Prius is an environmental nightmare

[jestal]

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[jwilly]

I wish I had a copy of this article to hand to the lady on I-75 last night in her Prius!! Driving like a freakin idiot and flicking her cigarette butts out the window.

 

[C&C]

Jestal, it says the author is a Staff Writer; do you know for who? As you seem to be, I remain skeptical to some of the 'greenies' proclamations.

 

[Ignacio]

Friendly reminder. Feel free to talk technical talk about this, but the next political post closes this sucker down and may earn the poster a week off from posting.

Also added the attribution to University of Connecticut at jestal's request.

Carry on.

 

[twowheelnut]

I read that article a few days ago. Makes a lot of sense and something I've been saying all along. When considering these things, one has to consider the carbon 'footprint' - or the total impact of producing, maintaining and disposal of the car, its components, fuel(s) and residuals.

Of course, I'm striving to become fart-free to lower my 'footprint', but that damn broccoli is just so friggin' yummy!

https://www.carbonfootprint.com/

 

[vectervp1]

I read that article a few days ago. Makes a lot of sense and something I've been saying all along. When considering these things, one has to consider the carbon 'footprint' - or the total impact of producing, maintaining and disposal of the car, its components, fuel(s) and residuals.

Totally agree there. Unless you look at the total impact of Hybrid and electric vehicles, you're not getting the complete picture. Looking at the end product, a hybrid sounds great, but when you look at the 'cost' of producing the vehicle, it just doesn't seem that great.

 

[IndianaTom]

I'm curious what percentage of the nickel mined goes to prius batterys?

Nickel is used in many industrial and consumer products, including stainless steel, magnets, coinage, and special alloys. It is also used for plating and as a green tint in glass. Nickel is pre-eminently an alloy metal, and its chief use is in the nickel steels and nickel cast irons, of which there are innumerable varieties. It is also widely used for many other alloys, such as nickel brasses and bronzes, and alloys with copper, chromium, aluminum, lead, cobalt, silver, and gold.
Nickel consumption can be summarized as: nickel steels (60%), nickel-copper alloys and nickel silver (14%), malleable nickel, nickel clad and Inconel (9%), plating (6%), nickel cast irons (3%), heat and electric resistance alloys (3%), nickel brasses and bronzes (2%), others (3%).

click

Batteries aren't even listed.

If we're outlawing nickel, we better get used to rust and carrying more pennies.

 

[twowheelnut]

Batteries aren't even listed.
If we're outlawing nickel, we better get used to rust and carrying more pennies.

My bet is that they are lumped into the 'heat and electrical resistance' group. Still, your view is a narrow one on the overall impact of these cars. Battery production and reclamation will be a serious issue to deal with in the near term.

 

[IndianaTom]

Batteries aren't even listed.
If we're outlawing nickel, we better get used to rust and carrying more pennies.

My bet is that they are lumped into the 'heat and electrical resistance' group. Still, your view is a narrow one on the overall impact of these cars. Battery production and reclamation will be a serious issue to deal with in the near term.

It looks like the article took mining and environmental data from 30 years ago, but I'll bet most things produced 30 years ago had terrible environmental side effects.

land reclamation

another clicky

Here in south-central Indiana, one of the big 3 auto makers has plenty of PCB pollution in town. All manufacturing has side effects. Including manufacturing FJRs, and motor oil.

Results of the initial study in the summer and fall of 2001 found polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) above recommended cleanup levels in surface water, stream sediments, fish/crayfish and floodplain soils in areas along Bailey’s Branch and Pleasant Run creeks.

click

They make transmissions.

What can we do, the industrial revolution changed everything, mostly for the better, but occasionally not.

 

[Mike-H]

Just an FYI....the ride up to Sudbury now, especially on secondary (non expressway) roads is now very scenic....if your going to ride up there, make sure you check out Science North....it's worth a look....(for those lacking experience) you can pet a live beaver :derisive: , & porcupine (remember only stroke the porcupine one way ) or your hand(s) will be really sore when you try to ride afterward :cray: ....

 

[Bounce]

They can't be talking about the H1 since few people own it. However, of all the H models, it's the only one that could be reasonably assumed to last 300,000 miles. All the others are GMC chassis and power trains which won't go that distance without additional significant investments in repair and maintenance. That means the cost-per mile of ownership is substantially under reported for the Hummer (H2 or H3) which can be expected to last 100,000 miles without various repairs to motor and/or drive train -- longer with additional investment.

 

[boogahboogah]

FYI: My friends Honda Insight (2 seater hybrid) gets 50 MPG around town, but after 100k miles the ability of the batteries to hold a charge has been reduced about 60 percent. He still uses the Insight for back & forth to work & gets where he wants to go, but he takes his Corolla for long trips. Local Honda dealer will not replace the battery, has to be done by a special Honda factory technician, total for battery & technician, between 1600 & 1800 smackers.

 

[madmike2]

Local Honda dealer will not replace the battery, has to be done by a special Honda factory technician, total for battery & technician, between 1600 & 1800 smackers.

And WHAT do they intend to do with the depleted battery...place it in a landfill? Store it for 100 years and let that generation worry about it?

 

[IndianaTom]

And WHAT do they intend to do with the depleted battery...place it in a landfill? Store it for 100 years and let that generation worry about it?

Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

excellent! you know how many old beer cans you'd have haul in to get $200?

Battery toxicity is a concern, althoug today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards.

however...

While lead recycling is a mature industry, it's impossible to rescue every car battery from the dump. More than 40,000 metric tons of lead are lost to landfills every year. According to the federal Toxic Release Inventory, another 70,000 metric tons are released in the lead mining and manufacturing process.

click

 

[jestal]

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[Shane]

And to think I bought an Aveo for the wife just to avoid those damn car payments.

Who knew I'd get bragging rights on the Prius?

Shane

 

[Inlaw1]

All the others are GMC chassis and power trains which won't go that distance without additional significant investments in repair and maintenance.

Not sure what you consider significant cost. I've got a 77 Chev stepside with 375K on it. Granted, it's on it's second motor and third transmission, but it's 30 years of for Christ sake! It's still cheaper than a new one and not what I would consider a significant cost.

The suspension / frame / body are all still all there without any significant repairs. Granted, the truck has been garage kept 90% of it's life. But it's been used for daily transportation the last 20 years along with being a work horse pulling a race / show car around the state and across country for part of it's life.

The newer trucks with the improvements in build quality can go much further than that 77 if properly taken care of.

 

[DucatiSSsp]

How many batteries does a prius use and what will it cost to replace? Life Expectancy?

Inquiring mind would like to know. :glasses:

 

[IndianaTom]

How many batteries does a prius use and what will it cost to replace? Life Expectancy?Inquiring mind would like to know. :glasses:

I've seen several places

A quick Google search for: PRIUS BATTERY REPLACEMENT shows that the price is between $2,000 and $3,000, but I'd only seen evidence of replacing on 2 occasions, both were around 300,000 miles. It's claimed that the software babies the charge and discharge rate of the batteries so that they should last the design live of the car. But it being a Toyota, who knows how long that is.

Total battery weight is only 110 pounds and it's only the size of 6 loaves of bread.