Passing slower vehicles

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Khunajawdge

Toto El Mundo!
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Discussion -

Every once in a while I find myself riding with another rider or a group of riders. In an attempt to maintain "The Pace", I discover the etiquette of passing slower vehicles sometimes seems inconsistently interpreted depending on who gets left behind in the string and the decisions that that individual rider makes. So permit me this descriptive. While riding in staggered formation;

1st - "if" I am in the lead (on a 2 lane road/traffic in both directions) I always try to get as close as I safely can to the vehicle I am about to pass in the left track, and wait for the best opportunity to swing out and around.

2nd - "if" another bike or bikes are trailing me, then I try to find the largest hole in the oncoming lane that I can, for some of those bikes to make the pass that are following me.

3rd - I try to only pass one car at a time, but my objective is to see a clear road ahead, considering adequate space and visibility while passing.

4th - when I pull in after the pass. I try to take the inside track so the rider following can fall into the outside track and regain staggered formation. This done, allowing for the most room to be taken by the following rider.

Now, if I am following a lead rider, and it looks like the lead rider is getting ready for a pass;

1st - I never try to pass that lead rider, I will wait for them to make their move first (this is a very important rule in my book).

2nd - I will come up slightly behind (holding back a safe distance) and stay in the right track of the lane to remain staggered with the lead who is set up for the pass in the left track.

3rd - As soon as the lead rider pulls out, I take the left track holding back a safe distance (less the slower vehicle makes an unpredictable move).

4th - "If" it is clear enough, the vehicle to be passed is not doing something dicey, visibility is a good distance, I may follow the lead bike in the pass, but I try not to be right on their butt.

5th - when I pull in behind the lead bike, I seek the track not occupied by the lead to re-establish the the staggered position in the track the lead is not using.

Obviously this discussion is about speed. How much throttle gets twisted to make the pass safely but expediently? The above of course gets varied when riding with bikes of differing displacements (especially those smaller than and FJR 1300).

Now "if" I am the lead rider here is the rub, sometimes the following rider gets stuck behind that slow mover for quite a while until there is a safe opportunity to pass the slower vehicle. If this is me stuck behind, then I feel pressured to catch up at the first opportunity that is safe, but apparently this is not a universally accepted idea? Sometimes it takes what seems like "forever" for the followers to get around the slow mover and re-establish the formation.

When this happens to you, how do you deal with it? What do you think?

 
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Obviously there are many many factors involved here. But IMHO I think the lead needs to have a good knowledge of the roads and traffic conditions as well as the size of the pack. i.e. If there is light traffic and lots of legal passing opportunities, and the pack is manageable, by all means, pass away. On the contrary, lots of traffic, few legal passing opportunities and a large pack, slow down and enjoy the scenery. Again IMHO.

Mark

 
It really does vary from situation to situation but the preocedures you lay out are sound and I usually follow similar guidelines. One situation not mentioned is where the lead rider is behind a large vehicle and the number two rider actually has a better view of the road ahead. In such a case, if I am riding behind the lead rider, I sometimes pull into the oncoming lane being careful to stay well behind the lead. Of course, bike to bike radios can be a big help in such a situation.

Generally, I never pass a rider who is ahead of me if I am riding in a group and I try, not always successfully, to anticipate what others may do.

 
I don't like to lead a group ride, but sometimes it happens.

When I am in the lead, I make my pass and try to be aware of the group behind me but I do not wait for them to pass. I move on and make the next pass and so on until I have clear road. At the next turn on the route I will pull over and wait for everyone to catch up.

When I am not leading, I expect the people ahead of me to behave the same way I do. This is normally discussed before heading out so everyone knows what to expect.

I find it too dangerous to wait in traffic for the other bikes to catch up because they will speed up to pass then have to brake to fall back in line.

Also, I don't like to ride in staggered formation unless we are on the slab. I do pass other riders in the group if they are riding slower than I want to ride, but only when there is plenty of room to make a safe pass.

 
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Generally, I never pass a rider who is ahead of me if I am riding in a group and I try, not always successfully, to anticipate what others may do.
+1

The leader is the leader. 3rd spot is 3rd spot. When in formation, maintain your position, especially when in a situation where you even NEED to consider passing protocol. We ride FJRs, not R1s.

You'll all meet-up eventually.

or maybe I'm just getting old

 
It (in my opinion) really depends. I agree with Borkerfork too.

I was out this weekend with 3 other bikes of different styles. They made me lead and I didn't want to pass unless the car in front was under the speed limit. We (our group) hadn't ridden before. I was on the safe side.

If you find a car in front of you that needs a good passing, the leader should pass and I pass just about as fast as I can to get it over with and I will try and get ahead of the car far enough so everyone can fit back in with plenty of room to spare. If I passed on the straights to get a clean run at the twisties, I make a clean run at the twisties.

Anyone else trapped behind the car has to do what they and their bike is comfortable with. At any stop I remind all that they should only do what they are comfortable with. If you don't want to do 70 mph, don't do it and we will get the message. We ain't leaving no one behind. But I am going to run the twisties and I am going for points. I'll wait for you on the straights. We are here to have fun. And I am not going to pass you (if I ain't lead) and I will give you as much room as you need. Safety first. Don't worry about me, worry about you.

If there is a slow car in front, the leader has to pass and it might take awhile for all to get comfortably by. I signal early. I want everyone to downshift when I put my signal on at least once and get ready. The last group included a V-Rod with no windshield and the rider with a 1/2 helmet, a Boulavard? again with the 1/2 helmet and a VFR with the right gear on.

We hit the big twisties and I wanted to follow. The FJR is so nice. At the breaks we talked about the ride. The cruisers were bailing out on the big curves and braking in the middle of the curve and coming out of the turn slower then they went in. And that is what we talked about. One guy on the Boulevard had never seen twisties before. You gotta set you speed prior to the turn and be in the right gear. You follow me next time and follow my line. And if you don't feel comfortable, slow down.

And for what it is worth, I am far from good on the FJR. At best I am Ok on a good day. I got 47 mpg on the trip based on the computer. "They" thought I was the ****, but I am far from it. But the goal is to make the group better and figure out who you are riding with. The goal isn't to go 100+ mph, the goal is to have the group "rock and roll" through the twisties at the highest rate of speed that everyone is comfortable with. And that is a beautiful thing.

And if all got back alive and learned something, it is a good day. And if all are eager to ride again, you did something right.

Art

 
Good post, George!

Too many dynamics, and too fluid, also, to make any sweeping discussion or attempting to modify other rider's behavior.

TOO MUCH DRAMA!

There is no easy answer and its one of the reasons that, lately, I have limited my "group" participation. Even when I have joined a group. I will leave early or late because there are just too many folks I've not ridden with and, at my advancing age, I tend to not be willing to trust others.

I really enjoyed the pace you set at the Morrow Bay weekend/ Nacimiento-Ferguson ride. That was FUN! Of course, it ended being a little too much fun for one rider..... :rolleyes:

WHEN leading a group, I plan to ride GPS speed limit +5 in the open country, speed limit -1 in towns (Particularly the Hwy 49 Gold Rush towns!).

If a vehicle NEEDS to be passed, I will pass and continue the above mentioned pace, expecting everyone else to "ride their own ride" and pass when safe to do so. Because I ALWAYS suggest participants read The Pace By Nick Ienatsch I assume they have actually done so and will endeavor to put it into practice. I know this isn't the case and it's obvious by the actions of some participants.

One hopes that every motorcyclist will "ride their own ride" but I've rarely seen that happen. I know who the fast and capable riders are and tend to let them go at their own pace....faster than I'm capable or willing. Part of riding one's own ride is knowing one's mental-emotional-physical state that day...or even afternoon (after lunch). Maybe I'm becoming more self-aware but I'm willing to admit when I'm at 70% and throttle back accordingly. OTH.... :rolleyes:

I much prefer the way we have been doing rides lately: Shared Destination. Everyone gets a map, everyone knows where we are stopping for a rest/stretch, fuel, lunch and ice cream/desert/whatever and everyone can pair or trio with other riders and enjoy the roads. Hopefully, since all have read THE PACE, they know to ride single file in the twisties, they know to leave 2-3 seconds spacing and they know to wait at corners so the trailing riders will see the change of direction. I know this isn't the case by the actions presented by riders who don't or won't participate in this kind and responsible behavior.

Basically, I'm becoming a cross, anti-social curmudgeon and find that I'm less tolerant of others and have begun to realize how much fun motorcycling is when the group is smaller. For instance, I had a wonderful ride to CFR as one of the Tres Amigos. Everyone knew the other riders habits and abilities, there were no surprises exhibited by any other rider, everyone kept their spacing...even on 450-550 mile days in inclement weather, everyone rode at a decent speed for conditions and we knew each other enough that nobody rode in another's blind spot or presented a "whoops" (or an "Oh she-ite!")[/i moment ]. Good roads, good scenery, good riders....it doesn't get much better than still smiling after 4500+ miles and wanting to go again.

 


It ain't brain surgery.......


 
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I do want to add something to my own item No. 4 which was brought up to me by a rider that I ride occasionally with.

> 4th - "If" it is clear enough, the vehicle to be passed is not doing something dicey, visibility is a good distance, I may follow the lead bike in the pass, but I try not to be right on their butt.

Matt says: : "I don't pass until the driver in the slower vehicle ahead of me, see's me in their rear view mirror"

I think this is a sound strategy!

All really good stuff, thanks everybody for contributing! :clapping:

 
Lots of good info/ideas here. My $0.02:

There are 6-8 of us who have similar riding styles and enjoy each other's company. We are usually in a group of 2-4, since we seldom get more of the group than that together at one time. We general ride a "loose formation" style and are confident that we do NOT have the "Lemming syndrome." We enter intersections and make passes when it's safe for us - individually - to do so. The leader may pass more than one vehicle; that doesn't mean that anyone else has to, but it can leave a bigger hole for rider(s) to fill between vehicles if the hole isn't partially filled by the leader. :) The front-runners hold up adequately for those farther back to stay reasonably "caught up," and we NEVER leave one of our group behind.

On those occasions when I find myself with a group where I'm either a) not familiar with all of the other riders, or B) know that some of the other riders either can't or won't be team players, I try to stay near the front of the group and keep a bit of extra space between me and other riders. If I happen to get the short straw, the ride is slower than normal, and passes are very seldom made. (I find these occasions happening with less frequency as I gain age and loose patience... After all, riding is about having fun and, while I want to see new riders introduced to the sport, I'm passing the torch, to a degree - I've done my time...)

 
Obviously there are many many factors involved here. But IMHO I think the lead needs to have a good knowledge of the roads and traffic conditions as well as the size of the pack. i.e. If there is light traffic and lots of legal passing opportunities, and the pack is manageable, by all means, pass away. On the contrary, lots of traffic, few legal passing opportunities and a large pack, slow down and enjoy the scenery. Again IMHO.
Mark
If the lead rider is Bokerfork, I hang on his wheel in race formation because, I know we will hit 135 real soon. :yahoo:

If the lead rider is OldMichael,,,,nevermind, he is always at the back and tells me I'm speeding.

 
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My experience and opinion is playing the catch-up game has the potential to be great fun or go real bad. I’ve followed riders who I could tell felt pressured to keep up with a group and watched with nervous anticipation, as their lines got twitchy or have blown corners entirely. I’m humbled to say my own catch-up mentality nearly took me out of this world in my 20’s so usually that little bit of OJT sneaks in when I’m feeling frisky. When Mike mentioned it not being rocket science I think I could take that to it’s raunchy extreme. It’s like scratching your balls; do it quickly, without fanfare and with as few witnesses as possible. :blink: Personally, I always try to put myself between two people I trust or I ride in the back.

Ride your own ride; everyone in the group should feel comfortable they will see you at the next change in direction.

 
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