North Carolina Speeding Ticket

[Nikk]

So I'm cruising into the Smokey Mountains of NC and an Officer running the opposite direction on US-74 gets a radar shot on my FJR in the left lane, next to a 4-wheeler, and an FZ1 behind me and closing.

Officer pulls me over and writes me up for 70 in a 55. :angry2:

I asked how he determined that speed and asked to see the radar results. Officer claims he didn't save the reading and couldn't show me.

Does NC law require the Officer to display this data if asked?

Also are Officers required to keep their target in sight, because all three vehicles turned the corner before he finished crossing the grass median?

Since I was making a left, I was the first vehicle the Officer caught up to. Meanwhile the FZ1 blasted down the road, followed by the 4-wheeler.

-Nikk

 

[FJRay]

I think they have to document the reading and the actual unit used with its calibration to make it stick in court. I could be totaly full of shit to so don't quote me.

 

[cougar8000]

If there was a 4-wheeler close to youand an FZ1 coming fast. He would have picked up most likely a 4-wheeler before getting a reading on you. I would fight this one. There is no way he can 100% percent with out a second thought say it was you.

 

[gregorytx]

They are not required to show you the reading. Some will, but it is their discretion. Most won't due to it being a safety issue. One, they have no idea who you are and don't particularly want you climbing inside their vehicle where all of their goodies are, and two, the longer you sit on the side of the road the better chance you have of getting run over. LEO's want to conclude stops as quickly as possible and send people on their way. Many agencies prohibit their officers from showing radar readings due to the above reasons. If you are looking at the reading and get whacked by a car the officer/agency is gonna be liable. That's the last thing they want. Not to be gruff, but most will tell you that the side of the road isn't the place to argue a ticket, that's for court. As far as how he picked you out of the crowd, that's something only he will know. Doppler radar picks up the fastest moving and/or largest target. Since you said both of ya'll were in motion I am assuming it was doppler and not laser. The agency is required to maintain calibration records but not reuired in all states to list the radar number/calibration info on citations. You can reuest that information usually through open records request with the issuing agency, or if u have an attorney they will request it.

 

[Grumpy]

So I'm cruising into the Smokey Mountains of NC and an Officer running the opposite direction on US-74 gets a radar shot on my FJR in the left lane, next to a 4-wheeler, and an FZ1 behind me and closing.
Officer pulls me over and writes me up for 70 in a 55. :angry2:

I asked how he determined that speed and asked to see the radar results. Officer claims he didn't save the reading and couldn't show me.

Does NC law require the Officer to display this data if asked?

Also are Officers required to keep their target in sight, because all three vehicles turned the corner before he finished crossing the grass median?

Since I was making a left, I was the first vehicle the Officer caught up to. Meanwhile the FZ1 blasted down the road, followed by the 4-wheeler.

-Nikk

Ask Jeff Ashe, I'll bet he knows.

Jim

 

[rcpd807]

In Virginia anyways, Officers do not have to keep the target vehicle in sight. They must be able to identify the vehicle and be positive that the vehicle they stopped was the one that was speeding. As far as showing the radar reading, on most radars, the speed clears once the vehicle is out of the scope of the radar. Some radars have a locking function, but I never use it. Radars should be checked at the beginning and end of the officers shift. This is done by using a 35mph and 65mph tuning fork. These tuning forks are generally calibrated at least every 6 months. When I go to court, if a defendant or attorney ask to see the tuning fork calibrations, then I am required to show it to them. Of course I was not there, but it is possible that all three of you were picked up on the radar if there was spacing between you. It was probably easier just to get the last vehicle. Again I was not there so can't comment on that one.

In my experience if the fork calibrations are current then there is not a lot to fight in court. Radars are so easy to use that a monkey could use it. Sometimes however the judge will reduce the speed on the ticket, which will lower the points on your license and your fine. I have also heard that if you get convicted of speeding 15 mph or over in North Carolina that the state automatically suspends your drivers license. :mellow:

 

[ROADHAZARD]

15 miles over in N.C. does not automaticlly get your license suspended, but it does get you a court date. At least thats what they did to me last year. I do live out of state though so that might make a difference. Hwy 74 in that area is heavily patrolled by the troppers. I've been busted there before several years ago for doing 70. Cost me 135.00 if i remember right.

 

[ponyfool]

No, there is no requirement to show you the reading. In most states, the radar is merely confirmation of the already observed excessive speed. Thus, officer sees speeder, uses radar to confirm speed, pulls violator over.

When an officer sees a group of vehicles together and is using radar, the only way he can accurately testify as to who the speeder was, is if among the moving vehicles, one visibly appears to be faster than the others, or, conversely, all visibly appeared to be going the same speed. Then, regardless of which vehicle the radar obtained, the fastest vehicle, or any vehicle respectively in the above scenarios, would be the one to pull over.

For example, I see three vehicles driving together and a fourth coming up from behind to catch them. I get a radar reading of 80/55. I can pull over the tailing vehicle and write him for 85 regardless of whether or not the radar actually got him, because it got one of the other three and he was catching him, I can prove that he was going at least 85. If the radar got the one catching up, then he really was going 85 and not faster which could be the case above.

If I see a group of four vehicles all together, no one is gaining ground on any of the others and no one is losing ground in the time frame for which I observe them, any of the vehicles would be suitable to pull over if I got a speed reading.

Keep in mind the original statement. Radar is not supposed to be used to determine if someone is speeding. It is supposed to be used to verify the visual observations of the officer who already believes the person to be speeding. A few years ago, I had someone on the Maximum-Suzuki site challenge my ability to estimate speed on an interstate. He came on a ride along and with over 100 vehicle's speed measured, I was never off by more than 2mph with speeds ranging from 45 to 85.

 

[wfooshee]

Doppler radar picks up the fastest moving and/or largest target.

BZZZZZZZZZ!!

Best return only. No selectivity among multiple targets whatsoever. The best echo is the reading, and that might be the bike 10 yards away, or the semi 100 yards away. If there's a semi 100 yards away, there's no way in hell a bike at any distance over 20 or 30 yards will produce a read, no matter his speed.

You can prove this if you come across one of those "Your speed is" trailers and you're in traffic. Nail it. Or brake. Just make your speed obviously different from everyone else (but don't get creamed.) It won't read you until you're nearly past.

 

[cougar8000]

Scott, can you really with out a doubt identify which one was going faster if you are going apposite direction at 55 mph and they are traveling at a minimum of 55 mph?

Another question. If you observe 2 bikes traveling in the same direction at the same speed or so, and decide to pull them over and both of them pull over. Can you and will you write both of them or just one? Can you legaly write both of them with just one read out?

 

[PDsgt]

I would comment on this but has been covered pretty well by LEO's. New York has similiar laws. Don't have to show you the Radar, in fact I would reprimand one of my subordinates if they did show it to you for already stated reasons of liability and such. Also in New York, Radar is only a confirmation of speed already estimated by the officer.

Your best bet of getting out of a ticket is to be very respectful and apologetic. Don't challenge officer authority, don't try to tell them their job, as it only makes us want to stick it in your ass harder. Just my opinion of course.

 

[cougar8000]

..don't try to tell them their job, as it only makes us want to stick it in your ass harder. Just my opinion of course.

Sometimes no matter what you do will get you a ticket. I had my first one in a 4 years earlier in IN. We were traveling ~70 on 55 two lane each direction divided highway at least 20 miles from nearest town. He was going opposite direction. Pulled us over after 2 minutes that we spotted. First thing that came out of his mouth when I started talking is I am the cop that would give his mama a ticket. I was going to ask if he was not nursed enough as a child but decided to shut my mouth and just take it like a man. he was the meanest SOB that I have ever saw, and I have huge respect for the lawman. His nastiness was totally uncalled for.

Anyway. I am going into a lala land with it. You are absolutely correct. The worst thing that anyone can try to do is to play dumb and insult the officer.

 

[Ignacio]

I'll renew my pitch to offer anybody that feels they are a Subject Matter Expert for their state to draft up an FAQ on their state specifics. To date, we've got Washington and Oregon covered (VERY well by the way....good solid overall info with detailed state specifics), but I'd rather not unveil it until we have a third state drafted up and a standard set.

I'm interested in probably either cops, lawyers, or people that have contested their own tickets and know the inside of a court room to write something up.....not just a link here and there, but detailed info. PM me if interested and I can share the standard we're trying to go for.

 

[PDsgt]

..don't try to tell them their job, as it only makes us want to stick it in your ass harder. Just my opinion of course.

Sometimes no matter what you do will get you a ticket. I had my first one in a 4 years earlier in IN. We were traveling ~70 on 55 two lane each direction divided highway at least 20 miles from nearest town. He was going opposite direction. Pulled us over after 2 minutes that we spotted. First thing that came out of his mouth when I started talking is I am the cop that would give his mama a ticket. I was going to ask if he was not nursed enough as a child but decided to shut my mouth and just take it like a man. he was the meanest SOB that I have ever saw, and I have huge respect for the lawman. His nastiness was totally uncalled for.

Anyway. I am going into a lala land with it. You are absolutely correct. The worst thing that anyone can try to do is to play dumb and insult the officer.

Yes your right. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. A ticket is coming your way. And yes, sometimes cops are assholes. I am a cop, and I know cops that are asses. Doesn't matter if you work at Walmart, the bank, or the cop shop, there are assholes in the world, and some of them are cops. That is a reality of life. Sometimes I give tickets even though I don't want to. I am occasionally reminded that issuing tickets is part of my job, and if everyone in the department has issued 20 tickets this month (1 a day) and I have issued 2 this month, there is a problem. So even though ticket writing is not my thing, I may have to give you one.

My suggestion to anyone in the receiving line for a ticket is to be polite and take it. Hopefully you only get one. I have had people be really nasty to me about it, and I strive to find some other problem with their vehicle (broken tail light, bald tire, my favorite other one is something hanging from a rear view mirror, or a sticker on the windshield or back window.) All those are ticketable offenses in New York. Sometimes I can write until my hand hurts if they are exceptionally nasty.

Didn't mean to hijack this thing, but thought I would offer an inside thought process on this one.

Ride safe and politely wave to the nice officer.

 

[ponyfool]

Scott, can you really with out a doubt identify which one was going faster if you are going apposite direction at 55 mph and they are traveling at a minimum of 55 mph?
Another question. If you observe 2 bikes traveling in the same direction at the same speed or so, and decide to pull them over and both of them pull over. Can you and will you write both of them or just one? Can you legaly write both of them with just one read out?

Moving radar is a bit different. What I was describing above was for stationary radar. I always shied away from moving radar, never really liked it.

As for your other question, if I am on an overpass observing traffic, and I can see that both are right next to each other and both are at the same speed, and I get one with laser or radar, yes, I am comfortable writing both vehicles. That's happened maybe twice in my career. But, again, remember, I have already made the determination that the vehicles are speeding, the radar/laser only confirms it.

 

[ponyfool]

wfooshee is correct in that radar picks up the largest return only. While the military may have multiple tracking radar capabilities, the radar guns I have seen and used only pick up the largest return. Want to see a cop get really pissed? Have a truck going 20 in a 35 zone and a car flying past him at 65 only to get the truck's 20!

I have, multiple times, shown violators the laser reading (primarily cuz it's cordless, and compact), but ONLY when the person honestly didn't believe he was going the speed. Never when someone demanded to see it. After the violator sees the reading, I show them how to use it and have them tag a car or two so they can see how accurate it is. At 1000' a laser's beam width is only 3'. Centered on the front bumper of a car (front plate), you are getting nothing but THAT car!

Not one of the people I showed the lidar reading to contested the ticket.

Also of note, I only write 11 over in school zones with kids present, 16 over for speed limits up to 40, and 21 over for speed limits 45 and above. So you have to be moving for me to pull you over in the first place. If I choose to write you a ticket or not is irrelevant, you still deserved it!

I haven't written many tickets since getting promoted, but I used to stop 700 to a 1000 a year as a patrol officer, writing about 1/3 of the ones I stopped. When in Traffic, it was more, but that was a short stint. Also, when working an area we had a fatal accident (two actually), using my laser and a chase car, we wrote 700 tickets in 4 months on that stretch of road. Speed limit was 35, average speed at start of enforcement 64, average speed after enforcement 39. Now, with sporadic, but heavy visibility, the location still has an average speed of only 44. I call that a success.

 

[eworth]

Nikk,

He is not required to show you, nor will that be a defense should you contest it at trial.

Mark aka Eworth

So I'm cruising into the Smokey Mountains of NC and an Officer running the opposite direction on US-74 gets a radar shot on my FJR in the left lane, next to a 4-wheeler, and an FZ1 behind me and closing.
Officer pulls me over and writes me up for 70 in a 55. :angry2:

I asked how he determined that speed and asked to see the radar results. Officer claims he didn't save the reading and couldn't show me.

Does NC law require the Officer to display this data if asked?

Also are Officers required to keep their target in sight, because all three vehicles turned the corner before he finished crossing the grass median?

Since I was making a left, I was the first vehicle the Officer caught up to. Meanwhile the FZ1 blasted down the road, followed by the 4-wheeler.

-Nikk

 

[FJR_pig]

Not getting sucked into this, not getting sucked into this, not getting sucked into this... :glare:

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

[Ride safe and politely wave to the nice officer.

:bye: