Powerband very different after minor mechanical work

[ionbeam]

What you're describing is just what I felt after my CCT replacement...The clue is first sentence in post #18 Whacking the throttle anywhere above 2K and the FJR should take off like a scalded dog...I know its not fun to think about having to get your wrench to go back to fix his probable (very likely) mistake but I think you have to do it.

If checking the fast and easy doesn't find the problem then I would run with FJReady's assessment. Russ is one of the 'Been There, Done That' guys that knows what he is advising. I have 100% confidence in what ever he says

 

[dannymax]

What you're describing is just what I felt after my CCT replacement. I got $10 that says your cam chain timing is off. The clue is first sentence in post #18 Whacking the throttle anywhere above 2K and the FJR should take off like a scalded dog.

I know its not fun to think about having to get your wrench to go back to fix his probable (very likely) mistake but I think you have to do it.

This is exactly how it went before the wrenching.

Sounds like messing up the cam timing is extremely easy to do despite taking precautions against it. I'll call him in the morning and let him know I have to bring it back. I doubt he'll have any issues with it he's a reasonable guy but, whatever....I want my power back!!

Thanks for all the valuable info and advice, I'll post a follow-up when this gets resolved.

 

[dannymax]

What you're describing is just what I felt after my CCT replacement...The clue is first sentence in post #18 Whacking the throttle anywhere above 2K and the FJR should take off like a scalded dog...I know its not fun to think about having to get your wrench to go back to fix his probable (very likely) mistake but I think you have to do it.

If checking the fast and easy doesn't find the problem then I would run with FJReady's assessment. Russ is one of the 'Been There, Done That' guys that knows what he is advising. I have 100% confidence in what ever he says

Thanks I/B, this means a lot.

 

[dannymax]

Took my bike back to the shop this morning and they immediately put it up on the dyno. They ran a HP run with no torque numbers....it pulled 120.2 hp with a nice curve with no flat spots.

From what I can find here this isn't outstanding HP but acceptable.

Then he took it for a road test and said there is a spot in 5th at 3400 - 3500 where, if you whack it WOT it doesn't respond as well as when you roll it on.

After I got home I took it out and did the 3500 roll on, she responded well, I was at full throttle by the time the speedo reached 80 or so and it continued up to 120 with no sign of falling off....that's where I wimped out!

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

 

[RadioHowie]

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

Sounds like it's down about 10hp at the rear wheel.

Buy a new air filter.

 

[yamafitter]

Took my bike back to the shop this morning and they immediately put it up on the dyno. They ran a HP run with no torque numbers....it pulled 120.2 hp with a nice curve with no flat spots.

From what I can find here this isn't outstanding HP but acceptable.

Then he took it for a road test and said there is a spot in 5th at 3400 - 3500 where, if you whack it WOT it doesn't respond as well as when you roll it on.

After I got home I took it out and did the 3500 roll on, she responded well, I was at full throttle by the time the speedo reached 80 or so and it continued up to 120 with no sign of falling off....that's where I wimped out!

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

It sounds more like a mapping issue. If you had a Power Commander they could probably use the dyno and adjust the air/fuel ratio to dial out the bog if it really bothers you.

 

[dannymax]

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

Sounds like it's down about 10hp at the rear wheel.

Buy a new air filter.

Thanks, Which works better K & N or OEM Yammer?

 

[FJR Bill]

Please tell me what is the CCT.

Thanks, Bill

 

[yamafitter]

Please tell me what is the CCT.

Thanks, Bill

CCT = Cam Chain Tensioner, much discussed on this forum.

 

[dannymax]

Took my bike back to the shop this morning and they immediately put it up on the dyno. They ran a HP run with no torque numbers....it pulled 120.2 hp with a nice curve with no flat spots.

From what I can find here this isn't outstanding HP but acceptable.

Then he took it for a road test and said there is a spot in 5th at 3400 - 3500 where, if you whack it WOT it doesn't respond as well as when you roll it on.

After I got home I took it out and did the 3500 roll on, she responded well, I was at full throttle by the time the speedo reached 80 or so and it continued up to 120 with no sign of falling off....that's where I wimped out!

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

It sounds more like a mapping issue. If you had a Power Commander they could probably use the dyno and adjust the air/fuel ratio to dial out the bog if it really bothers you.

It doesn't bother me all that much, I can get good power if I apply the throttle a little slower than whacking it wide open. My normal driving style is not whacking it but rather rolling on what I need to pass, or whatever, and then getting back out of it.

 

[RadioHowie]

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

Sounds like it's down about 10hp at the rear wheel.

Buy a new air filter.

Thanks, Which works better K & N or OEM Yammer?

"Chocolate or Vanilla?"

You'll get a bunch of responses, but OEM will NEVER cause over-oiling problems in your intake.

 

[dannymax]

Does the 120.2 HP raise any flags with anyone?

Sounds like it's down about 10hp at the rear wheel.

Buy a new air filter.

Thanks, Which works better K & N or OEM Yammer?

"Chocolate or Vanilla?"

You'll get a bunch of responses, but OEM will NEVER cause over-oiling problems in your intake.

Good point! That could be a problem with me too....if a little is good then a barrel full must be better! :lol:

 

[carlson_mn]

I'll bet anything it's the timing. When I replaced my CCT I was so confident I had tied the timing chain tightly with a cable tie that I didn't even check after changing it out, to see if the timing was right. That was a mistake. The bike started and ran OK but when it warmed up it wouldn't idle. I kept telling myself there was no way the timing chain had slipped, but after checking everything else under the sun, I figured I'd waste a little time and check it even though I *knew* it wasn't going to be off. Well, it was. Check it.

I did the same thing and mine was off the exact same amount. When the CCT is tightened up the bottom crank sprocket WANTS to skip a tooth without letting you know.

I would bet my dollar the timing is off. It is so easy to skip a tooth if you don't DOUBLE check the alignment marks AFTER turning the engine a couple times by hand.

My bike ran good, idled just slightly off and hanged a bit low around 1000, the big thing was just a noticeable power loss in the midrange and it did not want to power wheel in 1st gear anymore. The top end power was still mostly there.

 

[dannymax]

I'll bet anything it's the timing. When I replaced my CCT I was so confident I had tied the timing chain tightly with a cable tie that I didn't even check after changing it out, to see if the timing was right. That was a mistake. The bike started and ran OK but when it warmed up it wouldn't idle. I kept telling myself there was no way the timing chain had slipped, but after checking everything else under the sun, I figured I'd waste a little time and check it even though I *knew* it wasn't going to be off. Well, it was. Check it.

I did the same thing and mine was off the exact same amount. When the CCT is tightened up the bottom crank sprocket WANTS to skip a tooth without letting you know.

I would bet my dollar the timing is off. It is so easy to skip a tooth if you don't DOUBLE check the alignment marks AFTER turning the engine a couple times by hand.

My bike ran good, idled just slightly off and hanged a bit low around 1000, the big thing was just a noticeable power loss in the midrange and it did not want to power wheel in 1st gear anymore. The top end power was still mostly there.

Well, this is going to drive me nuts until I check those timing marks and verify, one way or the other, what the deal is.

I'm thinking I can get the answer by removing the valve cover and rotating the motor until the holes in the cams line up with the arrows on the caps, then look at the timing marks on the sprockets....correct?

I killed some trees getting RadioHowies CC Replacement post and also have a service manual, should be able to get in all sorts of problems with that much info.

 

[carlson_mn]

Yes, you'll need to pull the valve cover to see the dots on the cams that line up with the line/arrow on the cam holders, then the T mark on the crank sprocket lines up with a line/case edging that is very noticeable once you have the cover off. As the pic above shows if it skips one tooth down below it will throw it all off, but not enough to do any damage or any obvious problems unless it's your bike and you know how it was after.

You can most likely throw out the dirty filter idea because that's not something that's going to develop overnight, but rather over many thousands of miles. It's pretty tough to mess up the airbox, it's all one piece and either goes on the throttle bodies or it doesn't. Almost all of the FI sensors will default to average atmospheric conditions if they are unplugged, for instance the intake air temp sensor defaults to 68F, and same with atmospheric pressure sensor - to average pressure.

You'll need a T30 torx to remove 2 of the 4 screws holding in the coolant pipes. The other two are hex. Also, adjustable sockets (jointed) will help greatly and may be necessary to remove the cam shaft holders. The corner bolts are pretty much under the frame. And then there's the CCT bolt... PM if you have questions or need help. It's a bit of a job the first time and pretty easy the 2nd time.

 

[RadioHowie]

You can most likely throw out the dirty filter idea because that's not something that's going to develop overnight, but rather over many thousands of miles.

I'd pretty much place my money, if I were a bettin' man, on a mis-timed cam, BUT, the dealer did say they "blew out" the air filter...

They may have only managed to pack the dirt in there so tight, the engine's strangling.

But I'd bet on the chain having slipped a tooth.

 

[dannymax]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the information.

I'll be diving into this this morning and hope to have some answers later today.

I mean......"what could possibly go wrong"?

 

[dannymax]

I'll bet anything it's the timing. When I replaced my CCT I was so confident I had tied the timing chain tightly with a cable tie that I didn't even check after changing it out, to see if the timing was right. That was a mistake. The bike started and ran OK but when it warmed up it wouldn't idle. I kept telling myself there was no way the timing chain had slipped, but after checking everything else under the sun, I figured I'd waste a little time and check it even though I *knew* it wasn't going to be off. Well, it was. Check it.

Well, this is exactly what mine looks like....if the tick mark on the crank sproket is supposed to line up with where the cases mate, then it looks like it jumped a tooth! The tiny holes in the cams line up with the cap arrows, I will take some pics for verification but I haven't gotten to the point of being able to post them yet.....maybe a knowledgeable member could PM me an e mail add'y and I'll forward the pics for them to post.

I don't think there is a lot of doubt but would sure appreciate some 'wiser eyes' than mine to have a look. Thanks.

 

[carlson_mn]

yes you are correct. With the dots on the cams lined up with the arrow and line on the cam holder, the mark on the crank sprocket should point exactly at the crease where the cases mate. There was no doubt in my mind after you described your symptom, just happened to me last week.

As far as pics go, just make an account at photobucket.com and upload your pics there, and each pic is given a link you can copy and paste into a forum, and the pic shows up.

 

[dannymax]

yes you are correct. With the dots on the cams lined up with the arrow and line on the cam holder, the mark on the crank sprocket should point exactly at the crease where the cases mate. There was no doubt in my mind after you described your symptom, just happened to me last week.

As far as pics go, just make an account at photobucket.com and upload your pics there, and each pic is given a link you can copy and paste into a forum, and the pic shows up.

Thanks, I'll see if I can manage that.