Practicing Panic Stops?

[starcruiser(aka downn2)]

One point many folks miss in practicing braking, is to include their passenger in the drill. I practice emergency stops with my wife on back, so she knows what to expect under heavy hard braking. Of course, I warn her about it before I do. It has helped in many cases where I had to put the binders on hard when she is on back as now she knows how to react. It has taught her to keep her hands on or near the grab rails at all times.
On the 06 with linked brakes and ABS you won't be able to get full braking force on the front brakes unless you use BOTH front and rear brake levers. It takes a bit of re-learning on linked brakes, as like many folks, I try to go real easy on the rear so it won't lock up. ABS takes the worry out of locking the rear, so you are free to put more pressure on it, and since this also applies force to the front brakes, you won't get full front brakes without adding some rear. I try to use both brakes together on every stop.

Which brings me to another point. You should brake the same way on almost every stop as you would in a panic stop. This is because in a panic, you will fall back to your normal stopping routine by default. So if you stop with BOTH brakes (on an 06 anyway) every time, this will be what you do by habit in a panic.

After owning two bikes with Linked Brakes and ABS, I won't ever buy another bike without them.

Great Post......I never thought about practicing with my wife...but you're right. I'm sure braking with a passenger is a totally different experience.....and the last thing I want to see is my wife sailing over my head.....That would definately make for a bad day.

 

[Stray Bullet]

Those of you signed up for Steetmasters should experience some hard braking. They'll have you doing some parking lot drills mimicking panic stops. I induced my ABS to show itself several times. I like it!

 

[boardsNbikes]

Two people now have recommended practicing stopping using only the front brake......which seems highly unusual,, as that used be a suicidal thing to do back when......I guess linked brakes means if I hit the front brakes some force will be sent to the rear brakes as well and visa versa?

Yea, that front brake will just flip you over in a split-second :grin:

 

[chickey191]

Please advise just how you've achieved a proficiency on PANIC STOPS.......maybe you started at 20 MPH, then tried 40 MPH, then 60, then 80, then 100 or what? Do you hit the brakes as hard as you can at say 40 -60mph until you come to a complete stop or what?

There's a big difference, in my recent experience, between practice and reality. The reason I now ride an FJR, apart from gaining enlightenment, is because I wrote off my ST1300 on the arse of a Toyota RAV4 in circumstances that weren't really my fault.

"How could that be, Hitcher?" I hear you ask?

Well, a Sunday ride turned to custard when the driver of the said RAV4 that I was following managed to get his vehicle into reverse gear at about 100kmh in the overtaking lane along which I was following. My first indication that something may be awry was noting his reverse lights had come on. "Interesting," I thought. Followed a couple of moments later by the realisation that he had come to a complete stop. "Holy ****!" I went for the anchors (STs have linked brakes that I rate highly in most circumstances) and felt the front wheel lock up. I eased off that and went hard on the rear and then re-engaged the front. Too late I ran out of options and impacted the rear of the RAV before getting the Honda to a stop. If I had reacted immediately I had seen the reverse lights come on, the extra second or two would have possibly given me a chance to go around him.

The Police laid careless driving charges against the RAV driver (it was his first day out in an automatic vehicle) and I now get to ride an FJR.

But back to the topic, I regularly practice stopping. I generally don't do it at speeds in excess of 80kmh. My drill is to do a few stops using the rear brake only to start, then a few with the front brake only and a few using both brakes in tandem. I also aim to be in first gear by the time I come to a dead stop. I then put a foot down, do a head check for other traffic and go immediately. I've been doing this for a few years now. An outcome of this is that I automatically downshift when stopping, so never have to fanny around while stationary looking for first gear.

not to throw darts or anything - but "really not your fault"?

while no one can predict the degree of embicility required to throw a car in reverse at speed (is that even possible?) - as you stated in your own comments, " If I had reacted immediately" ....

Why didn't you react immediately? Not looking? Not paying attention? Looking at the short skirt in the car next to you? fumbling with the tank bag?

sounds to me like some or all of the following: AND I AM NOT THROWING STONES - just trying to point out what could have been done differently ---

1. Riding faster than you could brake

2. Following too closely

3. no planned escape route

4. seeing a car with dealer sticker means NEW CAR - maybe not a new driver but someone in a car they aren't used to (I know.... that is pushing it a bit).

5. Not paying attention

6. not covering the brake lever

7. Not reacting immediately for some reason

8. not being aware (maybe you were and it was impossible to do) of surrounding traffic and availability (or lack of) an open lane (see #3).

At the risk of get my tail flamed until the end of time ---- there aren't too many accidents that couldn't have been prevented -

a. getting hit by a meteor might be one (unless you didn't heed this morning meteor report).

b. random drive by shootings in the other traffic direct having a stray bullet take you out

c. bus load of swedish towel girls/bikini team driving by with a sign inviting you by name to please stop and service the bus

d. I'm sure there are a few others.

but -- VERY GLAD TO HEAR you are ok and heading for an FJR

 

[fjrchooser]

The only way I've found to truly practice panic stops is by taking hallucinagenic drugs shortly before a ride. Even I don't know what's coming up then !

Ok, not really.

Point being ,slammin the binders in a controlled situation will give you a good idea of what the bike is capable of doing and how IT will react but doesn't train you to always take the proper action when truly caught unaware. Only road experience and a cool head can prepare you for that and even then...

 

[slapnpop]

Great Post......I never thought about practicing with my wife...but you're right. I'm sure braking with a passenger is a totally different experience.....and the last thing I want to see is my wife sailing over my head.....That would definately make for a bad day.

Might I suggest wearing a cup until you're used to the "weight transfer".. :blink: uke:

doing and how IT will react but doesn't train you to always take the proper action when truly caught unaware. Only road experience and a cool head can prepare you for that and even then...

A cool head is nessicary, but practice can help. You develop muscle memory for any physical task you perform regularly, and this links the brain to preform the processes without as much active concentration and input. You also become more familiar with the limits of traction, the feel just before/during/after loss of traction, and breaking under a variety of condions (assuming you practice on different surfaces). Practice in the rain if you've got caught out, and are wet already.

If nothing else, how could the practice hurt?

 

[fjrchooser]

"If nothing else, how could the practice hurt ? "

Agreed. And good points on the muscle memory, a definite step up towards avoiding panic driven brain freeze in knowing what to expect of yourself and your machine.

 

[chickey191]

Great Post......I never thought about practicing with my wife...but you're right. I'm sure braking with a passenger is a totally different experience.....and the last thing I want to see is my wife sailing over my head.....That would definately make for a bad day.

Might I suggest wearing a cup until you're used to the "weight transfer".. :blink: uke:

doing and how IT will react but doesn't train you to always take the proper action when truly caught unaware. Only road experience and a cool head can prepare you for that and even then...

A cool head is nessicary, but practice can help. You develop muscle memory for any physical task you perform regularly, and this links the brain to preform the processes without as much active concentration and input. You also become more familiar with the limits of traction, the feel just before/during/after loss of traction, and breaking under a variety of condions (assuming you practice on different surfaces). Practice in the rain if you've got caught out, and are wet already.

If nothing else, how could the practice hurt?

actually - practice could hurt a lot. If no one ever told you about "if you lock up the rear brake - you should leave it locked" - and you went out and practiced locking up the rear and you unlocked it in after sliding a bit... could definitely hurt.

Not saying that you shouldn't practice - but you should practice properly. a little research could save some road rash

 

[starcruiser(aka downn2)]

The only way I've found to truly practice panic stops is by taking hallucinagenic drugs shortly before a ride. Even I don't know what's coming up then !

I'm not into drugs....although I do enjoy eating a few mushrooms if I happen to be crusing thru East Texas early in the Morn,,also those cactus buttons are pretty tasty down in the Big Ben area........but DRUGS!!! FORGET IT! Not for me....

Oh, yea, if you fortunate enought to come across some srooms or buttoms, chase em with a few joints and a couple of shots of Tequila to keep your head on straight....

 

[madmike2]

not to throw darts or anything - but "really not your fault"?
while no one can predict the degree of embicility required to throw a car in reverse at speed (is that even possible?) - as you stated in your own comments, " If I had reacted immediately" ....

Why didn't you react immediately? Not looking? Not paying attention? Looking at the short skirt in the car next to you? fumbling with the tank bag?

sounds to me like some or all of the following: AND I AM NOT THROWING STONES - just trying to point out what could have been done differently ---

At the risk of get my tail flamed until the end of time ---- there aren't too many accidents that couldn't have been prevented -

I must mention that one of the most painful emotional experiences for me was the realization that there was MORE that "I" could have done to avoid my mishap. Even though there was someone in my lane coming around a corner...

1.) be prepared for the unexpected

2.) take riding classes to become more proficient

Let us say that I practice #1 and have experienced #2 (and plan to do so semi-regularly). Seriously, the best farkle I have bought for my FJR is the Streetmasters course. Not only did I "learn" technique and strive to apply it, but I had to take a looong look backward to see what I might have done in every situation for the past few years. Painful...but now I see! It's way to easy to blame the "other guy".

One point many folks miss in practicing braking, is to include their passenger in the drill. I practice emergency stops with my wife on back, so she knows what to expect under heavy hard braking. Of course, I warn her about it before I do. It has helped in many cases where I had to put the binders on hard when she is on back as now she knows how to react. It has taught her to keep her hands on or near the grab rails at all times.

Great Post......I never thought about practicing with my wife...but you're right. I'm sure braking with a passenger is a totally different experience.....and the last thing I want to see is my wife sailing over my head.....That would definately make for a bad day.

Yep, exactly what Highlander described in his post at the top of the thread. Practicing while 2-up, even on the way to a group ride so everything is "fresh". Some really good points by everyone.

 

[weekend rider]

I like what everyone had to offer about stopping. practice, parking lots, passengers no leaves. no oil

no gravel. no stones, just ideal conditions.

For me the most two important thing that is needed to know are

1- stoppping is a learned riding trait and you should be able to perfornm it with out even thinking about it , it should be ingrained in your ridding skills that no practice should be needed to perform an emergency stop for what ever reason.

2-This is the most important -how fast you process the informationform your eyes (visual) to your brain then after being processed there than to your hand and back to your brain this will determine your outcome

If for what ever reason it happens to be slow chances are the out come will not be good

Every one may disagree but the next time try reacting and see if the above onformation is correct.

I wonder why the state give seniors a mandatory driving test after a certain age? <_<

jus a different twist think about it :dribble:

weekend rider

 

[double_entendre]

I had to do a bit of a brake grab the other day on I-10. Everyone slammed on their brakes for no readily apparent reason and they did it while I was looking over my shoulder before I changed lanes. Slowed down fine, but found out that the front dive was enough that the mirrors showed nice blue sky as I was braking.

I'm very much in the habit of checking my mirrors when I'm braking just 'cause you never know what moron isn't paying attention (1). Indeed, my old car was totalled by a guy in a minivan who didn't notice that all of us had stopped. Creamed me doing about 45 & crushed the back of the car like a beer can.

Anyway, after that I adjusted my mirrors so that they show more street and less sky in normal circumstances and still show me what's behind me when I'm on the binders. Just a thought.

Bob

Huntington Beach, CA

Good news: I get to commute on the bike a lot now--about 50 miles each way.

Bad news: It's 99% freeway riding. Squaring off my tires, dammit!!! :dwarf:

(1) Yeah. Me in this case. **** off very much, ta.

 

[dfpextraordinaire]

I did my testing in my Rider's Skills Course in Oregon a few weeks ago and I have to tell you this, them brakes work real good! They asked us to get up to around 40 and hit it, man it stopped on a dime. there was a bit of a slip when the front grabbed but it did what it was designed to do, stop you quick and safely. I love these brakes and practice these quick stops consistantly and often so that i am used to the feel. Just grab ahold and let the brakes do what they are supposed to do, it's certainly impressive... way mo betta than anything else I have ever had the pleasure of riding...

ride safe and keep them peepers, peeped!!!

 

[Coyote]

Exactly! Don't "hammer" the brakes, but train yourself to "squeeze" the brakes, progressively and smoothly applying more pressure.

I didn't have the time to read this whole thread, but this one is a key point. This provides the time necessary to smoothly transfer the weight to the front wheel. Takes a fraction of a second longer, buts adds hugely to control. You don't want to surprise that front tire.

 

[Bearly Flying]

not to throw darts or anything - but "really not your fault"?
while no one can predict the degree of embicility required to throw a car in reverse at speed (is that even possible?) - as you stated in your own comments, " If I had reacted immediately" ....

Why didn't you react immediately? Not looking? Not paying attention? Looking at the short skirt in the car next to you? fumbling with the tank bag?

Come on Chicky, get ******* real here. When was the last time somebody went into reverse at 60 mph in front of you. Between scanning your mirrors, the ditches, the guy beside you, the cager coming up to the intersection in front of you, etc etc..... You think you would have recognized the danger any quicker????

 

[afterburn]

Not to burst anyones bubble, but you can NOT practise panic stops. Panic implies you are controlled by fear. Practise implies the opposite.

Now you can, and should, practise emergency braking. Everytime you practise, you move the invisible line between control and panic a bit further away, making life just that bit safer. Hopefully you will practise enough that when a situation arises you apply learned behavior, instead of going into panic mode.

If the situation does force you into panic mode, I hope you have ABS cause all your training will have gone overboard well before you even make a move towards any brakes and you just grab whatever is available.

 

[madmike2]

Not to burst anyones bubble, but you can NOT practise panic stops. Panic implies you are controlled by fear. Practise implies the opposite.

From reading all of the responses, one could infer that reasonable people responded as if the question posed meant emergency braking rather than "panic braking", if one would understand and ascribe to the thinking and measured steps suggested and the practice prescribed in the various posts.

In an absolutely literal sense, you are correct, sir. Should we now use your rigid adherence to definitions as a guideline whenever anyone responds to a question you might pose. Or would we be free to deduce what you might mean in spite of the words you may use to pose your query ?

Inquiring minds will want to be informed and prepared. :blink:

[SIZE=8pt]And, yes, I am a might "testy" this evening. So!?!?!? [/SIZE]

 

[Ari Rankum]

if you honestly believe that you should be braking with the rear only or mostly..... then you need to get yourself to a class where they can teach you in a controlled environment how to do this.

Best advice in this thread.

Well, a Sunday ride turned to custard when the driver of the said RAV4 that I was following managed to get his vehicle into reverse gear at about 100kmh in the overtaking lane along which I was following. My first indication that something may be awry was noting his reverse lights had come on. "Interesting," I thought.

That sucks.

I managed to save myself and a bike by noticing reverse lights once. I was behind a Ford Expedition in downtown traffic. As is often the case, this SUV driver was not a terribly adept driver, and she had some real problems accurately estimating the position of her vehicle in the lane. She overshot the stop line at a traffic light and didn't seem to realize this until a great number of people in the crosswalk were looking up over her hood at her and frowning. Because I had thought she was going to stop by the stop line, I had left room behind the SUV. After one too many stares, she puts the SUV in reverse and backs out of the crosswalk and stops. But the reverse lights stay on. Ah, an automatic, I says. So I start backing my motorcycle up some more - teeny step, teeny step, teeny step. I'm attracting some attention from people in other lanes - what the hell is he doing? Sure enough, light turns green and the SUV launches backwards right into the space where my bike and I had been moments before.

 

[zorkler]

4 things you need the bike , you ,a large empty area and i use my 14 year old daughter who is standing 100 feet away from me start out at 40 mph. Belive me you will have the skill down pat in no time . and i never hit her with the bike .

 

[Blueliner]

Not to burst anyones bubble, but you can NOT practise panic stops. Panic implies you are controlled by fear. Practise implies the opposite.

Thats true for me. no matter how much I practice, I never seem to have the same blood curdling scream that I wail in a real panic situation.