Practicing panic stops on the FJR with ABS

[Eric L]

So I have put about 10K on the FJ, but have never had to really slam on the brakes in a real life situation. I take it upon myself to do parking lot drills for low speed maneuvering and have been practicing panic stops. Went from 20MPH, and am now practicing stops from ~50MPH. What I've noticed is (besides that massive shift in my mass forward on hard braking) is that I am not engaging the ABS, or at least I thought I wasnt. It's like that "did you have an orgasm? Well I've never had one, how do I know.. I might have"...

So after the hurricane blew over and dumped lots of wet leaves on the roads, I went out and found some really slick straightaways and tried braking on the wet leaves. Aha, so that's what the ABS feels like. Well, it was more like HOLY CRAP so THATS what the ABS feels like.

I clearly have not been triggering it with my nice sticky pilot roads II tires on clean dry pavement. Does this mean I am leaving some braking action unused? Should I be practicing panic stops to the edge of ABS and beyond? :huh:

 

[ehc0720]

So I have put about 10K on the FJ, but have never had to really slam on the brakes in a real life situation. I take it upon myself to do parking lot drills for low speed maneuvering and have been practicing panic stops. Went from 20MPH, and am now practicing stops from ~50MPH. What I've noticed is (besides that massive shift in my mass forward on hard braking) is that I am not engaging the ABS, or at least I thought I wasnt. It's like that "did you have an orgasm? Well I've never had one, how do I know.. I might have"...

So after the hurricane blew over and dumped lots of wet leaves on the roads, I went out and found some really slick straightaways and tried braking on the wet leaves. Aha, so that's what the ABS feels like. Well, it was more like HOLY CRAP so THATS what the ABS feels like.

I clearly have not been triggering it with my nice sticky pilot roads II tires on clean dry pavement. Does this mean I am leaving some braking action unused? Should I be practicing panic stops to the edge of ABS and beyond? :huh:

Well I've had mine come on with dry pavement and good tires!!!

 

[Eric L]

Well I've had mine come on with dry pavement and good tires!!!

So you ARE calling me a wuss <_<

 

[azitlies]

So I have put about 10K on the FJ, but have never had to really slam on the brakes in a real life situation. I take it upon myself to do parking lot drills for low speed maneuvering and have been practicing panic stops. Went from 20MPH, and am now practicing stops from ~50MPH. What I've noticed is (besides that massive shift in my mass forward on hard braking) is that I am not engaging the ABS, or at least I thought I wasnt. It's like that "did you have an orgasm? Well I've never had one, how do I know.. I might have"...

So after the hurricane blew over and dumped lots of wet leaves on the roads, I went out and found some really slick straightaways and tried braking on the wet leaves. Aha, so that's what the ABS feels like. Well, it was more like HOLY CRAP so THATS what the ABS feels like.

I clearly have not been triggering it with my nice sticky pilot roads II tires on clean dry pavement. Does this mean I am leaving some braking action unused? Should I be practicing panic stops to the edge of ABS and beyond? :huh:

Sounds to me (without actually being there) that you are doing fine. I've never gotten the ABS to kick in on dry roads (but have always had decent tires).

The fjr is my first bike with ABS. My prior ST1300 didn't have ABS, and practicing emer braking with it I never made the front tire skid. But! I did make the forks bottom out and the tire was wallowing side to side... I don't think it could have taken much more stopping input, but I was at the max of input...

The fjr on the other hand has good enough springs to not behave this way on heavy braking, which is great. So my experience suggests you are doing fine, and it's good to hear you practice this. I try very hard in ea BRC class I teach to get people to understand emer braking and swerving we take for granted in our cars, but we can't take them for granted on our bikes. They are completely different skills.

It's great you've not had to do emer braking in so many miles. But the definition of an emergency is simply that we never know when they will occur... else they wouldn't be emergencies...

enjoy,

 

[ehc0720]

Well I've had mine come on with dry pavement and good tires!!!

So you ARE calling me a wuss <_<

Not at all, wish I never had ABS come on in real life.

 

[SkooterG]

You're a wuss.

Whenever I demo any bike with abs I brake hard enough to get the abs activated and see how it works. I have less then 20 miles on Gen II FJRs and have activated the abs many times.

You're a wuss.

 

[Burnspot]

I get out in a parking lot every once in awhile and test the ABS out just to keeping the feeling fresh, so to speak. Got to test it out for real when following Patriot one time, lol...I think a few of us tested it out on that particular instance. I'll get into it on occasion when tooling around the countryside and spotting a tasty side road that looks worthy of exploration. Personally, I think it's a good thing to get out and test it a bit just so you know what to expect when you call it into action for real.

 

[wmadoty]

I have felt the ABS kick in when breaking hard and downshifting at the same time. Used to have the rear wheel break loose under the same circumstances on the XS-11. So far the front has stayed pretty well planted. She slid a little at the front end when the stock tire was a little worn and cornering hard, but never while breaking.

 

[Ignacio]

So I have put about 10K on the FJ, ....... What I've noticed is (besides that massive shift in my mass forward on hard braking) is that I am not engaging the ABS, or at least I thought I wasnt.

I would say that your problem is the FJ doesn't have ABS. FJ's were a model in the 80's and 90's and didn't have ABS available...even if they were a heck of an air-cooled 1200cc bike.

It wasn't until the FJR was released in 2004 that ABS was an option and standard starting in 2006.

I'd suggest buying an actual FJR with actual ABS, going to a parking lot, and stabbing the brakes until they activate.

 

[SkooterG]

I would say that your problem is the FJ doesn't have ABS. FJ's were a model in the 80's and 90's and didn't have ABS available...even if they were a heck of an air-cooled 1200cc bike.

It wasn't until the FJR was released in 2004 that ABS was an option and standard starting in 2006.

Uhhhhh..........actually............

The old FJs had an abs option available. Not sure what years, but it was an option.

 

[azitlies]

Question for you guys getting the ABS activated on dry roads... are you using both brakes or just the front? I know it has linked brakes, no need to explain. I'm asking are you using just the front with your hand or foot also on rear brake?

Also, are you just grabbing the front as hard as you can right off the bat? Just curious as to why it's working for you and not me...

 

[Ignacio]

Uhhhhh..........actually............

The old FJs had an abs option available. Not sure what years, but it was an option.

You're right. 1200A from '91 to '96 was an option.

But, the FJ still ain't an FJR.

 

[ionbeam]

It would be good to know that your ABS was working correctly before grabbing a hand full of the front brake.

You can practice hard braking, you can practice emergency handling but you can't practice panic stops.

 

[Donal]

Question for you guys getting the ABS activated on dry roads... are you using both brakes or just the front? I know it has linked brakes, no need to explain. I'm asking are you using just the front with your hand or foot also on rear brake?

Also, are you just grabbing the front as hard as you can right off the bat? Just curious as to why it's working for you and not me...

For me - I would never use the rear brake in a full on emergency stop. When you brake hard, all the weight goes forward which unloads the rear wheel and will lead to the rear wheel trying to lock up. The ABS will probably prevent it locking up but you really do want to have that rear wheel spinning to provide gyroscopic stability.

I was taught to ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs which removes the temptation to hit the rear brake.

When you apply the front brake; the ideal way is to apply some brake until the suspension settles, then start squeezing with increasing pressure (all this is in milliseconds). This sequential process prevents the front suspension bottoming and bouncing back (very unsettling), then as you 'load' the front tyre, the contact patch enlarges and your grip increases. You will know you are getting good when you can flatten the front tyre :lol:

I have no problem stopping from 40 MPH in less than 10 metres on wet roads, without the ABS kicking in. I practice it every time I go out. YMMV

Don

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

One more hint for stability under hard braking (ABS activated or not).. Grip the tank hard with your knees. It will allow easier turning, if you're in an evasive maneuver, plus you won't have your arms locked straight (which gives bad input to the bars). Just one more thing I learned at a track day.....

 

[Eric L]

First off, I assume that the whole FJ thing was a joke. The bike is a 2009. I used to call it FJR, but since we've been spending so much time together, we have nicknames for each other. Her's is FJ, mine is Lovemaster.

Anyway, I do seem to be breaking damn hard. I am using the back brake too, which does seem to settle the back down somewhat. I practice all my swerving and stuff in an empty lot, but I am not keep on 50mph runs in the lot. Well, I'll push it a bit. Nice to know the limits of the system. Certainly hard stops from 50 are less exciting than they were at the beginning.

 

[Donal]

One more hint for stability under hard braking (ABS activated or not).. Grip the tank hard with your knees. It will allow easier turning, if you're in an evasive maneuver, plus you won't have your arms locked straight (which gives bad input to the bars). Just one more thing I learned at a track day.....

Completely agree with that. I was taught to carry out front (emergency) braking with my left hand off the bar. This definitely gets your attention and convinces you not to apply any weight to the bars through only one hand :blink:

Don

 

[phroenips]

For me - I would never use the rear brake in a full on emergency stop. When you brake hard, all the weight goes forward which unloads the rear wheel and will lead to the rear wheel trying to lock up. The ABS will probably prevent it locking up but you really do want to have that rear wheel spinning to provide gyroscopic stability.

You're leaving a lot of braking power on the table if you don't use the rear. First off, the ABS *WILL* prevent it locking up (assuming it's working), but you also must remember our linked braking system. If you don't use that pedal, you're also not getting use of one of the calipers up front.

Personally, I always use both front and rear. Hopefully, in a panic situation, that habit will stick and I'll have the bike's full stopping capabilities at my disposal.

 

[azitlies]

For me - I would never use the rear brake in a full on emergency stop. When you brake hard, all the weight goes forward which unloads the rear wheel and will lead to the rear wheel trying to lock up. The ABS will probably prevent it locking up but you really do want to have that rear wheel spinning to provide gyroscopic stability.

You're leaving a lot of braking power on the table if you don't use the rear. First off, the ABS *WILL* prevent it locking up (assuming it's working), but you also must remember our linked braking system. If you don't use that pedal, you're also not getting use of one of the calipers up front.

Personally, I always use both front and rear. Hopefully, in a panic situation, that habit will stick and I'll have the bike's full stopping capabilities at my disposal.

I find it disturbing that us riders don't know what phroenips mentions here....

General consensus is that front brake is about 70% stopping power... and rear brake is 30%...

why would anyone in the wide wide world of sports not want to use 100% of their stopping power? It makes no logical sense?

When I practice emer braking, I always use both brakes, and on dry roads, I don't think I"m getting the ABS to kick in... and I ain't no wimp you wussies!