Radar detector's against laser

[jwhite518]

Well with the sharp angular edging on the FJR it is nearly impossible to pickup this fine mochine on a laser.

That's why The Man aims at your helmet.

 

[jjsC6]

Just as a heads up, I bought a Beltronics (which has exactly the same guts as a Escort I'm told) and the Laser was constantly going off out in the country. I did some looking into it and was told by Beltronics customer service that it was picking up cell towers. I was able to exchange it (plus some cash) for another model where the Laser band can be turned off. I did notice that the newer one was not quite as sensitive to Laser, although I was still getting some falses. I turned the Laser band off. I really only care about a radar detector out on the back roads anyway, and laser is only used in cities from my experience.

 

[k7lvo]

Just as a heads up, I bought a Beltronics (which has exactly the same guts as a Escort I'm told) and the Laser was constantly going off out in the country. I did some looking into it and was told by Beltronics customer service that it was picking up cell towers. I was able to exchange it (plus some cash) for another model where the Laser band can be turned off. I did notice that the newer one was not quite as sensitive to Laser, although I was still getting some falses. I turned the Laser band off. I really only care about a radar detector out on the back roads anyway, and laser is only used in cities from my experience.

I think the salesman was blowing smoke.

1. There aren't that many cell towers in the country - most of them are in the city where the most people are.

2. My job takes me to cell towers every day - and I can't remember my Valentine 1 ever going off when approaching a site.

Just as in the police radar bands, there is getting to be an increasing use of the lazer "band." The types of devices lend themselves well to sharing spectrum. In the case of lazer, some of the high-end cars are using it for collision avoidance sensors.

Still, I have to wonder if there wasn't something wrong with the unit you had. Mine doesn't go off all that often.

 

[Geezer]

I think the salesman was blowing smoke.
1. There aren't that many cell towers in the country - most of them are in the city where the most people are.

I agree. Mine gives me false laser alarms more often in areas where there are no cell towers. I think it has to do with the way light passes through the windscreen. I get it more in the late afternoon when the sun is low.

It is common for those towers to have multiple technologies on them. I guess it's possible for something more powerful than cell phone arrays to be shooting across the mountain top and set it off.

 

[ionbeam]

I think the salesman was blowing smoke.
1. There aren't that many cell towers in the country - most of them are in the city where the most people are.

I agree. Mine gives me false laser alarms more often in areas where there are no cell towers. I think it has to do with the way light passes through the windscreen. I get it more in the late afternoon when the sun is low.

FWIW ---> The only thing that sets off a radar detector laser alert is infrared light of a particular wave length. There is nothing laser on a cell tower, only RF (radio frequency) of various frequency bands. It is remotely possible for cell tower to cause an X or Ka band alert but never laser.

The end of your radar detector has a red lens, it may appear black because there is no light passing through it but it *is* red to very dark red. The red lens works as a filter by only passing red light, laser is infraRED. Infrared's wave length is longer than visible light making it invisible to the human eye which is why you don't see the speed gun's laser beam. There are other laser frequencies that are visible, and red like the ubiquitous laser pointer but this frequency of red is not infrared.

During early morning, late afternoon and winter in the northern latitudes the sun is very low in the sky which scatters blue and passes red, hence red sunrises and sunsets. Some of the red components of the sun light are the right wave length to pass through the red lens on radar detector. If you add in passing shadows that block and then pass sun light it looks like a switched laser source to the radar detector, hence you get a couple of sources for laser falsing.

 

[Geezer]

(snip)During early morning, late afternoon and winter in the northern latitudes the sun is very low in the sky which scatters blue and passes red, hence red sunrises and sunsets. Some of the red components of the sun light are the right wave length to pass through the red lens on radar detector. If you add in passing shadows that block and then pass sun light it looks like a switched laser source to the radar detector, hence you get a couple of sources for laser falsing.

Well that certainly explains my situation. Late afternoon sunlight in the mountains where there are patches of light and shade.

Thanks Ion.

 

[Jagermeister]

I have an alternative theory regarding false Laser alerts: Voltage.

Before hard wiring the Escort, I powered it through the cigarette lighter, with no false laser alerts. After hard-wiring it, I noticed it would falsely alert laser in the middle of nowhere, when the RPMs rose quickly.

Later, I tried my Beltronics detector. Same results: Cigarette lighter powered = no false laser. Hard-wired = false laser, when revving up.

My non-engineer conclusion is the lighter socket limits voltage to 12v, while the hard-wire method allows 13v+ when RPMs raise, temporarily overloading the detector, manifesting itself as a false alert.

 

[painman]

Well with the sharp angular edging on the FJR it is nearly impossible to pickup this fine mochine on a laser.

That's why The Man aims at your helmet.

That's why I ride in the full race position. PM. <><

 

[jjsC6]

Just as a heads up, I bought a Beltronics (which has exactly the same guts as a Escort I'm told) and the Laser was constantly going off out in the country. I did some looking into it and was told by Beltronics customer service that it was picking up cell towers. I was able to exchange it (plus some cash) for another model where the Laser band can be turned off. I did notice that the newer one was not quite as sensitive to Laser, although I was still getting some falses. I turned the Laser band off. I really only care about a radar detector out on the back roads anyway, and laser is only used in cities from my experience.

I think the salesman was blowing smoke.

1. There aren't that many cell towers in the country - most of them are in the city where the most people are.

2. My job takes me to cell towers every day - and I can't remember my Valentine 1 ever going off when approaching a site.

Just as in the police radar bands, there is getting to be an increasing use of the lazer "band." The types of devices lend themselves well to sharing spectrum. In the case of lazer, some of the high-end cars are using it for collision avoidance sensors.

Still, I have to wonder if there wasn't something wrong with the unit you had. Mine doesn't go off all that often.

I don't claim to know enough, but you can actually go to Beltronics web-site and it discusses Cell towers. I can say this...

It happend it all times of the day. It happend in the middle of absolute nowhere many times - including in mountains. It happened in the exact some spot on the street I live in in a Houston suburb - every single time I was on the same spot in the road. And many times after they told me about the cell towers, I actually could see a cell tower.

I do agree mine could have had a problem because the model I replaced it with did not false nearly as much, but a few times it did and I always saw a cell tower when the new one gave me a false.

 

[ionbeam]

I have an alternative theory regarding false Laser alerts: Voltage.

I absolutely concur with this!!! Rapid dips in voltage certainly get my Passport’s laser alarm up and running.

Well, I went to Beltronics site and they say:

It is unusual to get false laser warnings. Some cars and other electronics put out more RF interference than others and that interference may cause a false laser alert when certain devices are used. Although rare, using the horn, windshield wipers, or accelerating, can generate RF interference in some vehicles. Does it do the same thing in other cars/trucks? New cell phones, new cars with laser adaptive cruise control, and the wind-shear equipment at some major airports can also cause false laser alerts.

I agree that horns, windshield wipers and accelerating can cause falsing but IMO it's because of voltage fluctuations, not RF. Certainly adaptive cruise and wind-shear equipment will cause falsing.

FWIW, I've written to Beltronics to see what they say (assuming they respond). I'm smelling smoke, seeing mirrors and looking out for piles of ********

An informed consumer is a sales company’s worst nightmare. Would you believe they might actually try to swindle, lie to, trick, mislead, con deceive you just to make a sale?

 

[dbvolfan]

I once just handed my radar detector to the cop and told him he could have it. This after being pulled over two times in the same day by the SAME officer, just south of Atlanta in Henry Co. I lived in Macon and was driving into Atlants for a meeting and he got me on I75N. Got out early and thought I could make it home in time to get some mtn. biking in and I'll be damn if he didnt get me southbound too. He let me off the 2nd time with a good laugh and my radar detector in his hand. It was one of those cheap early 1990's cobras you get for a birthday gift (This was in 1995 or 1996).

I haven't owned a radar detector since then and even though I drive even faster now, I have managed to get fewer tickets. That damn thing probably made me to comfortable speeding.

 

[typ0]

The cigarette lighters in the vehicles I own are not limited to 12v. My detector can show the voltage measured at the socket and it will go 13+. I don't know what he difference between a hard wire and the cig lighter would be. Better connections? good ground? Straight wire vs coiled?

typ0

 

[ionbeam]

Well, I just heard back from Beltronics! The good news is that they did respond to my query that I sent on 11/21/08:

Your FAQs says that:
"Some cars and other electronics put out more RF interference than others and that interference may cause a false laser alert when certain devices are used."

Why would RF and things like Cell towers cause my radar detector to show a laser fault? Laser is light and RF is radio waves. I travel in cell tower rich areas and I'm curious how concerned I should be about laser alerts.

Beltronics responded with an exact, word for word quote of their FAQ:

As you know, it is unusual to get false laser warnings. Some cars and other electronics put out more RF interference than others and this may cause false laser alerts when certain devices are used. Although rare, I have heard using the horn, or windshield wipers causing this affect. Major airports use a wind-shear testing system that can cause false alerts within 5 miles of the source. New cell phones can also cause false laser alerts.
Please call our Customer Service Department and they will give you a repair authorization number and instructions on how to return to us. We will be able to make modifications to your detector that will help.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated :blink: Unless there is a design issue where radio waves get inside the radar detector and cause the light processing circuit to become confused. If this is the case there is some serious under engineering going on.

 

[v65]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated

Entropy, the answer for everything.

 

[Ignacio]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated :blink: Unless there is a design issue where radio waves get inside the radar detector and cause the light processing circuit to become confused. If this is the case there is some serious under engineering going on.

How about because radio waves and light waves are all electromagnetic waves? They're actually the same thing with their main difference being that of frequency. Xrays, UV, visible light, IR, microwave, FM, AM....are all on the same electromagnetic spectrum. IIRC, LIDAR is just above the visible light range in the Infrared range and just below the microwave section that I think most radar runs.

I don't know all the physics, but it seems plausible consumer grade electronics could become confused. The "under engineering" could be some choice about containing manufacturing, engineering, or parts cost and maintaining price points in a competitive market. Maybe designing a detector that doesn't get confused add 50 bucks to the process and they made a choice.

 

[EODSarge]

Infrared lidar is a much higher frequency than X, K, or Ka band radar; in the terahertz range rather than gigahertz range. Interference for a lidar detector will come from either strong infrared light striking the receiver or RFI, radio frequency interference, where strong radio signals will induce a current in the internal circuitry. Pretty much every piece of electronics will generate some RFI and be susceptible itself to it without some shielding.

 

[ionbeam]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated

Entropy, the answer for everything.

Great answer! When in doubt refer to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy is why everything goes down hill.

There is cheap and inexpensive. If the Beltronics light sensor falses due to radio frequency, it is cheap. I have voted by paying more and falsing less with a better detector

If I were to take a *wild* guess, I would guess that widely broadcast radio waves can't cause electrons to flow in a silicon, gallium arsenide or indium based photon receptor :blink:

 

[Hudson]

Infinity cars have a laser-guided distance / cruise control, which sets off my V1 every time.

 

[FJR_pig]

I love this re-occuring thread every time I see it.

The short answer to your original question: No. Those pigs will get you every time. Especially the State Troopers. And the ones in Portland are the worst of them all.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why radio frequency waves will cause a light receptor to be activated :blink: Unless there is a design issue where radio waves get inside the radar detector and cause the light processing circuit to become confused. If this is the case there is some serious under engineering going on.

I'd highly doubt that the rfi is messing with the signal coming in the front end. My experience with rfi follows your second thought in that rfi will royally screw up the what is coming out of the oscillator and doing the processing of the signals within the box. Especially in consumer electronics that don't have to meet a specification called DO-160 (any Rev). Next time you are in your car and going by those towers, have the radio on the am band with the volume turned up and see if you get some noise.