Office discusion

[cougar8000]

I know it is not going to be about bikes, but it is not about politics either, at least not country politics. I guess I am not only venting but also looking for recommendations from what seams to be a much more seasoned crowed with much more experience then me. So, here it goes...

I have started new job almost 3 month ago. I have been in the business for over 13 years, with the last 5 in the position that I was hired to do. I am IBM certified and know a thing or two how things works. I held a senior position at the company that I left where I have maintained over 30 terabytes of data spread across dozens of databases across multiple servers.

At the interview it was said that the job will be flexible i.e. can work from home sometimes and hours are flex as well. I can start early or later as long as the work gets done.

I am told on more then one occasion that I should provide a view from outside. But at the same time after I already have started my manager tells me to keep it quite during meetings and tell stuff only to him one on one. I guess so not to make others feel that they do not know ****. group consists of 8 people out of whom only 1 or 2 have formal training in database administration and the rest are more of a developers then database administrators.

We have prod databases that have never been backed up and we have file systems that are hitting 100% and no one worries.

I start work at 6:30 and leave at 3:30. I have to be home at 3:40 to meet my oldest kid, who is only 6 , from school bus. Earlier this week he tells me that I should work till 4pm just because he says so. I tell him that I can not do this. I have to explain to him that it is illegal for the kid to be by him self at that age and bus driver will not let him off the bus if I am not there. He does not want to hear it. Tell me that we will talk on Friday.

It is Friday. WE talk. I tell him that I have found a solution but it will cost me money. He does not even blink. Then he writes me up for checking on my pager during the team meeting. That unless I am a primary I should listen and not be checking my messages on the pager, that is a work pager. Are we in a high school settings, or are we a professionals?

Then he tells me that the thing about me leaving early is really because someone complained. I tell him that it is not like I am not working my hours. he tells me yeah, but you still have to stay until 4pm. then he goes to tell me that everyone watching everyone. I tell him that I am not and could care less what other people do. I have my work to be done and that is all I care about. He proceeds to tell me that if I see someone spending their time on the Yahoo that I should tell him. We are not getting paid to sit on yahoo. :blink:

I have never told on anyone and not about to start. That was my reply to him.

It does not stop there. He tells me that my bonus and salary depends on my contribution to the company. It proceeds by him telling me to shut up and listen during the team meetings or other wise. That I should not voice my opinion to a group at all. I tell him that he is putting me in the corner and he just stares at me.

Do I have to treat it as a sign that I am no longer welcome there, or it is his way to control me? How is it going to look for a potential new employer that I have only been here only a few month. Keep in mind that I worked for almost 10 years at the prior place?

Please tell me that not all places are like that.

Thanks for listening and welcome your recommendations.

 

[GunMD]

I know that there are always two sides to every story, but I'll assume that you're telling it as accurately as you can. With that assumption in mind, there are a couple of things to consider.

Did this treatment / tension just start suddenly or did it build up over your entire period of employment? Were there any recent personnel changes (additions or deletions) that may have a widespread impact on how the boss deals with all other employees? You know, if someone just quit and left a void then the boss might be feeling the pressure to make up for that loss. Conversely, if someone new just came aboard he might be trying to make an impression. Then again, maybe you're the FNG and he's trying to exert his authority over you. The statements you made about him trying to keep you quiet in meetings would lead me to believe that he's either a control freak / power hungry leader, or he's intimidated by your knowledge and experience.

If things are as "impossible" (my word, not yours) as you've made them out to be here I can't help but think you're in for a long miserable ride unless you take some kind of action. Based on your post it doesn't seem like the boss is the type to have a bi-directional conversation in order to resolve things.

It may be time to put some feelers out while, at the same time, making every effort to be of value to your current company. Perhaps one or more members of the staff or management are just feeling you out and things will improve. Possible?

My .02

 

[cougar8000]

You are correct, there are always two sides. But I haven't been there long enough to cause any trouble. I am not the most politically correct person, but I have kept myself in check since I joined this new company.

What changed?! A week ago we had a one on one and everything was great. Everyone was happy. What changed is one guy, who he,boss, thinks is the most experienced guy, changed his hours of operation to almost like mine. He come in 15 minuted after I get in and leaves 15 minutes before I leave. Nothing else has changed as far as I can tell.

For almost 3 month it was fine, with the exception of him telling me to tell it to things to him only one on one.

I am an FNG, but I am treading lightly. He has no knowledge in database administration and totally forward with it. Is he a control freak? I think so. Is he intimidated by me? I do know more then most people on the team, but I hope that it is not correct. I have been clear from the beginning that I am not here to take someone job. They had a need for another person because one left, not a replacement for someone there now.

How is it going to look to that I am only there for a few month?

 

[GunMD]

How is it going to look to that I am only there for a few month?

I don't know the answer to that...I guess it depends on a few variables.

If the next job you seek is an improvement (logically progressing in an upward direction) then it would seem to me that (depending on the company/person hiring you) it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Then again, I've been in the same organization for almost 12 years, so what do I know?

 

[uctofeej]

Just my .02 on the length of time... If this 3 mos. old job is the only short one on your resume, it shouldn't be a big deal.

The trick will be for you to "spin" it in a positive light. When the next place asks why you're leaving so soon, you've got to say something better than "my boss is an idiot" or "the culture there is Stalinistic." You might say something more along the lines of "they aren't really able to use my talents and experience as much as I had hoped, so I'm looking for an opportunity to use my skills more fully."

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Alex-

If the schedule you were hired to work... 7:30-3:30.... has now changed and is creating a conflict with your ability to be home when your son gets home from school, most (not all) new employers will understand the three month stint, especially given your tenure with your previous employer.

It really sounds like your in for a long miserable time with this employer.

Are you going to be out tomorrow morning? Perhaps we can talk then.

 

[fjrob1300]

I've always said that I'm not against authority but, STUPID authority really, really burns my ass. If it were me I'd start speaking up at meetings and pointing out to someone higher up your fears about no back-ups and the like. The guy is a control freak. Phuck him and his kind! If you can out talk the guy about data systems and such .... bury him.

my 2bytes

 

[Randy]

This is BS, Alex. Don't put up with it. There are many jobs out there in DB2 and Oracle database administration.

Re: the short stint, well, I don't think it will be a big deal. In fact, it could work to your favor in the next position. If you're as marketable and knowledgeable as you say you are, companies need you - you don't need them. Tell them that they misrepresented the position and the hours. Tell them your job history shows that you aren't a job hopper. The new employer will know that you have priorities/commitments that aren't negotiable.

 

[cougar8000]

Thanks guys for all your reply. Larry, I am actually there at 6:30 not 7:30 I get up at a crack of down to be able to make it home every day in time to meet my kid. I had argued with him that if there is a crisis I will work as much as needed but not on a regular basis.

Looks like you are reconfirming that I need to start looking again. I do not enjoy politics and very lousy player at it. I also do not enjoy burning people, so, I am not going to be playing that game with him. It will get back to him sooner then later anyway.

Larry, I will see you tomorrow and we can chat more.

Thanks guys.

 

[S76]

It's time to go.

I had that exact situation, and it lasted for 12 years. The most miserable 12 years of my life. The only reason I stuck it out is the jerk kept saying he was retiring the next year. This is the type of person that is basically insecure at not knowing the business and compensates by being a control freak to protect his butt. My boss was a data freak. Always needed more information from you about everything? Constantly demorilizing and controlling all the people around him. He wants you to bring everything to him so he can control the information flow and keep himself on top.

My problem was compounded because I just couldn't put up with it and felt an uncontrolable urge to kick the beast. And round and round we went. This guy stole thousands of dollars from the company, pulled all kinds of unethical dealings and when I reported it, it all got swept under the carpet and I was the bad guy. Sleepless nights were the norm in an already stressfull job, just by it's nature.

He finally did leave a year ago and a normal person took his place. I now am having fun at my job and look forward to the challenges. Don't live your life in that kind of hell. If it's not that bad now, I think it has the potential to go there.

It's time to go.

Just my $.02

 

[Caba]

Cougar,

FWIW I'll throw in my .02.

No comment either way on the specifics of the situation you're in or the details.

I've had the luck to work in many different companies and for many different managers in 5 different states, 6 different countries and 3 different continents. IMHO, the one thing I have found is that the relationship that you have with the person you work for makes the largest difference in how much you enjoy your work. The tasks can be exactly the same, but if you don't feel respected, valued, or listened to, it's hell to go to work every day.

To answer your question on how it will look for a short time in the position: As I have over time hired several hundred technical people and literally interviewed close to a thousand people, the short time in the job won't be an issue. If you talk directly and clearly to why you left, the new employer will either value you more (because that's the type of person he is looking for) or you don't want to work there anyway. You have the history of long employment at your previous job, it's better to allow both you and the company to find the right fit before either of you invest too much in the position.

Your description of your boss makes him sound insecure to me. If someone is whining about things that are "unfair" and he doesn't have the fortitude to separate legitimate issues from fluff and be direct with people, this will continue to happen over and over.

I am not suggesting that you leave where you are at, nor do I recommend making any decision on a short, emotional basis. I am saying that again IMHO, a job is not worth it if you hate it every day.

Ok....maybe I gave .03

 

[Ramblin Man]

Dude, you're a DBA. Thats like being a doctor with the cure to AIDS, Diabetes and herpese.

Tell the guy to kiss your ass and that you will voice your opinion when you feel it's in the companies best interest to do so. If he doesn't like it you'll be happy to consider whatever lucrative seperation package he has to offer you.

That one on one **** has got to stop. He's using your expertise for his own personal gains there.

And you may want to suggest some enterprise monitoring tools to watch the databases and file systems. Nothing like a buch of lost data because a table couldn't expand because the file system it was mounted on was already full.

 

[cougar8000]

Dude, you're a DBA. Thats like being a doctor with the cure to AIDS, Diabetes and herpese.

hehe, yeah, but that only works if the patient is willing to listen. Like when I offered to work a weekend to get work done, but was told by the manager of the application team that he does not want my help and instead will have 3 people from his team work for the next two weeks full time to do what I can do in a one weekend. :dribble:

And I really do not care if my idea is passed by someone else, as long as my bonus and check keeps growing accordingly.

Monster shows few interesting positions. time to update my resume again.

Thank you.

 

[Ari Rankum]

I quit a very large organization after 22.5 years last Spring. I got to the point in my technical career where I was asked to do interviews of high-end folks for employment as part of my "other duties as assigned". I now work for a very small engineering boutique. We're so small that I have similar "other duties as assigned". So I read a lot of resumes and see many, many career histories.

Any stint less than a year will always generate a question or two from me. As others have said, you'd prefer to have none of those on your resume. In this situation, though, I'd prolly take the hit and pull up stakes. Keep your job long enough to land another one. The suggestion that someone else made, where you explain that the opportunities for technical growth that were described during the recruitment process did not match reality is what I'd go with.

If I had to guess, I'd say your boss doesn't want you to describe all the ways the **** may hit the fan with the lack of backups and full file systems in meetings because then it's on the record that he knew about the problem before the disaster, if any.

It's somewhat an aside, but I've got some advice. If you do take on the role of creating the backups before you pull your ripcord and get out of there, please, please, please test the backups. I've heard so many horror stories of sys admins diligently creating daily backups for years that were completely empty. Not until the inevitable disk failure did they ever attempt to restore from one. I can't imagine what your stomach feels like when you realize that, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to run the experiment in my own body.

Regards and good luck.

PS - your boss is an *******.

 

[Joevelocity]

I'll offer an viewpoint that you can take for what it is worth. I run a network technology company, we only employ 14 people, but as an employer you have to be flexible with schedules. Good technical people are hard to find and keep. You sound like when you wrote this post that you were struggling with which way to go...confront and stay or confront and leave. You may have already decided to look for a job elsewhere, but you seem to me like a guy that wants to be loyal but your boss wants to be a control freak but doesn't have the balls to tell other subordinates the reason why you are leaving early. "He comes in at 6:30am, he has to get his kid off the bus at 3:40pm". That should be the end of it. I would ask why wants to change your behavior rather than addressing the fact that someone has a problem with you leaving early. How about "I told him it was ok"

Sounds like HE needs a little coaching, not you.

If you like the company, ask the boss what he would like you to accomplish in the 30 extra minutes of staying until 4pm. If it is task related and you get those tasks done, it is really hard for him to have an argument.

Your boss needs to be a manager and I would recommend checking the handbook to see if there are time of day restrictions on when you are expected to be at work. (I doubt there are).

If he can't give you reasons or talk to you in a straight forward way, take the advice of your forum pals and see employment elsewhere.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[YooperDick]

From everything you said, you are working for an insecure and incompetent manager. As a retired exec, I've seen many of them and they all exhibited the same classical attributes you described.

A good manager will tell you what he wants from you and when he needs it done. How you complete the assignment is your business. The manager or supervisor is there for only one reason, to ensure the assets entrusted to them are safe and productive. Any manager that ******* or obfuscates the efforts of their subordinates is a bad manager in the most basic of definitions.

Ask yourself one question; What is the probability of me improving my relationship with, or, modifying the behavior of, this manager?

The answer will determine your action.

Remember, things are the way they are for one reason, management wants it that way. If they didn't, they would have changed it.

Good luck.

 

[cougar8000]

The only thing that I like in this company is it is a mile from my house and it paid what I asked. They did promised me a golden opportunity and ability to do what I did not have a chance to do it before. My prior employer is on the mids of a third buy out. It was hard to get any money out of them. Maybe I should have stayed on the market a bit longer before taking this job.

I am not going to be creating anything behind any bodies back. Not my style. They do not want a back up so be it. I do not like confrontations. I will just do what many of you are suggesting and it sounds like the only viable option at the moment.

Thank you.

 

[Tenchi]

Sounds to me like you have three things that you want: 1) to do your job unimpeded by others, 2) to do so with adequate compensation and 3) to look after your family. I think those three things are pretty reasonable. Is this guy really as high as you can go? Isn't there anyone else you can voice your concerns to professionally? I don't like doing things behind people's backs but it's not behind his back if you say that you're not happy with how sh*t is going down, and you're escalating what might be very important issues.

I would document anything and everything that happens by the way; at worst you will have spent some time documenting things that will never need to be referenced. At best you will have a log of events and information related to those events should you need to back up your statements with actual events, dates, etc. It's time consuming, but if you ever get to the situation where you need to use this information, the time spent will be truly worth it.

"I tell him that I am not and could care less what other people do. I have my work to be done and that is all I care about. He proceeds to tell me that if I see someone spending their time on the Yahoo that I should tell him. We are not getting paid to sit on yahoo."

If it's not in your job contract, description and/or requirements you are under no obligation to do rat on someone. It also has to be within company guidelines, which should be physically stated somewhere for legal reasons (and can you imagine how bad it will look if one of the company guidelines is to rat out on your collegues?).

My soon to be ex employer never had a contract and it's put me in a legal and financial bind because of it - my previous employer did and I used it several times to get what I was entitled to. If your employer REALLY wanted to crack down on people sitting on yahoo, they'd be packet sniffing and logging/controlling people's surfing through a proxy/firewall server, and/or hire efficiency experts and install remote access programs.

"Do I have to treat it as a sign that I am no longer welcome there, or it is his way to control me?"

Sounds like a mind game in controlling you. His reactions also indicate he has no qualms with losing you as an employee.

"How is it going to look for a potential new employer that I have only been here only a few month. Keep in mind that I worked for almost 10 years at the prior place?"

Depends on the employer. It might sound like you're resistant to change or unable to cope, etc. I'd be making it very clear as to why you left after a few months. A short stint may actually be beneficial to you, depending on the way you spin it - as Randy said, misrepresentation of the job is just one possibility.

I think of it more as, "if everything goes wrong and you were unable to do your job to the best of your abilities because your boss stopped it from being possible, massive losses occur and it affects you for this and any future job that you may undertake, is it worth it?" To me, that is completely unacceptable.

"Please tell me that not all places are like that."

My last job and my current job are not like that. I hope my next job will not be like that because I simply will not put up with that BS.

To put a more real situation on this, I am currently working for a small company where everyone working there is a jack-of-all-trades. We recently had the main HDD on our main server die, and someone had removed the RAID backup on our main server because the boss wanted to save $150 on a new HDD 3 years prior ("Why have 2 HDD's do the job when just 1 will do? That doesn't make sense..."). It cost the company $17k per day until the problem was fixed and countless money in lost productivity, service to clients and sales. Do you really want to be responsible for that? I don't know you well enough to say for sure, but it sounds to me like you're the kind of guy that would bend over backwards to make sure that did NOT happen.

I'm a FNG, young (Gen Y), no dependents nor am I experienced, so take everything I say with a grain of salt; I think you should never have to endanger your personal nor your professional life because someone higher up is being an arse though.

 

[YooperDick]

The only thing that I like in this company is it is a mile from my house and it paid what I asked.

These are probably some of the least significant matters when considering your career development and job satisfaction.