Prius is an environmental nightmare

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We run a dozen Priusi in the fleet, ranging from first year issue (03 I believe) to brand new. Being a University, we must of course show the world how advanced we are environmentally, so it's a given we will have the latest and greatest when it comes to PC machinery. Anyway, a synopsis........

1) Overall, they have been spectacularly reliable, with nary a hard failure amongst them.

2) Overall, they are as spectacularly boring as 4 wheel transportation can get. Their only redeeming quality is the TV in the middle of the dash, on which you can watch an entire episode of the Jetsons on the 0-60 acceleration test. The locating of all the ancillary controls (HVAC, radio/cd, battery monitoring, etc) on this centralized touch screen has been a direct factor in several accidents.

3) On one, a 2004, average mileage has worked out to 74 mpg. Yes, 74 mpg. Mind you, this car is used exclusively in town, around campus mostly, and so takes max advantage of the electric aspects of the Hybrid system. But still, 74 mpg. Ran the figures 4 times. 74 FUCKING MPG. Keep in mind we have a climate of extremes-whenever heat or A/C is called for, the engine must run.

4) As of yet, no indication of battery weakening, though our highest mileage car to date had aprox 53,000 miles. We don't anticipate having any of them beyond the 65-75 thou mark. We did have a 12 volt starting battery weaken, which was replaced at a cost of $135 (very unique battery in these, of course). The core was processed normally, with no known loss of life nor mines stripped nor EPA Superfund access required. I expect this will be the battery consumers will be most often concerned with.

5) I personally hate 'em, but there are many here who are Mother the Earths biggest friends, and will rent nothing but (all the Priui here are in our rental fleet). Others will call a cab rather than take one if it's all thats available. So not all are enthralled, but enough could give a shit either way, so as a result we consider them a fairly successful addition to the fleet.

Overall, I think they are, for most people, an excellent city car. Small footprint bodes well for parking, traffic, and stopping for fuel. Toyota reliability (and yes, for most of their products the legend still applies) bodes well for trouble free operation. Brakes last 50,000 plus. Oil change intervals can be as long as a year (if actual motor ops are taken into account, they have maint required lamps). They have bizarre enough interiors and features so as to keep the passengers entertained for hours on end, great for sitting in traffic. While other manufacturers have jumped on the Hybrid wagon, few have accomplished what Toy has with there initial entry-a seamless entry of a mega fuel efficient (potentially) engineering exercise that the common man can see himself owning. And many have. We have no 2006's, Toy couldn't build them fast enough to keep dealers supplied, so they suspended Fleet sales for a time till capacity built up to demand. Don't think for a second that a few other manufacturers wish they had that problem.

 
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The hard thing to understand about hybrids and the Prius in particular is why people are so accepting of it.
The simple answer is education. I doubt many have the whole picture of information about the production of hybrids. Which is why this thread has value. More information is always a good thing. Many points brought out in this thread were things I did not know. It changes the opinion I have of hybrids.

And kudos to the masses for keeping this thread on track.

 
This is not an attempt to hijack, but goes along the same lines.

It is in regard to energy efficient light bulbs known as compact fluorescents. They are great at conserving energy, but there is a big problem with them. The contain Mercury....

Mercury = BAD.... Probably worse than CO2 for the environment. 1 lightbult doesn't have much mercury vapor in it, but replace your whole house maybe 15-20 bulbs???? Multiply that by several hundred-thousand households....

Further, most people don't read the label that you DO NOT throw them away in your regular garbage. Even if you are aware that you should dispose of them properly, there aren't recycling and disposal programs everywhre in the U.S.

Further emphasis should be placed on Education about these products and their effects.

Similar issues with cars that run on bio-deisel. Corn based fuel is great, but think about how much damn corn you'd have to grow. A very large percentage of corn consumption goes to cattle and livestock. Society would have to give up eating meats, A LOT, and lets face it, while I try to be as environmentally friendly as possible.... I like steak :wubsmiley:

 
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Corn based fuel is great, but think about how much damn corn you'd have to grow. A very large percentage of corn consumption goes to cattle and livestock. Society would have to give up eating meats, A LOT, and lets face it, while I try to be as environmentally friendly as possible.... I like steak :wubsmiley:
I personally believe that this is quite a stretch... <_<

 
Corn based fuel is great, but think about how much damn corn you'd have to grow. A very large percentage of corn consumption goes to cattle and livestock. Society would have to give up eating meats, A LOT, and lets face it, while I try to be as environmentally friendly as possible.... I like steak :wubsmiley:
I personally believe that this is quite a stretch... <_<
O.k. give up a lot, isn't exctly proper english. Should have said drastically reduce consumption.

Now back that prius, gawd its ugly!!! :D

 
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Toyota....america's car company :beee: (at least they wan't to be)....

 
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Wasn't there an issue at one time about the reluctance of rescue people to exposing themselves to the risks of wrecked hybrids....electrical shocks and battery acids? Statistically, there are darn few of these cars on the road so it is obviously not a huge concern, but the issue would weigh heavily on my mind if I drove one of them.

 
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There's no doubt that the sales of the prius have dropped off. The biggest US market share of buyers being in CA. Consumers are realising that there are lots of great fuel efficient alternatives than the almost $30K premium for the slow, butt face ugly econobox known as the prius. You have to drive this thing into the ground and get buried in it to get a return on investment. But in the meantime you can scawl at your neighbour with a big bad mean gas guzzling SUV or truck. :rolleyes:

The decline in CA is probably attributed to the now maxed out HOV single occupant driver vehicle licence that was available to certain vehicles with a high EPA fuel rating. The state issued 85K of such licences which have now all been scarfed up. This licence in SoCal has not been received well in the HOV lane, as SOV drivers snail pace along at 50mph while diligently watching the instant fuel readout for maximum mpg. The tax deduction that also used to be a factor for hybrids has been scaled back by the government and is no longer worth it as an offset in taxes.

Toyota is definitely cashing in on the feel good about the environment factor and big bad oil, but continues it's premium pricing even though the technology is more than paid for with sales and technology licencing to several other car manufacturers. Instead of lowering it's cost to the real mass world market of consumers who make up the small car market and do not have the $$'s to afford one, why not make a real honest push to helping out the environment if that is their intent? If toyota really gave a rats ass about the environment, why are they making so many crappy gas mileage trucks and SUV's? Hmm, sounds like any other business making $$ to me.

The other interesting thing that I've noticed, is the big mileage gaps between the same vehicle offerings in Europe and North America. The same exact small cars in the EU offer real world figures of around 10 or more MPG more than its NA counterpart. I wonder why that is? I guess technology takes a little while to swim across the pond? :glare:

 
Similar issues with cars that run on bio-deisel. Corn based fuel is great, but think about how much damn corn you'd have to grow. A very large percentage of corn consumption goes to cattle and livestock. Society would have to give up eating meats, A LOT, and lets face it, while I try to be as environmentally friendly as possible.... I like steak :wubsmiley:
Take a peek at what Brazil is doing for fuel. They still eat plenty of steak, too. ;)

Hybrids are merely a marketing stopgap while we wait for the next real big thing. Nissan just dipped their toe into the hybrid waters with their Altima, using a detuned version of their corporate 4 banger and an electric motor (the same system as in Prius) licensed from Toyota. Car and Driver's short take on the car realized a combined MPG of only 24. The last standard Altima they tested got 26, IIR the article correctly. So much for Hybrids.

Further, and I've said this before, hybrids are 'feel good' cars. From the mfg's standpoint, it's buys them street cred with the quasi-greenies. From the quasi-greenie standpoint it helps to reinforce the 'hey, lookit me, I'm saving the world' they seem to relish so.

Thanks, but I'll keep my 30 MPG (combined) Accord parked in my garage while I ride my 40 MPG FJR or my 60 MPG Wabs.

 
I just listened to an Al Gore (he is the smartest person on the planet behind only Bill Clinton)speech and global warming is at a crisis point. We will all be DEAD soon if we don't act right now. Coastal cities will be under 200ft of water next year. Hurricanes will be tearing apart everything from the equator to the Tropics. Being the lemming I am I immediately went out and took action. I traded in my 2001 Dodge Ram Quadcab and traded it in on a brand spanking new 2006 Hemi-Powered Dodge RAM Quadcab. It gets 42% better mileage than my '01 and has 80 more HP. :yahoo: Hurray for John the environmentalist!!!!! :yahoo: That MDS sure saves you gas!!!

 
While Japan makes many fine autos, I feel Detroit gets a bad rap. My 96 f150 has 140,000 and has had only routine repairs along the way. When we bought mama a new small SUV, we bought an Escape. Bigger and more powerful than the RAV 4 and 10K less than a Highlander. Currently 40,000 miles with no problems. When I was in Law Enforcement, we had big American sedans, which we ran hard for 100K then auctioned. I still see some of the old cruisers from the late 80's, they must have at least 500k on them. Now if Ford can only stay alive to make parts for us.

 
Rad.....you have the most real world exposure to the Prius that I have encountered for sure. Have you been involved with any of the Prius recalls to date? Any experience with the mystery stalls they experienced? I have not gathered such a glowing reaction to their reliability reading on the internet and from our (limited) fleet evaluation.

We had a run of 05's, IIRC, that had a recall for a ECM reflash,or replacement, don't remember for sure. Wasn't a biggie, I know that. But yes, they've been very good for us, have a dozen now, have had about 25 all told, some are gone due to miles/time of course, as we run a fairly low mile fleet, 4 years and 65 thou is about max. The used ones have sold instantly, for about 15-20 % less than new, if you can believe that. Combined with how cheap we get them, almost 0 repairs, and the mpg, the cost per mile is incredibly low for us. As far as internet reaction to them, people looking here would garner that FJR's are junk, they all tick, require bizarre lubricant blends :p , and need upgraded suspension and lighting hours after purchase. I would imagine there's some Prius fanboy forums out there with members that believe it's the transportation version of the second coming. But, after all, people bought all the Yugos that could be pushed off the boat ramps, all the Gremlins that Levis could upholster, and all the Pintos and Vegas that Detroit could force through their collective sphincters, so who the **** knows. :unsure:

 
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The hard thing to understand about hybrids and the Prius in particular is why people are so accepting of it.
The simple answer is education. I doubt many have the whole picture of information about the production of hybrids. Which is why this thread has value. More information is always a good thing. Many points brought out in this thread were things I did not know. It changes the opinion I have of hybrids.

And kudos to the masses for keeping this thread on track.
+1

 
European versions of cars sold here have more engine options available than U.S. versions -- mostly all smaller and, often, a couple diesel options. Also, the automatic transmission is generally thought of by many European drivers as an "American" thing.

Honda once offered the CRX "HF" (high fuel) that was: small, light, had hollow shafts in the engine, ran hard skinny tires, and got extremely good gas mileage (in the Prius range). I knew a guy who delivered 'meals-on-wheels' with one and said he made money doing it! Of course, they weren't popular and faded away.

From a friend, about a mutual acquaintence who was getting rid of his big vehicle for a smaller, more economical one: "He's gonna have economy no matter what it costs him!" B)

 
They showed the cost of a Hummer, Prius and Aveo per mile, but I wonder what it costs per mile for an FJR?

 
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3-23-07-prius-hummer.jpg
 
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