Project Bike - CCT Fail - Engine Woes

[FJR-AZbrad]

Hello Forum - New Guy Here

Well, as the title indicates, I have my hands full.

So - I got the bike for a song (2007 ABS CA) and I knew the top end was toast. ~80K on the bike.

A bit of looking and I found an ebay motor from a firm down in FL. 2006 Gen II 56K miles on the odometer. Video has it running (on a lift on the center stand) cool. Dude jumps on and goes through all the gears (up & down) very cool. Price & shipping are good. Nice.

Motor shows up in a nice crate. It's clean and has the upper coolant bar in a bag with the bolts. All good.

I give the exterior the once-over and decide, before I tear out the bad motor I'd better check the valve clearances. Guess what? All are in tolerance! Exhaust are getting close but still good.

This is sweet.

OK - long weekend and the old motor is out and the 56K motor is in. Fluids, oil, Charged battery, no leaks. Let's try the starter. Crank / crank 5 seconds and she fires right up!!

I'm doing all of this on the center stand. Just like the video. Let it warm up a bit. Verified the fan kicks on and off. I'm liking this. Look everything over and no leaks.

I run it through all the gears (up and down) shifting with the palm of my hand, and it seems really smooth. Chubby in progress...

The next weekend is a camping weekend - no FJR work.

Back to it the following weekend. I'm smiling and starting my new baby when friends drop by. Took a video to mock the PO at work... So I get all the plastic back on, mount the saddlebags, shine it up some more and out the garage I go.

Wow - nice running motor. I didn't even balance the throttle bodies.

1st gear (heading down to the end of the block)

2nd gear - hmmm what's that? Maybe a bit of a miss or the U-joint / final drive seating in.

3rd gear - nice.

4th & 5th are just to make sure the shift is good, because I'm at the end of the block.

Downshift through the gears - fine.

Turn around back to the house.

1st - still nice.

2nd - I add a bit more throttle than before - crunch - go - crunch - go - crunch ---- ****

3rd - back to the driveway.

In the garage. Head hung low.

Back to the FJR Forum.

Yikes - 2nd gear issues on lots of bikes. Only under loaded conditions - Figures.

Fast forward to this weekend. I decide to take the gear set from the dead motor.

Head is off. Everything else off. Case now split. A quick visual on the gears/dogs and they look good.

Sorry for the long back story.

My question - Does anyone have any gotchya's in reference to exchanging the whole set into the other motor? The casting number on the 2006 motor is only 669 from the casting on the 2007.

 

[RossKean]

Don't think there are any issues. Seems to me that there is an updated (more robust??) part available for the gears or gear dogs. Can't remember but you might look into it. It would add some time to your restoration...

 

[NMRoadRunner]

When you said the original motor top end was "toast" was it really, or did you assume that based on the mileage of 80K? The reason I ask is that would be a real stretch of an assumption for a motor like the FJR's. There are bikes out there with over 200,000 miles on them, and the trannys are as rock solid as well. could just be a shifter/gear dog issue, but since you have it opened on your work bench, only you will know for sure. I've 167,000 on mine and haven't had any issues at all.

 

[Geezer]

So, it seems that you started with an engine that had a CCT failure that damaged the valves and now an engine with a damaged second gear mechanism. Both of these issues have been seen before, but are not common. I hope that means all of your bad luck has now been used up.

Just to be safe, I suggest you replace the CCT on the replacement top end with a fresh new one.

Good luck from here on.

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Don't think there are any issues. Seems to me that there is an updated (more robust??) part available for the gears or gear dogs. Can't remember but you might look into it. It would add some time to your restoration...

Thanks RossKean - Just wondering if it would be best to take the shift fork rods/springs and shift drum because they all have been worn together as a team. I guess more will be revealed when I split the other case. Although the idea of more dogs on the newer generation gears does sound appealing, I do have a working set right in front of me.

BZ

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

When you said the original motor top end was "toast" was it really, or did you assume that based on the mileage of 80K? The reason I ask is that would be a real stretch of an assumption for a motor like the FJR's. There are bikes out there with over 200,000 miles on them, and the trannys are as rock solid as well. could just be a shifter/gear dog issue, but since you have it opened on your work bench, only you will know for sure. I've 167,000 on mine and haven't had any issues at all.

Thanks NM R-R - Nope no assumption there. Even before the tear-down I could see in the exhaust ports that many valves were bent.

(insert picture here - after I have enough posts I assume)

There's not one valve left that sits flush in the seat.

I sure would like to see this FJR get back on the road to go another 100K.

BZ

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

So, it seems that you started with an engine that had a CCT failure that damaged the valves and now an engine with a damaged second gear mechanism. Both of these issues have been seen before, but are not common. I hope that means all of your bad luck has now been used up.
Just to be safe, I suggest you replace the CCT on the replacement top end with a fresh new one.

Good luck from here on.

Thanks Geezer - A shame that a $5 spring can fail in a CCT and cause BIG$$$ to recover.

I sure hope lightning won't strike a third time on this FJR.

Before installing the 56K motor I did put a nice new green dot CCT in place.

BZ

 

[audiowize]

Why not put a new head on your motor? Are the pistons OK?

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Why not put a new head on your motor? Are the pistons OK?

I thought about that Audiowize, but my personal feelings on that are: 'never trust a piston that's made contact with a valve'. Even the smallest micro-cracks over time will become bigger cracks, then it might let go and I'd be worse off than before. So - would I rather do pistons/rings and all that or fix the 2nd gear issue? I chose the gears this time. I hope it's the right choice.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Since you're splitting cases, consider updating the second gear assembly to the revised ('08 and up) parts. It'll cost a few $$$, but you'll end up with a sound engine and transmission good for many thousands of miles.

Good luck!

--G

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Thanks escapefjrtist - I wish I could say that money is no object. The amazing part is that the 'old motor' gear set looks like it only has 10K miles on them (80K in truth). A true testament to the quality of the parts.

Something VERY cringe-worthy must have happened to round-off dogs on the other 2nd gear.

BZ

 

[Streethawk]

Good Luck with the project Brad. I just noticed you've did your homework. A lot of good advice and help will be had from the folks here!

 

[dcarver]

Dang and I thought I had bad luck. Good thoughts your way..

Found a link from rpGoatBoy when he split his cases.

 

[escapefjrtist]

<snip> Something VERY cringe-worthy must have happened to round-off dogs on the other 2nd gear.

You'd be surprised how little abuse it takes Brad. Good luck with the repair...lots of good information here to assist with the teardown.

--G

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Thanks Streethawk - your post (along with others) has shown that it's not that terrible to dig in and get stuff fixed.

Not much going to happen this week. Waiting on parts and a TDY to Offutt next week.

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Dang and I thought I had bad luck. Good thoughts your way..
Found a link from rpGoatBoy when he split his cases.

Thanks dcarver - I hope I have enough surface area to explode both motors at once.

I think I went through rpGoatBoy thread. lots of great stuff.

BZ

 

[FJR-AZbrad]

Escapefjrtist - thanks for pushing some karma my way. Even though I didn't cause any of these motor/trans issues, I sure hope to learn from everyone's wisdom.

Now that both motors are out, it's roll-up the sleeves time.

I ride like an old man anyway - nothing too fancy.

BZ

 

[08FJR4ME]

I am wondering would it possible to make it a six speed if you wanted to?

Curious if it could be done.

Dave

 

[rPGoatBoy]

EscapeFJR, unfortunately the two cogs that make 2nd gear in the 5 speed FJR haven't changed between 2001 and 2015 IIRC. The revised gear sets were on the input shaft, not the counter shaft. The 2006 and 2007 FJRs are damn near identical, except for color and maybe one other detail.