Pulled over by CSI

[Eric L]

He thought you were hot.

 

[Scythian]

My first reply was because, over on https://forums.officer.com/ , I see cops commenting a lot about non-cops decking their vehicles out with emergency lights and some going so far as playing cop.

Without exception it really pisses them off and they caution others about stopping in remote locations for questionable vehicles/officers.

The hard part is if you don't stop for the real officer that's as described above. So what do you do? If you're driving, call 911 and explain what's happening and your concern about the unmarked car trying to pull you over. On a bike it's tougher. If you're in a populated area, indicate that you're pulling over but do it in a well-lit area with lots of people around (preferably a police station). That does 2 things, it makes the stop safer for the officer and you as it gets him/her out of the traffic and you where there's a higher chance of help if it is one of those fake cops.

The remote areas are another thing. Since there's nothing nearby to go to, you're stuck. The trade off is that there's also less risk of it being anything other than an officer if you're remote enough, since sensible people (leaving out endurance riders and non-cops) wouldn't want be out there much more than the general population.

But the forum is rife with conflicting responses. In a thread about recent assaults by pretend cops, they'll give the advice about finding a safer place to stop. In a thread about failing to stop for an unmarked car, they'll bag on the driver/rider for not stopping right away.

That's a pretty good answer Bounce. Just remember that a lot of the cops that are active in "officer" forums are bordering on not being right in the head. Just like this forum, there are a lot of tools saying things that are either blatently stupid and wrong, or just misconstrued. For most of us, being a cop is a job. For some, being a cop is their entire life. Those guys concern me. I say this with a grain of salt, because I worked internet crimes for a few years and cringed everytime I got a case involving some guy that was a cop or claimed to be a cop. This is still the internet.

That being said, people buying lights and running around acting like cops does happen. It does not happen with much frequency. We had a guy in Albuquerque doing it on a large scale just a while back, and he was caught. Other than him, its pretty in-frequent. What does happen is someone will break into a cop car and take a raid vest or jacket and then that guy and his buddys will crash a drug dealer's house pretending to be cops and steal money and drugs. But...People taking the time and money to equip cars with lights just to pull people over...There's a lot of risk involved in that.

So...The CSI guy was totally within his rights to pull Synthian over. Just because we get moved from a division like patrol to something like CSI does not mean we are not still cops. A lot of our SWAT guys are homicide/violent crimes detectives. I have been off patrol for 6 years and I still stop lots of people with my unmarked car. I issue lots of citations too. As far as the "certified" speedo...Yup. Every manufacturer that makes a "police vehicle" installs a "certified speedometer." What that means is the speedo is accurate to within 2mph (+/- 2mph). Unlike our FJRs and your Honda accords that are a little optomistic. We verify our speedo readings with radar and we only use OEM sized tires, so there is no reason for them to lose calibration. IF we end up having a tranny replaced or something like that, we have to send the car off for re-calibration.

As ChecksWrecks said...Judges love "pace" citations. I have yet to find a court that does not allow our speedometer reading as perfect evidence of speeding.

So...Who makes police cars? Well, Ford makes the CrownVictoria and the Expedition and the Explorer for police duty. I know we have some Fusions with lights running around, but I donno if those are "police packages" or just govenment cars equipped with lights. Equipping a non-police package car with police lights voids the warranty, so I donno if they did that or not.

Dodge makes the Charger, and Chevy makes the Impala and the Tahoe. For the most part, most cops with the ability to pull someone over will be driving one of these cars: CrownVic, Expedition, Explorer, Charger, Impala, or Tahoe, and depending on what state you are in, they may have an obvious "Government" plate.

As far as stopping when you see lights...Here is the deal in NM: Statute says that when a person sees red flashing lights behind them, they will pull to the right and stop. Immediately. We cite for people that don't do that. However, usually that is people that just refuse to move for ambulances, or are purposely trying to be difficult, and most times, it is from a marked unit anwyay. But tell me this...If a cop car comes up from behind you with lights on, how do you know if it is marked or unmarked? All you can see is the hood, and those are very seldom marked. So...We use a degree of what is resonable.

The other day, I pulled a lady over for blowing through a red light in early morning traffic. I have an unmarked Impala and know that the interior lights make some people nervous. So...I waited until after she got on the freeway and turned on my lights so she wouldn't pull over on an on-ramp. She maintained speed, but did not accelerate. She didn't stop for a while. I hit her with the siren a few times and eventually she pulled over. I was wearing "civilian" clothes which consisted of tan BDU pants and a black department polo that showed my badge. I also had my metal badge showing. All I have to be wearing is my badge, and driving an "authorized police vehicle." The tan pants and black polo are division uniforms and are authorized.

When I approached her car, she would not roll the window down and told me she was on the phone with 911. Since I had called out the stop, they verified to her that I was actually a cop. I even showed her my comssion card...The lady ended up getting a warning. She had her head up her butt and didn't even know she had run a light, so she didn't know why I was stopping her. When she saw me, she called 911 and verified I was genuine. What she did not do was speed up, start driving erratically, or do anything stupid.

Those of us driving unmarked cars with interior lights know some people are genuinly concerned but some will not stop just to be difficult. The actions taken by those people are distinctly different. So...My advice? If you are not sure, activate your emergency flashers and slow down a little. Get on the phone and see if 911 knows anything about you being stopped. Even if it is real, they may not, because depending on the agency, you may have the wrong center. Here, if you call 911 wihtin a 10 mile radius of Albuquerque, you will get Albuquerque Police, but it may be Airport Police, Sheriff's Department, State Police, UNM Police or someone else pulling you over. The county lines north and south of Albuquerque are within a couple miles of the city limits and it could be tribal police, or another county all together.

So...Find a decent spot and stop. Let 911 know where you are. Keep your windows rolled up and watch how the officer approaches. Once at the window, ask the officer for a badge and commission card. If they get pissed off or refuse, leave. A real cop will understand and show you his information. DO NOT drive off just because they are in civilian clothes. I have stopped a few people just to tell them something was wrong with their car, and a few times, I have been in jeans and a shirt. Most guys making stops will be wearing a vest though...I always have mine. I also always have a badge visible.

If you're on a bike, just keep your feet on the ground and your hands on the bars. If the guy isn't really a cop, you can accelerate out of there faster than he can chase you.

For the record, Symian left some important things out of his traffic stop story. I25 just north of Tramway is a cluster. They are still doing some sporatic construction and just widened the freeway to three lanes. The speed limit is only 70 and then drops to 65 right about Tramway. There is a lot of traffic, and 85 in that area is unreasonable. It is not out in the middle of nowhere, it is right at the entrance to Albuquerque, and there are lots of dummies and lots of traffic. When I stop people for going 85 through there, they get citations.

I passed the unmarked SUV at just above 70 in the 70 mph zone. I saw in my rearview mirror that he immediately pulled out behind me and accelerated. I didn't like that at all, so I goosed it to pass a car in the middle lane and pulled into the middle lane, slowing to 70, to let him by.

I then discovered after he pulled me over that he jumped in back of me to "pace" me with his certified speedo before he pulled me over.

Stupid me for trying to get out of his way quickly.

Honestly, I wouldn't have goosed it that hard if I hadn't seen him getting big all of a sudden in my rearview mirror to "pace" me I found out.... I slowed and pulled into the middle lane, he pulled in in back of me and hit is lights.

85mph is unreasonable there, but when someone jumps in back of you and accelerates at you, you'll go whatever speed you need to to get safely out of his way into the right lane.

I was very polite and so was he.

 

[Scythian]

I had an APD motor cop kinda do the same to me:

I saw a triple-headlight kinda bike coming up on my rear, fast, about 0500 on I-40 E bound at Carlisle. No other traffic. I was doing 65, the speed limit.

I signaled and moved into the right lane, and he did too, still coming up fast, but he didn't signal. I though WTF and twisted the "go away" handle in my right hand hard. He then moved into the left lane and I slowed down.

After I had slowed down, the APD motor-cop gave me a palm-down "go slower" motion and I thought "****, I only yanked the throttle 'cuz of you...."

I can ***** about Albuquerque and New Mexico using traffic enforcement, and red-light cameras, as a revenue-generating scheme, but I've only ever gotten 1 ticket on my motorcycle in 6 years; every interaction with every State or Local cop was courteous, kind and respectful.

 

[HotRodZilla]

I passed the unmarked SUV at just above 70 in the 70 mph zone. I saw in my rearview mirror that he immediately pulled out behind me and accelerated. I didn't like that at all, so I goosed it to pass a car in the middle lane and pulled into the middle lane, slowing to 70, to let him by.

I then discovered after he pulled me over that he jumped in back of me to "pace" me with his certified speedo before he pulled me over.

Stupid me for trying to get out of his way quickly.

Honestly, I wouldn't have goosed it that hard if I hadn't seen him getting big all of a sudden in my rearview mirror to "pace" me I found out.... I slowed and pulled into the middle lane, he pulled in in back of me and hit is lights.

85mph is unreasonable there, but when someone jumps in back of you and accelerates at you, you'll go whatever speed you need to to get safely out of his way into the right lane.

I was very polite and so was he.

I wasn't saying anything was untrue about your story, just that you forgot a couple things. At the time you posted, I don't think the stuff you forgot was important. I also don't think you were bitching about being stopped. I thought you were laughing that you got pulled over by a guy with CSI all over his shirt.

What I mentioned about that area became important when posts came up about how fast freeway speeds are and I'm guessing how cops shouldn't bug people for driving 85. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but whatever.

I'm wondering if that guy was pulling out to pace you or if he was just pulling out and it looked like he was zooming up. Most of us try to pace from a little ways back, kind of like a guy using you for a rabbit will do. That way we don't cause them to drive faster to "get away" from a crazy person and they don't change what they are doing. Turns out the guy that stopped you is a buddy of Patch308's and works close with a really good friend of mine. It's a small community around here.

The APD bike guy...I can't speak for them.

 

[k7lvo]

Haha...Ok, I'll back down a hair. But in all fairness to me, 1980 is like a bazillion years ago. I don't even know any cops that old. I didn't graduate highschool until 1990, and crappy 1980's American cars have very little to do with anything from the last 20 years.

That's entirely fair. Just a little Generation Gap. <_<

So...On the baloney call, believe it or not, that's what ******* cops talk about during 5 weeks of stuff related to determining speed. It probably started with what RADAR units we were using and the new (back then) leads that Kustom was putting out to connect the RADAR unit to the cars speedometer module. Donno if you have seen those, but they are cool. If there is too much of a difference between the car's indicated speed and the RADARs measured speed, it wont display a target speed.
That reduces some of the inherent operator error, like picking up the back of a semi instead of the road. Donno when you left, but the newer same-lane units eliminated a lot of the shadowing or ghosting so many guys complained about years ago.

When I was working on them, all of the radars were portable. The only connection to the car was power. And before Ka band, they were lucky to be same-ROAD units.

And yes, we still use audible dopplar. Audible is/has been part of the tracking history since before me. Display has to match speed estimate and audible has to match display. Donno how they'd automate that, but I'm sure someday...

Yeah, how often have we said THAT?

Im not trying to be arrogant or be an ***, I'm just a grumpy ******* lately due to a sudden influx of too many people that have been watching CSI, so for that I apologize. Court cases from 8 and 9 years ago have been popping up and attorneys are losing their minds.

Thanks for the explanation. Apology accepted!

Like you, I haven't lost a case yet based on my testimony, but jurys are funny things and sometimes they look for reasons. Mostly my stuff gets stipulated to because of the pre-trials, but they look for other reasons to boot a case.

Most of the time the traffic cases were trial by judge up here.

So...20 citations a day was from when I was assigned to Traffic and unless there was a good crash, all I had to do was write tickets. Where I worked, a lot of cars were good for 2-3 cites each...And I was working 10-15 hours a day. It was fun, paid good, and I didn't have kids, so I wrote lots of tickets, made lots of arrests and spent lots of time in court. It was still pretty easy to change a flat or two. Even though I used some stationary and some laser, I prefer moving RADAR, so I didn't issue "unfair" or BS cites.

15 hours? So, that's more like 10 cites/"day"... :lol: and multiple violations...

FWIW, I have never seen anyone use an actual stopwatch. Kustom Golden Eagles sport a stopwatch mode that takes all the manual labor out of it. Pick a measured distance, enter that into the unit and hit the button when the car enters and exits. Instant speed with no radar signal.

Yeah, they probably use something like that in the planes now, too. But watching that trooper handle those watches while he flew the plane - he had a tray with indentations to set the watches in - was like watching someone do sign language. It was almost choreographed. (sp?)

So...Obviously things change over time and in the last 16 years, I have never seen one of our speedos be off. Not even after a tire change.

Well, when we cross paths one of these days, how about letting a 1970 graduate buy a 1990 graduate his beverage of choice?

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, when we cross paths one of these days, how about letting a 1970 graduate buy a 1990 graduate his beverage of choice?

I'd be happy to, but I'll probably have to get a note from my mother.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

FWIW, I have never seen anyone use an actual stopwatch. Kustom Golden Eagles sport a stopwatch mode that takes all the manual labor out of it. Pick a measured distance, enter that into the unit and hit the button when the car enters and exits. Instant speed with no radar signal.

Isn't that how VASCAR works?

(a little story...)

I was once speeding aross US 2, at night, in N. WI in a Datsun Z-car; protected by an (old-style, big case) Escort RD. When, there appeared a car behind me followed by alternating reds & blues behind the grill. When the officer approached my window I was staring up at the visor (where the, silent, Escort hung). He said, "What kind of detector are you running?" I answered, "aaaEscort..." He said, "Yea, they're good -- but, I was using VASCAR." "You wanna come back to the car and see how it works?"

He then let me pay the fine with a credit card... :huh:

 

[HotRodZilla]

FWIW, I have never seen anyone use an actual stopwatch. Kustom Golden Eagles sport a stopwatch mode that takes all the manual labor out of it. Pick a measured distance, enter that into the unit and hit the button when the car enters and exits. Instant speed with no radar signal.

Isn't that how VASCAR works?

(a little story...)

I was once speeding aross US 2, at night, in N. WI in a Datsun Z-car; protected by an (old-style, big case) Escort RD. When, there appeared a car behind me followed by alternating reds & blues behind the grill. When the officer approached my window I was staring up at the visor (where the, silent, Escort hung). He said, "What kind of detector are you running?" I answered, "aaaEscort..." He said, "Yea, they're good -- but, I was using VASCAR." "You wanna come back to the car and see how it works?"

He then let me pay the fine with a credit card... :huh:

Haha...That's exactly what it is. Apparently back in the old days, some of those guys could do math and used an actual stop-watch, so some units refer to the timing function as "stopwatch mode." I've had a total of 3 radar detectors smashed on the side of the road while issuing citations.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Isn't that how VASCAR works?

Haha...That's exactly what it is.

As it relates to the OP's incident:

...even though I slowed and pulled into the center lane when he shot out to "pace" me.

From Wikipedia:

"VASCAR was invented by Arthur Marshall...in 1966[1]. He was inspired to create the device after watching a police car...trying to pace a speeder"

Seems...? Some use of technology (even simple technology) might've lessened the in-traffic interactions of the incident?

 

[RadioHowie]

Well, when we cross paths one of these days, how about letting a 1970 graduate buy a 1990 graduate his beverage of choice?

I'd be happy to, but I'll probably have to get a note from my mother.

Glad to see you two kiss and make up.

YUCK!!!

 

[beemerdons]

Well, when we cross paths one of these days, how about letting a 1970 graduate buy a 1990 graduate his beverage of choice?

I'd be happy to, but I'll probably have to get a note from my mother.

Glad to see you two kiss and make up.

YUCK!!!

Steve, just mailed you their video. Actually, it was romantically touching!