OK, ES riders, tell me your thoughts..

[user 8909]

2016 is here and it looks like all my excuses for not buying a new bike have run out.

The ES models have been out long enough so how do you feel about it now and should I spring for the ES model and would you again?

Personally I think I would set it up and leave it, maybe swap between sport and tour and that may be reason enough to spring for it but Yamaha claims that riders will have some 84 different suspension variations.......really?

So, current ES riders, is this option all you expected it to be and would never think of going back?

Or, it's nice but in the long run I'd rather pay Traxxion or another aftermarket supplier to upgrade my suspenders?

Also, what's your plans in 40-50K when the stock parts are wearing out, what are your plans then?

 

[El Toro]

Also, what's your plans in 40-50K when the stock parts are wearing out, what are your plans then?

That's easy.

Trade the bike at 30,000 when everyone is saying that it isn't even broken in yet.

 

[user 8909]

Also, what's your plans in 40-50K when the stock parts are wearing out, what are your plans then?

That's easy.

Trade the bike at 30,000 when everyone is saying that it isn't even broken in yet.

Not an option and don't tell me the factory E-suspension is not going to wear out.

 

[Allen_C]

I would NOT go back to a non-ES model. However, you have to decide if having the ability to switch preload and rebound is important to you. If you ride a mixture of 1-up and 2-up then it may be. If you ride a mixture of slab, city, and curvy roads then it may be. I am not sure I have heard of anyone who bought an ES say they wish they hadn't. As for the suspension components, anyone know if YES will cover them? I will have 50k miles after only 3 1/2 years so if it does, I can have the components replaced!

 

[NormKern]

I would NOT go back to a non-ES model. However, you have to decide if having the ability to switch preload and rebound is important to you. If you ride a mixture of 1-up and 2-up then it may be. If you ride a mixture of slab, city, and curvy roads then it may be. I am not sure I have heard of anyone who bought an ES say they wish they hadn't. As for the suspension components, anyone know if YES will cover them? I will have 50k miles after only 3 1/2 years so if it does, I can have the components replaced!

Agree with Allen. I almost always ride solo, sometines with luggage, sometimes not. The value of the ES suspension for me is the on-the-fly adjustment of damping- run it super SOFT on the straight slab and smooth out the expansion joints. Get off at an exit, go to STD for a good balance of comfort & control on ordinary roads. When the twisties hit, go to HARD and enjoy agressive riding.

Wear issue. I've got 41k on my ES, and the suspension still works great. I have the subsettings as follows. Soft = -3 (essentially no damping for softest freeway ride) STD =0 and HARD =0 These work fine for now. As the suspension wears, I can go to +1, +2 or +3 as needed to compensate. Don't think YES will cover wear, but failure of the control system and the like are covered under materials & workmanship. I expect the ES will last 100k+ mi for me. Then I'll trade the bike or replace/rebuild components.

What about Traxxion Dynamics etc instead of ES? I would be the first to say the ES suspension is not a "track days" suspension like Ohlins, Traxxion Dynamics etc. If you're doing track days or only riding on one kind of surface (bumpy or smooth, twisty or not) then you can dial in those units and enjoy yourself.

OTOH, if you ride all kinds of roads, sometimes fast sometimes not, slab for long distances, often all on the same day, the instant adjustability of the ES will put you closer to the ideal more of the time. That's the bottom line for me.

Norm Kern

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I think if you scroll forward one page in this forum you will find this exact same topic discussed fully. Might help you a bit.

 

[Burnspot]

You know, I'm not a suspension guru and figured the same as you...I'll probably set it and forget it. That's exactly what I had done on my Traxxion-equipped '07 (AK20 forks, Penske rear) and it was fine...the bike was on rails in the mountains, but a bit rough on the slab. That attitude started changing when I got my hands on a '15ES and realized the potential. In the mountains, I can set it to HARD and it acts like its on rails in the twisties, just like my '07, perhaps even a bit better (the smoother throttle helps tremendously). On the street, I run it on some variation of STD. Over the Thanksgiving weekend, I ran 1400 miles of slab and dialed it back to SOFT...the bike transformed into a Barcalounger, soaking up all of the bad pavement I95 through SC can dish out. With the tools easily at hand, you start to experiment and take advantage of what the bike is offering...that's the true value of the ES.

As for the ES components wearing out? I know they will at some point and I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, but so far, it looks like folks are doing quite well at higher mileages. I figure as things wear, I'll just go deeper into the available adjustment ranges. I've only just crested 6500 miles with mine since getting it late July. The main point is that I will likely never want to go back to a standard suspension after having experienced the ES.

If you do one type of riding, an ES may not be worth it, but if you do a wide range of riding, the ES is probably going to be the best option IMHO.

 

[user 8909]

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/165601-is-the-es-suspension-upgrade-worth-going-from-a-2013-to-a-2015/

As usual, if I just do a bit of searching the answer is here somewhere.

Since I haven't bought a new bike or vehicle in I don't remember when, my 05 was used w/13K, my truck is a 97 hand-me-down, I suppose I might as well get a fully optioned FJR.

Most likely will be my last bike anyway.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I just had a conversation with Pop about that very subject. He said he does not think his riding career will outlast his '07. But he is tempted.

 

[RaYzerman19]

OK folks it's time for you to ask your Yammy service guy if they can rebuild the ES rear shock, and by that I mean re and re the seals, oil, nitrogen (not the electronics). I was given a line by my local Yammy dealer trying to sell me a '15 and he gave me a list of options ('14 & '15 A's and ES's). I had said I wanted a '14A, not ES.... so he tells me the ES has a rebuildable shock, and I questioned that, saying a number of us were quite conversant with the FJR and had not yet heard it was rebuildable. I dug deeper, said there are no service parts listed, etc..... to which he told me essentially that 'qualified' dealers had access to the secret parts list...... they rebuild Yammy dirt bike shocks, etc., etc.

Anyway, I didn't quite buy it, so if you could ask your local guy it would be interesting what response you get.

However, I'd be somewhat confident that rebuilders of shocks, such as Cogent Dynamics and others, will be able to rebuild the hydraulics, maybe even revalve it one day. I do have a guy about 50 miles from me who rebuilds BMW shocks, 'cuz nobody can afford a new one......... and you can't afford a new ES rear shock either.... Y.E.S.

 

[El Toro]

I had ES on several BMWS, and I always liked it.

I realize that life expectancy is important for many buyers ... but surely they've got it sort to the point that it will last 50,000 miles.

If it does, the cost per mile to do the R&R would seem reasonable, at nearly any level.

I am no expert on this suspension stuff, other than to say that I know what I like, but it seems to me that the life of a shock ought to be pretty closely tied to the surface finishes and materials of the sliding/sealing parts, and how well the design loads actual match the real loads in service. If the sliding parts are protected so that dirt/bugs/etc. can't get to them, and if the materials and working fluid have been chosen wisely, then it would seem like your biggest probability screw up components would be in the electronics.

 

[900gc]

It will be interesting to see what the cost will be to "re-fresh" an ES suspension. Assuming it's only normal wear and not failed system components, ie. controllers, etc., it should not be too bad. I was talking to a Ducati Multistrada owner a couple years ago who told me his Skyhook ES went kaplooy, over $3k to fix but was still under warranty thankfully. I believe the Skyhook ES is more complex than the Yamaha though.

 

[RaYzerman19]

The most likely thing to wear out is the seals with resulting loss of oil and loss of damping. Oversimplified, a rebuild will involve new seals, perhaps new nitrogen bladder, perhaps add a recharge valve, refill with oil, recharge nitrogen.....

 

[Allen_C]

I talked to my local dealer service dept and he said they do not have any listing of a rebuild kit but he expects one to be available. He agreed seals and recharge would be the most likely.

I also asked if Y.E.S. would cover these and he believed it would. The dealer has to make the claim to mama Yama.

 

[REB]

I agree with you guys that love the ES. I use it on every ride. I ride two-up with my wife most of the time but also ride alone. The convenience of being able to switch the preload for one, one plus gear, two, two plus gear means that I actually do it. I rarely took the time to properly adjust preload before each ride before ES. On my 500 EXC I have set the sag and settings to my liking but when my wife jumps on the back (yes she will do 80 miles of tough off road on the back of the 500 - good woman!) I never readjust everything. Like others have said, switching the damping on the fly between comfort, standard, and stiff plus individual adjustments for each setting is also great. Comfort on long flats, standard for most roads, and sport when you quicken the pace. It works well and the changes are obvious. I have the YES and am not concerned at this point with what I will do when it's time for suspension work. Probably will have a new bike before then anyway. Now I also have a 2015 KTM 1190 and it has a very similar ES setup. I want ES on all my road bikes now.

 

[Fred W]

As others have said, the ES is great for those of us who ride solo and 2-up mixed. The ability to vary the rear preload with the press of a few buttons is great. But... I have been wondering, what is the practical load limit of that ES rear shock?

The stock spring and 4 preload settings (one-up, one-up plus bags, 2-up, and 2-up plus bags) seems to work pretty well for my own situation. Although I am a "full sized American" guy (6'2" and 230 lbs) I am blessed to have a diminutive wife at 4'12" and just over 100lbs. So, our two up load is only 330lbs plus riding gear and luggage. The load capacity spec for the 2014ES is 467lbs total passengers and cargo, so we are well within that.

What happens to that rear shock's performance and longevity when you put two full sized Americans on it and their weights add up to 450 lbs plus gear and cargo? I suspect that may be important to some folks' decisions of whether to go with the ES or buy the A and an aftermarket shock and spring.

 

[El Toro Joe]

Y.E.S. did cover the replacement of my leaking rear shock on my 06. So I don't see any reason that it wouldn't cover the ES.

 

[Intech]

I concur with the other ES owner replies. I have the GP upgrade on my '07 forks with a Penske rear. They are set very firm for 2-up, so 1-up is really firm. I like it that way, but the ability to soften it from a menu is awesome.

I know GP was looking for a guinea pig for an ES rebuild. I wish I was closer. I would volunteer.

 

[MCRIDER007]

As others have said, the ES is great for those of us who ride solo and 2-up mixed. The ability to vary the rear preload with the press of a few buttons is great. But... I have been wondering, what is the practical load limit of that ES rear shock?
The stock spring and 4 preload settings (one-up, one-up plus bags, 2-up, and 2-up plus bags) seems to work pretty well for my own situation. Although I am a "full sized American" guy (6'2" and 230 lbs) I am blessed to have a diminutive wife at 4'12" and just over 100lbs. So, our two up load is only 330lbs plus riding gear and luggage. The load capacity spec for the 2014ES is 467lbs total passengers and cargo, so we are well within that.

What happens to that rear shock's performance and longevity when you put two full sized Americans on it and their weights add up to 450 lbs plus gear and cargo? I suspect that may be important to some folks' decisions of whether to go with the ES or buy the A and an aftermarket shock and spring.

These are a very good questions. I don't know if heavier loads will reduce longevity but they will definitely effect performance due to increased sag. I did some measurements on a ES that was sitting in a local dealership (that I later bought) and it appeared that the sag was 53mm for a 390 lb load and I projected the sag for a 450 lb load would be 62mm. Using a shock spacer to increase preload on the ES probably is not a good option because it already is pretty close to the recommended preload limit (in the 2-up plus luggage setting) but I don't see any reason that a heavier spring wouldn't work (with the hard damping option) on the ES shock.

The A models have heavier springs (but less base preload) in the hard setting and have similar sag rates to the ES shock up to a 390 lb load. The projected sag for the A models with a 450 lb load would be 60mm. I think a 5mm shock spacer on the A shock would reduce the sag from 60 to 50mm...which would be close to ideal for 2-up riding.

Note: Use my numbers as estimates, its not easy to be precise when you are trying to take measurements in 1mm increments and where the weight is located is going to change the sag. Adding 20 lbs of rider weight will have much less impact than adding 20 lbs of trunk weight.