Petition to stop cell phone use in automobiles

[Duff]

I don't think a new law is the answer. We just need accountability. If we held people accountable, maybe we would all think twice of the consequences before we acted. We have got to stop saying "Oh, well, they didn't mean to...".

AMHEN!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[SkooterG]

Riddle me this:

Without laws, how do you "hold folks accountable"? I mean, that is kind of the whole purpose of laws.

C'mon folks, think some of this stuff through before engaging the flapper.

 

[TheRepairMan]

I'm really glad to see a nice mixed discussion of cell phone use in use in our vehicles.

This is, from the first loss of a fellow biker involving a cage driver who was charged with a misdemeanor that occurred while he or she was too involved too pay attention, a serious problem and we all need to help find a solution.

I don't want to "profile" the drivers that we are having to deal with who fall in this category but we all know who they are, for the most part. The majority of us probably can multi-task during our daily commute but WE would also probably still not be wearing our seat belts to protect ourselves from more serious injury if it weren't for the safety laws passed.

It's more than about the distractions we all face out on the road, it's about saving lives and, all most as importantly, making people responsible for incidents in which innocent victims loose their lives where the vehicle at fault was being operated by another of us consumed by non driving related activities.

I have read the comments you all have made and I fully understand both sides of the subject, but instead of being critical of a drive to help save YOUR life, if you will, try being more constructive and help us work toward a workable solution to correct what has become statistically a very real problem.

Alright ...fire away once again ...but keep in mind that I and other proponents to this petition are only trying to save your ass too!

Roger B in Tennessee

 

[Penforhire]

I'm all for ticketing distracted drivers but I'm not in favor of a "cell phone ban" of any sort. FWIW, most proposed and implemented laws still allow hands-free cell phones and research (in Japan IIRC) shows the distraction impact is nearly the same as using a regular cell phone. My new car has a "perfect" Bluetooth hands-free system with my phone and I still agree with that research.

I am much more interested in allowing private citizens to possess short-range (100 to 150') cell service jammers. The FCC goes ape-shit over this right now but I have seen plenty of affordable hand-held units for sale. The most valid argument I heard against it was "what if a physician is on a critical call or misses a notification?"

It sure would be sweet to wave at someone who just tried to kill you because he was yakking on phone and cancel his call with a press of a button. Or to shut down one of those Nextel speaker-phone fools at a restaurant.

 

[TheRepairMan]

I am much more interested in allowing private citizens to possess short-range (100 to 150') cell service jammers.

Okay ...but whats' the teeny-bopper going to do a the second you approach her and her phone is cut off.

She's going to look down at the phone pad and start punching frantically to recover her conversation. By that time if she or he happens to be approaching an intersection she may inadvertently cut off your options to execute safe passage.

I'm all for ticketing distracted drivers but I'm not in favor of a "cell phone ban" of any sort. FWIW, most proposed and implemented laws still allow hands-free cell phones and research (in Japan IIRC) shows the distraction impact is nearly the same as using a regular cell phone. My new car has a "perfect" Bluetooth hands-free system with my phone and I still agree with that research.

Hey ...what activity the LEO's can't see won't hurt them (It's not like you are riding around visably unbuckled from your seat belt).

If you are mature enough and attentive to handle the handsfree distraction and still be a responsible driver ...so be it!

 

[Bounce]

I am much more interested in allowing private citizens to possess short-range (100 to 150') cell service jammers.  The FCC goes ape-shit over this right now but I have seen plenty of affordable hand-held units for sale.

+1

I researched these. You can buy them in the UK but the FCC restricts importation because they "broadcast" instead of receive (like a radar detector). They come in small and large area coverage units. I suspect the load of a large one would over load the FJR's charging system.

A 150' "cone of silence" would be perfect.

And those who are trying to turn it into a hyperbole about "add more laws or have no laws" are completely overstating reality (or what anyone else has even suggested). There are a ton of redundant (and outdated) laws still on the books. Enforce the ones we have before adding more. I've suggested elsewhere that legislators should be faced with removing one old law for each new law they want to pass. This would make them face up to the reality that just passing laws doesn't do anything if the existing laws aren't enforced. Each new law would have to be weighed to consider if it's worthwhile enough to remove an old law and, if so, what law would be selected for removal.

Passing more laws is as hollow an answer to existing problems as is the fiction that some how someone can do something that will make life "safe". It'll never happen. As riders we all understand that risks can be managed by they can't be completely removed from life. As riders we should already be pragamatic about the world. The "invinceable utopian" doesn't live long from the seat of a motorcycle.

 

[Maddog]

I have two general observations about the comments made thus far.

First, many individuals hold the opinion that they can "walk, talk and chew bubble gum" without any of those activities compromising the other (unlike other lesser members of the species). The reality is humans have limits of cognitive ablities no less real that the maximum speed of an FJR. FJR's cannot do 200 MPH unmodified for a variety of reasons. And humans cannot drive safely and operate a cell phone at the same time. Brain cells are a limited resource; you can use them to focus on driving or you can use them to have a conversation on a cell phone. But if you try to do both at once something will be compromised.

Second, some comments oppose the imposition of additional laws. I used to be in that boat; I always thought less government and less restrictions (i.e., laws) were the answers to many of societies problems. However I now find myself in litigation hell through my job. I see white collar scumbags get off clean because the laws existing at the time of the commission of certains acts was technically not illegal. So the bad guys skate and who pays the tab? Incidently our very partisan U.S. Congress was able to put aside their differences to make new laws that outlaw those acts that used to be legal. Why? Because society as a whole benefits from the new laws.

Also think about this, if you are ever hit by a driver talking on a cell phone and that act was illegal, how big an avantage do you think you would gain in a civil case for damages against that driver? And remember, it may not be you collecting the damages, it could be your spouse or children. I'd like to give them every opportunity to maximize the damage, if only financial, to the guilty party. Accountability anyone?

I'll sign the petition.

 

[Bearly Flying]

So if you get hit by a mini van Mom, fussing with junior in the back seat,does it make you feel any better.

Cell phones aren't the problem. Poor Drivers are.

 

[Windjammer]

I'll be brutally honest here. While I consider myself to be a pretty good driver, I've made some mistakes. When I was a teen, I rear-ended a guy on the freeway while messing with the radio. Rookie mistake. It seemed like I only looked down for a second, but when I looked up everyone had slammed their brakes on and I couldn't stop in time. I've missed the occasional stop sign or stoplight while chatting with a passenger, and they've had to remind me to stop. Oops, only got distracted for a second. A friend of mine rear ended a lady while putting his cigarette out in the ashtray. And yes, I use a cell in the car, and yes, it can be a distraction, just like the above short list of distractions.

I've learned not to mess with the radio in heavy traffic. Same goes for the cell. You learn, after some experience, to prioritize and put driving first. If the phone conversation requires too much attention, I just pull over into a parking lot or whatever's available.

I'm with Yanktar. Ban it all or don't bother. Why take my phone away but let people drive down the road reading books or putting make-up on? Or ride their motorcycles while pushing buttons on GPS, radar detectors, heat controllers, cruise controllers, satellite radios, intercoms - sometimes with all these options on the same motorcycle? Having all them gizmos on the scooter ain't my bag, to me it seems, um, too distracting. But I don't think it should be banned, because some people want those options, and they'll have to learn how to use them while they ride. A free country is a good thing, IMHO.

One other thing. Every time someone dies (traffic related or not) it seems pointless to me when the relatives go on a crusade with the "If we can save just one life, then Joe's death will have been worth something" attitude. Then they set out to restrict everyone's freedoms until its illegal to do anything but get out of bed. Shit happens - people die from lots of causes. Sometimes too soon, sometimes it's not fair, and if it's someone close to you it hurts a lot. But please wait until the emotional turmoil of that death has worn off before crusading to change the world "so it never happens again". Otherwise you're just being a pain in the ass to everyone else, for the purpose of justifying the death of your loved one.

So you won't find me signing a "ban the cell" petition. You might have more luck getting me to sign one to get all the legally blind drivers off the road. I think that would be a better place to start, from a safety perspective.

 

[nusman68]

I doubt 'banning' cell phones would have a significant impact; it is already against the law to speed, drink and drive, drive recklessly, etc and people still do it every day; the genie is out of the bottle; there is no way people would give up their phones now. From my perspective, it is all about personal accountability and enforcing the laws already in place. Just 2 days ago, some guy in an old Camry almost hit me (in my car) just because he was driving (literally) like a maniac; he was speeding, out of control as he pulled out of a subdivision--I don't know if he was having a bad day, just had a fight with his wife, or what. (He *was not* talking on a cell phone FWIW) Usually I would have followed and called in his plate and route of travel to the cops with my cell phone ( I have done this before with drunk drivers) but this time I had my son in the car and deemed it too risky. I'm sick & tired of blaming problems on 'the item' (whatever it may be) instead of holding people accountable for what they do with it.

About the only thing I have noticed that really seems to help are public service messages; as cheesy as it sounds, the stats seem to bear out that they help to significantly reduce the problem in question. The tragedy is that over the years they have been cut back due to budgetary constraints; here in Texas they are starting a new one however for DWI: "Buzzed driving IS drunk driving" for those who think driving 'with a buzz on' is no big deal.

 

[Bounce]

So if you get hit by a mini van Mom, fussing with junior in the back seat,does it make you feel any better. Cell phones aren't the problem. Poor Drivers are.

I thnk there ought to be a law that I get the woman in BF's avatar!

 

[FJRottie]

Interesting.

I'm with nusman68. People need to be held accountable. It isn't all about the "item". In the end though, we need enforcement. I see tons of idiots on the road daily, and I wonder, where the hell are the cops ? I see them in parking lots or sitting around trying to bag a speeder. I travel through two school zones on most days and get passed by numerous drivers going 10 over the school zone limit. Rampid running of red lights. Illegal turns. Blocking intersections. I see this many times a day in a not so large area. If I see it, and everyone at work sees it, obviously the cops are doing **** all. Tonnes of things like that going on. So in my area, we need better enforcement and penalties to make people think. There is blatent negligence going on around me. Driving is a priviledge not a right.

This is a free society, but act accountable and smarten the **** up. Pay the price for being an idiot.

Causing an accident while on the cell phone should be an extra penalty, already under "careless driving". Slap the idiot with more fines and charges. Ignorance is no excuse either. Driving around with your torso and one foot out the window is not written into law either, but I am sure you can get fined for that.

Anyway, neverending thread.

 

[radman]

About the only thing I have noticed that really seems to help are public service messages; as cheesy as it sounds, the stats seem to bear out that they help to significantly reduce the problem in question. The tragedy is that over the years they have been cut back  due to budgetary constraints; here in Texas they are starting a new one however for DWI: "Buzzed driving IS drunk driving" for those who think driving 'with a buzz on' is no big deal.

Google the name "Jacqueline Saburido". Nusman should be familiar with the young lady, a good example of what happens when a bad system is in place. I agree-change the drivers, not the rules. You hit someone while screwing around, you pay big time. Period.

Watch this and try not to cry. Horror

 

[donaldb]

I mentioned in my post yesterday about my wife running a red light, getting a ticket, and comming home raising hell, I have begged and pleaded w/her to stop talking on the phone while she drives. She will no listen, she does not care, she is your (motorcycle rider's) worst nightmare. I have told her such, that one of these days she is going to hit someone an hurt or kill someone or herself, and it very likely could be me that she hits! None of that does any good, it's an addiction!

Windjammer mentioned in his post other distractions that are just as dangerous, changing radio channels, putting out cigerettes, gps entries, intercoms, radar detectors, etc. I absolutely agree, they are all distractions, however as a general rule they are short term distractions--though arguably just as deadly--wrong place--wrong time---etc. I have been in the car w/my wife driving and she will talk on that dam phone dang near the whole time until she gets to her destination. I'll take my chances w/short term distracted drivers over cell phone talkers any day, any time! If anyone ever rides through Jackson, MS stay away from a white female in a 2000 Honda Accord--silver, she will be on the phone and wont have a clue you are anywhere near :bigeyes: I can talk like this because my wife and I have had this conversation several times and she knows how I feel.

Wish, I had the answer, you guys are all smarter than me, so I will let ya'll figure out what the answer is, to ban? or not to ban? Personally, I'd prolly feal a bit safer riding if no one was allowed to talk/use cell phones while driving, I dont listen to music while on my bike, no gps, no radar detector, no intercom, no powerlet-heated clothing, no CELL phone etc. just me and the bike

 

[radman]

There are many distractions available for easy use in todays cars. Used to be, the very act of driving/riding itself was so all-consuming one couldn't help but focus-imagine trying to use a cell phone in a 53 Pontiac Chieftan with a straight 8 and a three speed on the column-all but impossible to steer (no pwr), shift (one hand on the wheel, one on the shifter, one foot on the clutch) or come to a stop (all of the above simultaneously). We have gotten so far away from driving being a physical act of control and skill that it's no wonder things are the way they are. It once was that the skill, strength and desire needed to drive successfully kept the ill equipped away from the wheel-but no more. Any moron can jump behind the wheel of a vehicle weighing as much as a WWII medium tank and hit the road-as well as anything else in his/her path. Our success has more or less sealed our fates............... :blink:

 

[Thumperbike]

What is a LEO anyway?

 

[SkooterG]

What is a LEO anyway?

Law Enforcement Officer

 

[Thumperbike]

check

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

While reading thru I was also assessing my position until I came to rad's post:

It once was that the skill, strength and desire needed to drive successfully kept the ill equipped away from the wheel-but no more. Any moron can jump behind the wheel of a vehicle

My sentiments exactly. It gets increasingly difficult to find a car that needs its operator to do anything more than guide it. Sadly it seems motorcycles are going this way, too (scooters); and ATVs already have (except for comp. models). It's called "The Dumbing-Down of America". As rad said, to make matters worse -- the vehicles are huge. Housewives want even bigger SUVs in order to see over the other ones speeding in close formation on the metro freeways.And, don't pass laws you don't want to enforce. Texas years ago didn't have an open-bottle law. The LEOs were against having one -- as it was they could identify the drinking drivers because they could see them in the act. The "buzz on" campaign also reminds me of the Texas bill-board, "...You Can't Afford It". Which addresses our society's affluence and that (while some can easily and willingly pay) laws usually un-fairly burden only the poorer factions of U.S. society. Do like Finland and tie the fine to income.

Ultimately there appears a crying need to reverse the dumbing-down trend. That, my friends, is called education.

 

[TheRepairMan]

I mentioned in my post yesterday about my wife running a red light, getting a ticket, and comming home raising hell, I have begged and pleaded w/her to stop talking on the phone while she drives. She will no listen, she does not care, she is your (motorcycle rider's) worst nightmare. I have told her such, that one of these days she is going to hit someone an hurt or kill someone or herself, and it very likely could be me that she hits! None of that does any good, it's an addiction!

Wish, I had the answer, you guys are all smarter than me, so I will let ya'll figure out what the answer is, to ban? or not to ban? Personally,  I'd prolly feal a bit safer riding if no one was allowed to talk/use cell phones while driving, I dont listen to music while on my bike, no gps, no radar detector, no intercom, no powerlet-heated clothing, no CELL phone etc. just me and the bike

Answer ! :yahoo:

Get on line and buy one of those short-range (100 to 150') cell service jammers

and hide it inside her car. :lol:

That will stop that ...until she realizes it her phone still works everywhere else

...then she'll run to the car lot and trade it in. :dribble: so be sure to also buy a

tracking devise. :haha: