OH YOU PEOPLE!!!

[Jetmaker737]

Wow, what a thread. :blink:

It's a good reminder to keep your head on a swivel and treat every cage as if they have the intention of killing you.

That's been my motto for 20 years. My only get off in that time was definitely my fault.

I agree though that you can't control everything.

 

[Toecutter]

In any case it's good to see that Toe still cares about us.

Yeah, he does. Too much, some have said. Delusional has been tossed my way before as well, by some supposedly qualified to make that diag.., er, accusation.

I apologize to those who may have been rubbed the wrong way by the dramatic rant. That said, I'm not going to defend my points against every differing point of view. It takes too long, especially for someone who hasn't learned to type yet.

One thing's for sure- None of you were the ones I was concerned with when I jumped up on my soapbox and sounded like I was thumbing my nose at the universe. My higher power will definitely be doing the slapping if I need to be slapped off my horse as a result of tempting fate. I didn't do it without knowing the risk, but if one person avoids plugging their bike into the side of a car as a result, the reward overrides the risk. I'm fairly sure that many have gotten some positive mental input, and many have contributed some very good discussion.

There's at least one exception to every rule. Mid-turn bats? Lightning strikes? Yeah, no argument from me about when your number comes up.

Now go out there and be an Ace. Aces come home.

 

[FJR Steve]

FWIW...

2 Constabulary (as in Highway Patrol) Motorcycle Riders were knocked off their bikes (at opposite ends of the city (viz..80kms apart) in two separate incidents yesterday in Perth, Western Australia.

Surely front number plates would have saved these guys...oh wait, they do have rego ID's on their screens. Well, they must have been hoons then (the latest anti motorcycle social passion here at the moment).

Will keep you all updated as to which way the politcial pendulum will swing on this one.

 

[drew231506]

Aces come home? The ones that dont? I really hope I'm not killed on this thing and then everyone shrug their shoulders and say he should have been an ace.

I suppose you can TRY to think of all of the "What ifs" while you ride...but its just not possible. I ride prepared for something I'm not going to be prepared for, its then I hope I make the correct split second decision. How can you even go for a ride so scared to death? What's the point?

Was that a pebble in the road? Is my front tire wobbling, what if it falls off? Did i see a deer while looking at the pebble? What if the wobbling tire noise scared the deer, which scared the bird out of the bushes, which flew out towards me but I wasnt looking because I was looking at the pebble in my path and it decapitated me!? Damn.

Human beings make mistakes...theyre always preventable in retrospect...but not in realtime...we cant see the future...sometimes we wont know which was the correct decision. Preventables? If only we were so perfect...

 

[wpbfjr]

butt, the fact is some error or omission happened that led to the tragic event....

That error or omission is only recognizable in hindsight. It anyone had recognized it at the time, there wouldn't have been an event would there?

There is no rule of motorcycle riding that I will not follow, or break, to save my skin....

personally, i've heard and ignored the little voice in "foresight" that tells me something is remiss... ask charliehoss when you see him at wfo how stupid i looked with a totaled fjr and my life miraculously still mine at eom '05... i lost it by ignoring the inner voice, and trying to keep up with him and ride his ride, and not ride my own ride...

and, again to me only, Scythian's arguments seem as those a great atty would make to reduce or eliminate their otherwise guilty clients punishment...

'tho, to me, the beauty of a gentelmen's debate is to see the others views... and i do...

having to win the debate just makes you another ****** on the internet...

dana

 

[Windjammer]

Human beings make mistakes...theyre always preventable in retrospect...but not in realtime...we cant see the future...

That's not what it's about, but you're close....

personally, i've heard and ignored the little voice in "foresight" that tells me something is remiss...

This is EXACTLY what it's about. Every experience you have on a bike forms an impression on you. Ever been rounding a blind curve on a cool fall morning, and suddenly, without even thinking about it, you rolled off the throttle, only to find that wet leaves were at the exit of the curve? Call it foresight, or "listening to your inner biker" or whatever you want. But I've found that being in good tune with that inner voice keeps me LOTS safer out there. To me, THIS is what keeps aces coming home.

Having said that, I also agree that there are those times when your number just comes up. Nothing in this world is perfect. But you can't let that prevent you from trying to be an ace, from listening to that little voice inside that says "not now with the big fistful of throttle there dude, maybe later".

Wishing you all an accident free summer!!

WJ

 

[Scythian]

This is EXACTLY what it's about. Every experience you have on a bike forms an impression on you. Ever been rounding a blind curve on a cool fall morning, and suddenly, without even thinking about it, you rolled off the throttle, only to find that wet leaves were at the exit of the curve? Call it foresight, or "listening to your inner biker" or whatever you want. But I've found that being in good tune with that inner voice keeps me LOTS safer out there. To me, THIS is what keeps aces coming home.

Man that's good. There it is....

That's what I think about when people say "ride your own ride".

You put it well: that's what I meant by 'you gotta be cagey'.

You've gotta be like an animal that can sense something wrong and act before the threat is fully revealed. Animals have an advantage in that they don't have reason to talk themselves out of acting on an undefined feeling of threat. You gotta be cagey....

 

[BugR]

Toe, if you think you are always in full control you need to meet some of the wildlife we have up here, your not even safe in your truck.

Chris

 

[RatoneMuerto]

Well golly TC I think you got a burr going somewhere here.I agree too!.Three weeks ago I augered my treasured vintage Suzy into an old lady that didnt look for me.Another trip to ER for an MRI showing more damage to my spine and one dead treasured two stroke.Probably wont be long now before my beloved choice of transportation will cease to be a reality.One motor officer here in Plano Texas was killed last week by a cager running a light while he was in pursuit on code.Beginning to wish I would be more like a sick demented friend the always has a can of mace handy to ward of tailgaters

 

[keithaba]

My final comment (like anyone cares...)

I don't think Toe had any intention of sounding like he was saddled up!

The intention was to get people to look out for cars and to always assume that the ******* in front of you will pull out, or run the stop sign.

Doing so has prevented me from winding up in some ****** situations.

Now if I can just focus when no one else is around....

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

I live by three rules in life.

3. If you want it done right , do it yourself.

2. Trust no one.

1. What can will go wrong, and Murphy was an optimist.

This one is what keeps me alive imho. I look for every possible and perceivable mishap when doing just about anything, from climbing ladders at work to riding. Will it prevent them from happening? Probably not but gives me one up on whats going on around me.

There is probably none of us out there riding who hasn't had a little "luck". That moment when we flash back and wonder how we lived through a crash, cage or bike, or a near miss.

I also believe that when your numbers up it could be anywhere, anytime any reason. Just look around the world the people that die who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Terrorist, the wrath of mother nature etc., etc., etc.

And I guess I am just lucky or paranoid. I have only been down once and that was with my Goldwing in the early 80's coming to a stop at a light in a light rain. Put my foot down and the bike just went down at probably less than 5 mph. Picked it up and went on. But there have been plenty of times where I considered myself "lucky" in a near missed and look back in wonderment of how I didn't crash and burn.

Just some observations from my life which all of us have. I am just thankful that when I get home after every ride and feel the pain of those who don't.

 

[rhody]

Human beings make mistakes...theyre always preventable in retrospect...but not in realtime...we cant see the future...

That's not what it's about, but you're close....

personally, i've heard and ignored the little voice in "foresight" that tells me something is remiss...

This is EXACTLY what it's about. Every experience you have on a bike forms an impression on you. Ever been rounding a blind curve on a cool fall morning, and suddenly, without even thinking about it, you rolled off the throttle, only to find that wet leaves were at the exit of the curve? Call it foresight, or "listening to your inner biker" or whatever you want. But I've found that being in good tune with that inner voice keeps me LOTS safer out there. To me, THIS is what keeps aces coming home.

Having said that, I also agree that there are those times when your number just comes up. Nothing in this world is perfect. But you can't let that prevent you from trying to be an ace, from listening to that little voice inside that says "not now with the big fistful of throttle there dude, maybe later".

Wishing you all an accident free summer!!

WJ

I agree to a large degree with what Windjammer said. I have made it a point to 'listen to that inner voice", and on more than one occassion in the past year, have either curtailed riding a planned route because there were too many coincidences or close calls all happening at the precise place and moment I choose to ride. I also have cut may pace from say 70% to 40% because of close calls. In any event, as many have said in this thread, sometimes it is not your fault, wrong place, wrong time, sometimes it is 100% your fault, with the remainder being somewhere in between. I try to pay close attention to what is going on when I ride, and the bottom line is, if I feel threatened in any way, take action to change the pace, and sometimes destination of my rides. On the flip side, I have had rides where the cosmos aligns and have felt comfortable pushing it a bit and getting away with it. That may one day prove to be a big mistake, but for now, I will take those special days of riding and cherish them.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Another person in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sat Jul 14, 9:42 PM

OSHKOSH, Wis. - A woman attending a Christian festival died Saturday after plunging about 45 feet from a bungee-like amusement ride.

Workers at the Lifest 2007 event shut down the Air Glory ride after the accident, which occurred about 4:45 p.m. A prayer service was held at 7 p.m. and the music festival resumed about 7:30 p.m.

The woman, whose name and age was not released by Oshkosh police, was pronounced dead at a local hospital several hours after the accident.

Lifest is an annual Christian music festival that also features rides and sports.

An announcement about the death was made from a stage just after 9:30 p.m. The music continued but with more mellow worship songs.

Oshkosh Police Sgt. Todd Wrage said few details were available Saturday night.

"What we do know, from the reports we've gotten, is that she apparently fell 40 to 50 feet," Wrage said.

The Air Glory ride is described as a ride whose mechanism is similar to bungee-jumping.

Brian Childers of Kenosha was in line for the ride and witnessed the fall.

Two people went up in the ride, and when they pulled the release Childers said he heard a snapping sound. One person fell and the other remained swinging in the ride, he said.

 

[madmike2]

We don't like to admit it, and it is hard to face, but:
1) Sometimes you can do everything right and still get killed....

2) There are more ways of getting killed on a bike than you can even think of....

Whenever there is an accident reported here, and God Bless the guys who report them, we like to ask why it happened and then war-game it to convince ourselves that 'it wouldn't happen to us'!

Sometimes it's the only way we can keep riding....

I'm better/smarter/faster/more trained than that guy:

Now, there's a BIG dose of truth. Maybe a bigger dose than some will want to swallow. But IMO, the truth nonetheless. I've been on both sides of that equation.

You know, I always think about this stuff before I ride. It's just that sometimes I lie to myself. Sometimes, I look the consequences straight in the eye and chose to roll the dice anyway. Sometimes, I don't want to hear that so I tell myself that it won't be me; can't happen to me; I'll be prepared for that...

THAT, Mr. Scab, is an excellent addition to what I believe Toecutter was trying to bring to the table here. I have behaved stupidly in the past and been very lucky. I've also had incidents (as opposed to accidents that were completely out of my control.

Scythian offered this:

That error or omission is only recognizable in hindsight. It anyone had recognized it at the time, there wouldn't have been an event would there?

Part of the result of hindsight should be the application of the lesson to our current mindset and lore of motorcycle strategies. Isn't that what David Hough ("Proficient Motorcycling" & "More Proficient Motorcycling"), Lee Parks ("Total Control"), Streetmasters and other motorcycle clinics and schools, and the MSF are trying to infuse into the motorcycling community?

I think, putting these thoughts together, the art of enjoying our passion and freedom (being a motorcyclist) involves thinking, mental preparation & attitude, self-awareness and skills/training (as Radman pointed out).

Thanks for caring, Bob, and your willingness to broach an uncomfortable area and cause thought provoking study is applauded from this quarter. I am working at applying some of these points to my own riding habits (even we, uhm, elder persons can retrain our pre-ride and mid-ride processes). While I may never be an "Ace", I still want to come home safely and ride again tomorrow. AND, I have a lot to learn, so you guys keep teaching me. I don't want to trust everything to "blind luck" or "fate", because I think fate is a cruel taskmaster.

 

[black mamba]

I've read the many postings about this thread and I can see many ligitimate points, and counter-points, relative to the issue. When the final analysis comes, a clear summation results: our sport of cycling is inherently dangerous. How each of us deals with that truth can, very much, determine how we will successfully avoid the many hazards that exist.....or how we can survive if we can't avoid them.

I take great care to control those elements that I can control:

1. I keep the bike in tip-top mecahnical shape

2. I NEVER get on the bike without every piece of protective gear I can possibly muster.

3. I prepare myself mentally, as best I can, for the prospect of riding, each and every time I get on the bike. I try and keep good concentration about all that is going on around me. I try and keep escape routes and alternative plans fresh in my mind. I try my best to be prepared for the ***** that does the most unexpected things.

In spite of my best laid preparations, there exists the possibility that an untoward event will take me out. I've adopted a fatalistic philosophy regarding that possibility. I believe that if your number is up, it is up. I can't come up with any other philosophy, or life belief, that lets me account for, and accept, the fact that things happen and people die in a seemingly random fashion through no fault of their own.....whatever the cause.

I'll continue to ride and take all the precautions I can ....... and hope for the best.

 

[FJR Steve]

FWIW...2 Constabulary (as in Highway Patrol) Motorcycle Riders were knocked off their bikes (at opposite ends of the city (viz..80kms apart) in two separate incidents yesterday in Perth, Western Australia.

Surely front number plates would have saved these guys...oh wait, they do have rego ID's on their screens. Well, they must have been hoons then (the latest anti motorcycle social passion here at the moment).

Will keep you all updated as to which way the politcial pendulum will swing on this one.

Well,

Eyewitness statements now reveal that one of these incidents resulted from the action of the motorcycle rider, conducting a "U" turn in traffic, without performing a head check for traffic in either direction. Seems he was collected before he made good the 180 degree manoeuvre.

And here I was, being led to believe that wearing a fluoro vest over the top of his jacket, made him invincible. Well, that's the way some of these guys behave.

Anyway, proof is there, even the best manage to stuff it up. ***cue video footage of Rossi undertaking the Kwaka at Sachenring***