PAIRectomy. And yes, wtih pics.

[Capt. Bob]

BTW, after spending the day messing with web servers my brain is starting to hurt, someone want to explain why removing the PAIR helps with the popping on decel?

Is it because the added air causes the hot unburnt fuel to ignite in the exhaust pipes, hence the popping? Removing the air source eliminates the pop?

Capt. Bob

 

[radman]

Capn' has it right, for the most part. Provides fresh oxygen to a ready to light hot rich mix in the pipes on decel.

 

[Capt. Bob]

Capn' has it right, for the most part. Provides fresh oxygen to a ready to light hot rich mix in the pipes on decel.

Coming from you, that's a true compliment.

Thank you.

Capt. Bob

 

[BrunDog]

nowhere in any PCIII documentation on this bike is removing the air injection recommended or mandated.

Definitely not mandated, and forgot to add 'IMO' on that statement(sorry). Most people get a PCIII to compensate for at least pipes, and due to afterburn, most remove the PAIR system if present. It's hardly heard with stock pipes indeed. I've always read it's recommended due to the reasons quoted on post #4 here.

Bottom line: there's NO reason to remove it; I JUST WANT TO REMOVE IT. And no, I have no pipes, PCIII, or anything else. PAIR made sense on carbureted bikes where air rushing in on decel kept sucking fuel along with it (engine is an air pump). My BMW K1200RS didn't have a PAIR, so it's obviously not mandated now, especially with cats and O2 sensor (my BMW had both too). My guess is bike manufactures keep using the same tooling they had when it was necessary; that's why I don't feel guilty removing it. Adding more fuel thru a PCIII probably pollutes more. I'd feel more guilty removing the cats, and that's why I didn't do it on the BMW, and hope not having to do it on this bike (unless I drag them).

And as I said before, it takes me the same time to put back as removing a PCIII. Hope this ends the 'controversy'. Have a great day gentlemen.

JC

Alright, I'm down with this. I think your point is sound: its your bike and you'll do what you want to it. And you shared the pics in case anybody wants to, too. That's cool. I think we get sensitive because we also want to do cool stuff to our rides but then the brain stops us to ask why. Damn brain.

Shenanigans card duly put back in my pocket...

-BD

 

[ELP_JC]

Alright, I'm down with this. I think your point is sound: its your bike and you'll do what you want to it.

Actually the main reason to remove all that crap, besides it being of little use IMO, is to make it EASY to do TB adjustments without removing the tank, but nobody listens. Then you have the typical internet a$$holes making their (pink) comments that dissuades people from posting at all.

Just wanted to provide a service to fellow readers in case they're considering removing the system, that's all.

And yes, I can just tap those suckers, but unfortunately, if I do something, I like to do it right, and the only 'right' way is with a proper block-off plate, even when they're out of sight. Welcome to the world of anal retentives :blink: .

Cheapest way to make them is 5 sets for $200, which would be $40 (+$5 Priority USPS) per set of 3 plates, with 4 to sell. If somebody is interested, please PM me. This is not a GB folks; this is a one-time deal (do I have to run this by a mod?). By the way, I paid $30 + shipping for 2 little plates for my SV1000, and thought it was a ripoff. It's not that cheap.

Later guys.

JC

 

[v65]

Provides fresh oxygen to a ready to light hot rich mix in the pipes on decel.

Since the valve is only supposed to be open at idle, idle must mean butterflies closed? That was my hangup.

Anybody have any opinions on the PAIR and carbon buildup? What I have read has been mixed.

 

[radman]

Combustion chamber carbon? AIR dumps into the exhaust port, so not there. If anything, it reduces carbon as it facilitates complete burning of the residual gases exiting the port. As far as the AIR only operating at idle, my guess is it takes it's cue from the TPS, so that as soon as the throttle is closed, it comes into play, which would explain the popping. Shut the throttle, feed the fresh air. Frank popped with the D&D's off the stock header, even more with the complete Holeshot system. I pulled the whole shebang last winter, also during a valve adjust. Nice not having all the junk in the way. Just capped the reed blocks, no issues yet.

 

[v65]

Combustion chamber carbon? AIR dumps into the exhaust port, so not there. If anything, it reduces carbon as it facilitates complete burning of the residual gases exiting the port. As far as the AIR only operating at idle, my guess is it takes it's cue from the TPS, so that as soon as the throttle is closed, it comes into play, which would explain the popping. Shut the throttle, feed the fresh air. Frank popped with the D&D's off the stock header, even more with the complete Holeshot system. I pulled the whole shebang last winter, also during a valve adjust. Nice not having all the junk in the way. Just capped the reed blocks, no issues yet.

Wikipedia article briefly talks the AIR effect on exhaust valves: clicky. Unfortuntately there's just enough there to be interesting.

 

[ELP_JC]

Wikipedia article briefly talks the AIR effect on exhaust valves

I've never heard anything good about it, but plenty of the bad; hard to prove either way. Common sense dictates it's not good to get relatively cool air directly to the exhaust port, but modern materials might be impervious to that. That ancient system is junk to me anyway.

And I also agree the solenoid is triggered by either the TPS in its closed position, or vacuum sensor on high vacuum, because it's definitely activated on decel. Have a great day folks.

JC

 

[Capt. Bob]

[quote name='v65' post='276261' date='Jul 17 2007, 06:41 AM' And I also agree the solenoid is triggered by either the TPS in its closed position, or vacuum sensor on high vacuum, because it's definitely activated on decel. Have a great day folks.

JC

On my W650 Kawi, the "clean air system" was triggered by a vacuum operated valve. Sorta like those old wiper blades on my friend's 59 Chevy. They hardly moved when cruisin' but when you slowed down, they went nuts.

Capt. Bob

 

[jestal]

And yes, I can just tap those suckers, but unfortunately, if I do something, I like to do it right, and the only 'right' way is with a proper block-off plate, even when they're out of sight. Welcome to the world of anal retentives :blink: .

Carefull on what you dictate to us is "right". Block off plates might look cool and "cleaner" to you but functionally it makes more sense to me to plug the drilled passage in the head to the exhaust port so that the reed valves, the passage interface at the cam cover, etc. are completely out of the picture. My approach is "right" to me from a functionality standpoint as it functionally eliminates the AIR completely. Your way is clean looking to you but leaves the reeds in the sytem and allows for the eventuality of an exhaust leak at the cam cover interface. My way....I pitched the reeds and the whole system. The covers aren't even required except I didn't want water pooling in the AIR cavity left in the cam cover. Probably a moot point in either case but an example of what is "wrong" to you might be worth considering in the future before you dismiss it. Even if I put your block off plates on the cam cover instead of the OEM spigots I would tap and plug the port in the head to truely eliminate the system to do it "right."

 

[ELP_JC]

Carefull on what you dictate to us is "right".

It's definitely 'right' buddy. No need to 'gut' the entire system. Never done it. And never heard anybody do it. And never heard of anybody capping the reed valves having problems. It'll be just like stock man, but with no hole for air to go in, that's all.

The reed valves have a high-temp rubber gasket on top, and the block off plate will completely seal the port when bolted. The reed valves are a 1-way valve that only opens when there's air available to be sucked (I can take pics, if you guys want; there're 2 pieces inside those cavities, and the actual hole into the exhaust port is very small), so the plate doesn't get nearly as hot if valve is removed. Plus you'd need a special metal gasket. No thanks.

And most important of all, you WANT this to be reversible; I'd NEVER do it permanently, even though the system is junk to me. And since I'm fabricating the block off plates of exactly the same thickness (1/4"), stock bolts can be reused.

For those who reserved a set, the manual quote couldn't be guaranteed to my anal standards, so bit the bullet and spent a bit more (at my expense) to do it the best way, which is with a waterjet machine and an AutoCad drawing. The drawing won't be absolutely perfect the first time, but after a sacrificial set, it'll be corrected to be basically perfect. The machine itself has a tolerance of 0.005", which is nothing. You'll be pleased.

Finally, to avoid any leaks, I ordered the best flat stock available, which is T6061 aluminum in 1/4", guaranteed flat. The final pieces should be the best block off plates you've seen, and there'll only be 5 sets, including mine. Hope this is the last time I have to do this crap; much easier to just buy a set, like in the past. Have a great afternoon follks.

JC

 

[jestal]

And most important of all, you WANT this to be reversible; I'd NEVER do it permanently, even though the system is junk to me. And since I'm fabricating the block off plates of exactly the same thickness (1/4"), stock bolts can be reused.

All I need to do is unscrew 4 setscrews and put the system back together..................totally reverseable.

And I didn't have to fab or buy anything. The tap and setscrews were "in stock"...LOL.

Like I said, what is "right" to you is not the only "right" way to do it. Condemning other methods as "not right" is BS.... Just to keep things on an even keel, block off plates are not the only "right" way to eliminate the AIR system. They are just YOUR way.

BTW...I think this whole thing is making a mountain out of a mole hole. Removing the AIR system is not really that big of a deal. Many have done it years ago on the FJR so it is not new nor novel. It generally goes unmentioned as nothing is really gained by it unless other mods have been made to the bike/exhaust system or you REALLY cherish the real estate gained. Since you cannot see the AIR system any gain in neatness is really moot.

 

[FJRay]

And most important of all, you WANT this to be reversible; I'd NEVER do it permanently, even though the system is junk to me. And since I'm fabricating the block off plates of exactly the same thickness (1/4"), stock bolts can be reused.

All I need to do is unscrew 4 setscrews and put the system back together..................totally reverseable.

And I didn't have to fab or buy anything. The tap and setscrews were "in stock"...LOL.

Like I said, what is "right" to you is not the only "right" way to do it. Condemning other methods as "not right" is BS.... Just to keep things on an even keel, block off plates are not the only "right" way to eliminate the AIR system. They are just YOUR way.

BTW...I think this whole thing is making a mountain out of a mole hole. Removing the AIR system is not really that big of a deal. Many have done it years ago on the FJR so it is not new nor novel. It generally goes unmentioned as nothing is really gained by it unless other mods have been made to the bike/exhaust system or you REALLY cherish the real estate gained. Since you cannot see the AIR system any gain in neatness is really moot.

Gunny!!!!!

 

[ELP_JC]

Like I said, what is "right" to you is not the only "right" way to do it.

And who the hell said it was the 'ONLY' right way to do it? Need to read better buddy. There're many other 'right' ways to do it besides yours and mine.

Note to self: NEVER post anything like this again. Geez.

JC

 

[FJRay]

Like I said, what is "right" to you is not the only "right" way to do it.

And who the hell said it was the 'ONLY' right way to do it? Need to read better buddy. There're many other 'right' ways to do it besides yours and mine.

Note to self: NEVER post anything like this again. Geez.

JC

Thankyou

 

[odot]

Note to self: NEVER post anything like this again. Geez. JC

No, no.....please do. I invested in the popcorn industry and this forum alone is making big dividend checks out to me.

 

[ELP_JC]

Thankyou

Or better yet, STAY THE HELL OUT OF MY POSTS if you don't like me, or what I post. Go get the attention you crave somewhere else. And the same for the other ******** like you. You'll have the honor of being the first in my ignore list, so I don't read any more of your ****. Oh, I forgot: .

Good day to the rest.

JC

 

[donaldb]

Hey Odot............pass the popcorn........

beers in the fridge, help yourself.

 

[black mamba]

Hey ELP JC,

I appreciate someone who will take the time to generate informative posts, along with good pictures. A willingness to share knowledge is one of the successful cornerstones of this forum.

You should realize, however, that your manner of delivery and general demeanor are often offensive to others. You might want to practice a little more humility when making your offerings.

One well-meant piece of advice......I'd be a little bit cautious about jumping on Jestal. He can chew you alive if he wants to.