OK, now the horn is out.

[wheatonFJR]

wow...lots of helpful advice.

Good luck with your horn farkles. Don't burn up the harness.

 

[daddykevin]

Ok, thank you to everyone for your help. Here's where I am now:

I changed the fuse for the turn signals back to the 10 amp, turn signals emergency flashers and side markers all work.

Windshield operation has always worked, at lease since I bypassed the ground spider that controls it and the headlights.

The only farkles are the horns and the Skene LED lighting. With the Skene's disconnected there's no change, so I don't think that they're the problem.

The horns are a year old, I simply replaced the originals with the PIAA's, no change in wiring or relays.

I am concerned now, that the glove box solenoid may be contributing to the problem. This is the first that I've heard that it's on the same circuit as the horns. The glove box has been broken for months, in fact, I pulled it out the day before the horns stopped working to examine it. I don't recall seeing a solenoid or the wiring for anything other than the wiring for the power outlet, which, by the way, has never worked.

If the fuse is good, where is the horn relay?

Thanks.

 

[Ignacio]

If the fuse is good, where is the horn relay?

I don't believe there is a horn relay...unless they added one since Gen 1s. I thought they were live with just a fuse and the horn button. That's why people tend to add a relay if they upgrade to a higher juice horn system.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I am concerned that you keep mentioning the ground spider issue. Have the recalls for this been done yet? If not, you are chasing your tail and that needs to be step 1. Aren't the relays just behind the battery?

 

[Fred W]

There is no horn relay, unless you had added one. I think when folks heard that you had upgraded your horns they thought you had also added a horn relay. When your horns stopped working did you also blow that fuse? If you didn't then it's unlikely that the solenoid or any other peripheral is causing your horn problem.

Now, it's entirely possible that you have more than one problem going on. You may have both a short circuit in the running lights and turn signals that is intermittently blowing that fuse, and an open circuit somewhere in the horn circuit that is causing you to lose the horn. If you have a meter you can measure from the one of the two horn's brown colored wire to ground and you should have +12V at all times with ignition switched on. The pink wires get grounded through the horn switch when you push the button. You can also check that with the voltmeter.

edit - One more thing: what model of Skene LED light did you install? If it is the P3 it appears that these can be hooked up to both the running lights circuit (same fuse as the turn signals), and also the brake lights circuit (same fuse as the horns) so if you are blowing both the turn signal and the horn fuse that Skene light would still be suspect.

 

[daddykevin]

I am concerned that you keep mentioning the ground spider issue. Have the recalls for this been done yet? If not, you are chasing your tail and that needs to be step 1. Aren't the relays just behind the battery?

The recall for the ground spiders was performed by the dealer. After that, I have had 2 ground spider failures. Nice job.

There is no horn relay, unless you had added one. I think when folks heard that you had upgraded your horns they thought you had also added a horn relay. When your horns stopped working did you also blow that fuse? If you didn't then it's unlikely that the solenoid or any other peripheral is causing your horn problem.

Now, it's entirely possible that you have more than one problem going on. You may have both a short circuit in the running lights and turn signals that is intermittently blowing that fuse, and an open circuit somewhere in the horn circuit that is causing you to lose the horn. If you have a meter you can measure from the one of the two horn's brown colored wire to ground and you should have +12V at all times with ignition switched on. The pink wires get grounded through the horn switch when you push the button. You can also check that with the voltmeter.

edit - One more thing: what model of Skene LED light did you install? If it is the P3 it appears that these can be hooked up to both the running lights circuit (same fuse as the turn signals), and also the brake lights circuit (same fuse as the horns) so if you are blowing both the turn signal and the horn fuse that Skene light would still be suspect.

There are currently no blown fuses. Only 2 PIAA horns that do not blow. All other electrical items (sans the glove box solenoid) are working fine. It was the P3 that I installed. Not only conspicuity lighting, but also brake and turn signals as well.

 

[Fred W]

Do you have a multimeter to check for 12V at the brown horn wire?

Kevin, since you have had so many problems with the ground spiders, try this:

Disconnect the pink wire from one of your two horns, then with the key switched on, take a length of wire and short the bare terminal on the horn (where the pink wire used to be) to ground. If that horn blows it tells you that the problem with your horns is in the path thru the horn switch to ground, and not anything on the 12V supply side.

I don't know which spider handles the ground on the other side of the horn switch, that isn't shown in the wiring diagrams, but maybe you can chase it through the harness somehow?

 

[BikerGeek99]

I gotta dumb question.

Are you sure your horns themselves are still good? Any chance they coulda gone tits-up?

I'll shut up now and let the s-m-r-t people talk.

 

[SacramentoMike]

There is a ton of good advice offered here.

I very seldom wire anything without a relay and it's own fuze or breaker. It's cheap and saves letting the smoke out. Replacement smoke is VERY expensive.

Only $10.99 on Amazon.com. Hope this helps. (Um, just lightening the high-tech content a little. As always, the actual help offered around here is much appreciated. And following this thread is like a good whodunnit.)

(Edit: it's only by the purest coincidence that my post should follow

.)

 

[daddykevin]

Do you have a multimeter to check for 12V at the brown horn wire?

Kevin, since you have had so many problems with the ground spiders, try this:

Disconnect the pink wire from one of your two horns, then with the key switched on, take a length of wire and short the bare terminal on the horn (where the pink wire used to be) to ground. If that horn blows it tells you that the problem with your horns is in the path thru the horn switch to ground, and not anything on the 12V supply side.

I don't know which spider handles the ground on the other side of the horn switch, that isn't shown in the wiring diagrams, but maybe you can chase it through the harness somehow?

I'll definitely try this when I get home.

Thanks.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Sorry but every time I see the title to this thread, "Okay, now the horn is out", I think you are being treated for an accident involving an angry bull. I would expect the next line to be, "How do I stop the bleeding?"

Did we ever determine if the horns will function when wired directly to the battery?

 

[Harald]

I am concerned that you keep mentioning the ground spider issue. Have the recalls for this been done yet? If not, you are chasing your tail and that needs to be step 1. Aren't the relays just behind the battery?

The recall for the ground spiders was performed by the dealer. After that, I have had 2 ground spider failures. Nice job.

Your ground spider failures shouldn't be a cause of fuses blowing because because a typical ground failure is when a circuit loses it's ground. And even if a ground wire were to short to ground, it still won't blow a fuse.

But I'm curious which other ground spiders failed on you. Were they the ones in the nose above the headlights? I had one of those fail and consequently setup a thread to track failures of spiders other than the typical s4 spider failure (left side under tank). Please click here : https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=139511 and report your spider failure. Also please go to www.safercar.gov and report your failure so that if (when?) more failures accumulate, it might drive a better fix than the current bandaid recall. Be sure to note that you other spider failures are not related to the recall.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I am concerned that you keep mentioning the ground spider issue. Have the recalls for this been done yet? If not, you are chasing your tail and that needs to be step 1. Aren't the relays just behind the battery?

The recall for the ground spiders was performed by the dealer. After that, I have had 2 ground spider failures. Nice job.

Your ground spider failures shouldn't be a cause of fuses blowing because because a typical ground failure is when a circuit loses it's ground. And even if a ground wire were to short to ground, it still won't blow a fuse.

You are of course correct, a bad ground will not blow a fuse. Since he had made reference to the ground issue I wanted to make sure that had been taken care of already. My thought was to take care of the basic, known issue and work from there. I wanted to verify whether we had one problem or multiple issues.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled troubleshooting.

 

[daddykevin]

Do you have a multimeter to check for 12V at the brown horn wire?

Kevin, since you have had so many problems with the ground spiders, try this:

Disconnect the pink wire from one of your two horns, then with the key switched on, take a length of wire and short the bare terminal on the horn (where the pink wire used to be) to ground. If that horn blows it tells you that the problem with your horns is in the path thru the horn switch to ground, and not anything on the 12V supply side.

I don't know which spider handles the ground on the other side of the horn switch, that isn't shown in the wiring diagrams, but maybe you can chase it through the harness somehow?

Done, that was it.

Power directly to the horns and the horns sound. Started messing with the switch, without taking it apart, literally just poking at it and the horns start working. The bike hadn't been washed in a couple of months and it stays garaged. Should I replace the switch? Is it possible to clean it? I've never taken it apart so I'm not sure what's inside.

THANK YOU!!!

By the way, as far a spiders are concerned... mine was the one near the radiator on the left side. No surface evidence of a failure, but when I pulled it apart, I could see where it had burned. It caused the headlights to go out.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Glad you found the problem.

Really bummed about the whole spider issue for all GenII folks.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Do you have a multimeter to check for 12V at the brown horn wire?

Kevin, since you have had so many problems with the ground spiders, try this:

Disconnect the pink wire from one of your two horns, then with the key switched on, take a length of wire and short the bare terminal on the horn (where the pink wire used to be) to ground. If that horn blows it tells you that the problem with your horns is in the path thru the horn switch to ground, and not anything on the 12V supply side.

I don't know which spider handles the ground on the other side of the horn switch, that isn't shown in the wiring diagrams, but maybe you can chase it through the harness somehow?

Done, that was it.

Power directly to the horns and the horns sound. Started messing with the switch, without taking it apart, literally just poking at it and the horns start working. The bike hadn't been washed in a couple of months and it stays garaged. Should I replace the switch? Is it possible to clean it? I've never taken it apart so I'm not sure what's inside.

THANK YOU!!!

By the way, as far a spiders are concerned... mine was the one near the radiator on the left side. No surface evidence of a failure, but when I pulled it apart, I could see where it had burned. It caused the headlights to go out.

The switches on this bike are pretty simple. Usually just take them apart, clean them up, and reinstall. I don't remember any stray springs that will jump out and make you wonder where they came from.

Some Scotchbrite or fine sandpaper and some grease will prolly fix it up. Easy to do.

 

[azitlies]

okay, this is obviously a silly wag...

but have you ever done anything to that switch housing on the left side? like put on diff grips that caused you to have to file that little plastic nub down so you could move the housing out a little?

both the horn and signal switches are of course right there, next to ea other. Maybe it's gotten wet? wires are some how shorted?

I kind of hate electrical problems...

I would just like to point out.. the above brilliant post was the first one in this thread!

 

[daddykevin]

LOL!!!! Point taken!

Well done!

 

[Fred W]

So at this point we can safely say that the horn switch has/d was completely unrelated to your previously blowing fuses, right?

Did you ever figure out what was causing that?

 

[daddykevin]

Yes, the horn was completely unrelated. The fuse problem was caused by the Skene LED system having been poorly installed by the highly paid installer. When the bars are turned to the left, the Skene system was shorting out, so it has been disconnected awaiting a better install. More accurately, a better installer.

I just need to re-route the wires and it should be fine.

So... here you go... YOU WERE RIGHT! LOL!!! I'm back in love with the FJ again and have stopped looking at BMW's.

Thanks for all your help and your patience.