a matter of preference, it is much more sporty / lean forward. This helps handling in the twisties. I very much notice that on my '08 VFR.
Ron
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
Hmmm..., that's a first (at least, in my experience) -- I wonder if that's a feature, then?
Pity the poor guy who discovers that the only valves that require adjustment are the ones that also require camshaft removal...
bikerkash
Well-known member
It is without doubt a very interesting bike that will draw a lot of attention but as others on this site have said it is way over priced and under equipped, what is it? There are too many other bikes that will out perform it in terms of pure performance, touring capablities, and are a better value. It does not appear that it will be the best at any one thing. I guess we will soon see.
Aasland
Depleted
It is a feature .. "UniCam". One cam for both intake and exhaust, I'm guessing less complexity and weight.Hmmm..., that's a first (at least, in my experience) -- I wonder if that's a feature, then?
Pity the poor guy who discovers that the only valves that require adjustment are the ones that also require camshaft removal...
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Aasland
Depleted
That is probably the defining feature of past VFR's - although not a master of one trade, it's a jack of many, and it did many of them very well.
Our little community here is touring-oriented and thus we tend to view the VFR as an insufficient touring mount. The sportbike communities see it as a slow and porky sportbike. The common element from each community is that they judge it to the standard of their communities. Even the VFR community judges it compared to their existing bikes: Too heavy, too expensive.
I think it comes down what we value in a motorcycle. The FJR excels at riding in comfort. It does that better than the VFR, so there's not a whole of reason for any FJR-owners to jump ship.
Personally ... I think it's a great bike, and the more I read about it the more I wish I could have one. It solves many of my complaints I have about the FJR, but it still doesn't address the main issue which forced me to the more touring focused FJR.
iliveforcurves
Active member
I think the category the new VFR falls in is "Gentleman's Express". It will appeal to people that want a refined high tech motorcycle.
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RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
Good point-of-view....much like most late-model Jaguars, Aston-Martins, BMWs and Audis.
IOW, luxo-barges with sports-car-smelling air fresheners hanging from the mirrors.
Graham Downunder
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I though I would like the new VFR1200 but I think the Ducati Multistrada 1200 is much better and about 250# less in weigh it will blow a VFR1200 away on every surface road, dirt, curves, racetrack and city streets . Honda layed an egg and priced it so high people will just pay a little more for a BMW . What are manufactures thinking in a tight economic times raise the prices and people will buy it ,I think NOT . I think a few people will wait for the dual clutch model and see if it worth it . By the way the VFR1200 in Australia is about $ 25,500 Australian dollars ( US $ 23,700 ) so it is about $1500 dearer than a FJR1300 . A BMW 1300S is only $26,000 ,buy the way these are all 2010 model prices .
LancasterFJR
Well-known member
In no way can Ducati products compare with Honda in terms of fit and finish, reliability and durability. Honda dealership network is vast compared to the few Ducati ones. I know this because I have a 2009 Monster 1100S, whose price with the Termignoni slip-ons is over $17,000. The new Multistarada is a very interseting bike, but has too many electronic gadgets, the mirrors vibrate fiercely and no one is likely to take it to fire roads at that price. It is also $4000 more than the VFR1200. My GF rides a VFR800. I love that bike. May be it does not fall neatly into a particular category, but it does every thing very well as mentioned above. If the the VFR1200 is an improvement on the 800, then I think Honda has a winner. Yes it is expensive, but almost all comparable bikes have crossed the 15K mark. I saw this ans was quite impressed ( my French is limited , but you'll get the ppoint):
. I also saw this: https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/103/6253/Mot...First-Ride.aspx. Just my 2 cents.
Graham Downunder
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Yes I think Honda has a great reputation for fitt and finish that is probably the best in the Industry . I just do not think it will hold a candle to the Ducati as the weight difference is so great (About 170 pounds ) the ducati with bags is 72% of the weight of the Honda BIG difference . As for price there is about a $4-7,000 (depends on country) difference from the standard Ducati to the one with the electronic push button Olhin suspension.I think the Olhin suspension will better than Honda,s . The Honda only has 18.5 litre tank the Ducati 20 litres both no realy enough for touring .The Honda has more power and Torque but until you ride both bikes it is hard to see which is more usable in the real world . As for the Ducati not going down fire trails well people do it with BMW 1200GS and they are more $$ personally I think some people are NUTS and have more money than common sense . I will stick with my Vstrom for light Off road or get a proper DIRT bike . Time will tell how both sell
charismaticmegafauna
Well-known member
Oh, thanks -- I forgot about Honda's "UniCam" design...It is a feature .. "UniCam". One cam for both intake and exhaust, I'm guessing less complexity and weight.Hmmm..., that's a first (at least, in my experience) -- I wonder if that's a feature, then?
Pity the poor guy who discovers that the only valves that require adjustment are the ones that also require camshaft removal...
While it does have advantages where space is at a premium (MX...), it's not what tuners and those that would hold engineering/design principles in high-regard would consider 'state of the art' -- that would be, IMO, "double knocker" DOHC (the system employed by Yamaha in the FJR, and others).
Still, UniCam is not without merit -- although 'simplicity' is somewhat compromised when one considers the addition of roller-rocker-arms. And, tuners and engine 'purists' love DOHC for the ultimate adjustability of valve timing events (tho, not much of that is done in the FJR community... :huh: ).
At least Honda's foray into the engineering 'dark-side' isn't nearly as compromised as BMW's new 2010 R1200 cylinder head design which incorporates both intake and exhaust cam-lobes on one camshaft to give them (what they stretch to describe as) DOHC. Not only that -- the cam lobes are (severely) conically ground to operate valves that are located and 2 dimensions (both X and Y angles) -- so that they can advertise "Radial" valve design.
It's all pretty 'heroic' to me...
