Recent Coolant / oil leak, maybe last oil change

[GMAK]

2020/05/07

Recent Coolant / oil leak, maybe last oil change

Well, I'm back again, with a new, but more perplexing problem.

I've searched this forum for guidance. But, about all I've identified is that "Jestal" is widely
missed for his oil related explanations.

I'm gonna' try to keep this as brief as possible.

I have a 2007 FJR. As of this writing, at 36,650 miles.
The bike was purchased 02/2009 from previous owner, at 3,660 miles.
I perform all oil changes @ ~2,000 mile intervals, including new YAM filter, crush washer, etc.

The last two oil changes look like this:
. 10/18/2018 - Castrol.GTX 10W-30, 33,047 miles, +1,924 miles, +676 days.
The Castrol GTX(Part #P00F79F-03 LBL 03093C-00 D) Details:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-GTX-10W-30-Conventional-Motor-Oil-5-Quarts/17175669?athcpid=17175669&athpgid=athenaItemPage&athcgid=null&athznid=PWVUB&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=13558f22-869-171f0593898f8d&athancid=null&athena=true

. 08/16/2019 - Valvoline 5W-30,         35,192 miles, +2,145 miles, +302 days.
The Valvoline(Part #882837) Details:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-Daily-Protection-SAE-10W-30-Conventional-Motor-Oil-Easy-Pour-5-Quart/15125790

* Both the Castrol, and Valvoline, are "automotive" oils.
* The "+" miles/days represent delta values since the prior change.

All the previous changes since the 02/2009 purchase look like the 10/18/2018 example.

So, to the problem:

About 2 weeks ago, I noticed a medium liquid puddle beneath the
FJR. It was coming from beneath that panel that lives below the
radiator. The panel that hides the exhaust headers. Eventually, I was
able to gain a restricted look around the sides, and below the headers,
I see a few short rubber type hoses. So, I figured it's a coolant leak.

Anyway, to be brief, for various reasons, I'm thinking it may be oil
from the 08/16/2019 Valvoline change. The Valvoline jug reads
"CONVENTIONAL" on the front. But, reading on the rear indicates
"SYNTHETIC BLEND".

Am I demonstrating the statement that synthetic leak(s) may/will ap-
pear if used on older vehicles?

And, if there is a corrective action, what would it be?

Thank you, very much.

 

[Road_Runner]

It's easy to tell the difference between oil and coolant.  What color is the puddle?  Is it think and slick, or more like water?  Before asking for advice on corrective action, you first need to determine what is leaking.

If it is oil, your leak is not caused by a switch to synthetic oil.  

 

[rbentnail]

Don't jump to conclusions, first you have to determine what it is.  There's likely nothing you've done oil-related to leak from the triangle panel behind the front wheel.

How cold has it been there?  My '07 weeps a little coolant from the 90 deg. hose above the overflow reservoir when it's 35 deg F or below after it's been warm for a few days and I've ridden some.  Always has, since new in Jan 2008.  Most times it's right below the reservoir but sometimes from that panel too.  Replacing the crappy OE hose clamps with regular ones and tightening them a little each spring seems to help.  Never leaks if the temp stays above 42-45 deg.

 

[RossKean]

As Road_Runner said, it has nothing to do with conventional vs synthetic oil or automotive vs motorcycle specific.  If it is up front, it is most likely coolant.  If so, it will dissolve in water.  Coolant leaks may come from a loose or worn hose, a hole in the radiator or the plastic overflow tank.  The overflow tanks sometimes get brittle and crack - I had to replace the one in my '07 a few years ago.  I also had a radiator leak develop from the back side - not from road debris.

Check your front forks!  Any chance you have a leaking fork seal?  As with engine oil, fork oil will not dissolve in water either.

Note: If there is a hydraulic leak, the fluid (DOT4) is also water soluble but a significant puddle would leave brakes or clutch non functional pretty quick.

 

[Panman]

If it's not the coolant it could be oil coming from the oil filter, oil will run up the side fairing and drip forward. I had that happen once when I slipped with my "makeshift not let the oil filter oil get all over the place". Found puddles a couple of times, finally pulled the left side fairing and cleaned it. Not one of my brighter moments.

 

[Viper Pilot]

Isn't there a water/oil heat exchanger up front there?  Lower front of the engine.  I believe my '05 had that located there.

 

[FJR Flyer]

If its coolant, check the water pump weep hole.  Shaft seal may be bad.

 

[GMAK]

I'm very very sorry for not responding to these recent comments.

I requested notification(s) of pending responses, but as of this writing,

no notification(s) have been received.

This is my first visit to my original post, to see if any responses arrived.

I will reply individually, and probably not rely further on automated notification(s).

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

It's easy to tell the difference between oil and coolant.  What color is the puddle?  Is it think and slick, or more like water?  Before asking for advice on corrective action, you first need to determine what is leaking.

If it is oil, your leak is not caused by a switch to synthetic oil.  

The puddle liquid appears to be very thin(low viscosity), a dark red(I'm somewhat color challenged), and strangest of all, void of any kind of identifying smell.

However, I'm confused by your second sentence - "If it's oil, you leak....". I guess I'm misunderstanding, because I would think if the leak were oil(i.e. the synthetic

oil), it could only be caused by the synthetic switch.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

Don't jump to conclusions, first you have to determine what it is.  There's likely nothing you've done oil-related to leak from the triangle panel behind the front wheel.

How cold has it been there?  My '07 weeps a little coolant from the 90 deg. hose above the overflow reservoir when it's 35 deg F or below after it's been warm for a few days and I've ridden some.  Always has, since new in Jan 2008.  Most times it's right below the reservoir but sometimes from that panel too.  Replacing the crappy OE hose clamps with regular ones and tightening them a little each spring seems to help.  Never leaks if the temp stays above 42-45 deg.

The bike, from my knowledge/experiences, has never had any kind of leak. It doesn't get too cold here in Texas. But, it certainly has not been anywhere near the low temps you describe.

As yet, I haven't removed any plastic to enable a better investigation. Another strange occurrence, is that the puddle, after staining the concrete garage floor, appears to dry(absorbed into

concrete floor?). But, a day or so later, another new puddle will appear. I working on getting my spouse's assistance is more precise puddle color definition. And, additional review of the

synthetic oil straight from the jug(color, viscosity, etc.)

Thank you.

.

 

[GMAK]

As Road_Runner said, it has nothing to do with conventional vs synthetic oil or automotive vs motorcycle specific.  If it is up front, it is most likely coolant.  If so, it will dissolve in water.  Coolant leaks may come from a loose or worn hose, a hole in the radiator or the plastic overflow tank.  The overflow tanks sometimes get brittle and crack - I had to replace the one in my '07 a few years ago.  I also had a radiator leak develop from the back side - not from road debris.

Check your front forks!  Any chance you have a leaking fork seal?  As with engine oil, fork oil will not dissolve in water either.

Note: If there is a hydraulic leak, the fluid (DOT4) is also water soluble but a significant puddle would leave brakes or clutch non functional pretty quick.

These are very good comments, as are all comments from others. I guess I'm in for some plastic removal to answer those questions(mostly). I wouldn't rule it out, but the fork seals were

done 05/08/2018 @ 33,336(- ~2,000) miles. Of course, that's no guarantee. The leak seems way too rearward to be vertically beneath a fork seal, or fork crown. But, factoring in trail, I

guess anything is possible.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

If it's not the coolant it could be oil coming from the oil filter, oil will run up the side fairing and drip forward. I had that happen once when I slipped with my "makeshift not let the oil filter oil get all over the place". Found puddles a couple of times, finally pulled the left side fairing and cleaned it. Not one of my brighter moments.

Yes, that is another excellent point. The last oil change was <2,000 miles, and I also construct an "oil diversion cover" from tin foil. I've never experienced your problem, but then I've

never experienced my OP problem before either.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

Isn't there a water/oil heat exchanger up front there?  Lower front of the engine.  I believe my '05 had that located there.

I'm not familiar with anything like that. But, I don't profess even moderate mechanical aptitude/prowess. I'll return additional update(s) here after additional fiche review.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

If its coolant, check the water pump weep hole.  Shaft seal may be bad.

As I said earlier, it appears I'm in for some plastic removal. I will surely follow your suggestion once I'm able to access those parts/areas.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

Thanks to ya'll("Ya'll" - A Texas Term for everyone <G&gt for all of your comments and suggestions.

Before I came here this morning, and discovered I'd not been notified of your pending replies. I'd

planned to reverse my last oil change, and revert to my standard Castrol fill. I went yesterday evening

and rounded-up all the materials. But, your suggestions give me pause, and alert that while not an FJR

mechanic, I'm quite experienced in the steps of problem diagnosis. I'm just letting laziness circumvent

the steps needed. I'd read so many stories about synthetic oil changes producing oil seepage/leaks, I

just assumed that is where I now am. But, all these synthetic seepage storage seem to also share a

high mileage component. Uninformed, I would not now consider my 36,650 mile high mileage. I guess I

don't really consider the bike's 13 year age all that troublesome either. Perhaps mistakenly,  I just like

to ride. When it comes to wrenching, I'm not one to enlist. I'll follow up on these pointers, and update

any/all revelations.

Thank you.

 

[GMAK]

I'm not familiar with anything like that. But, I don't profess even moderate mechanical aptitude/prowess. I'll return additional update(s) here after additional fiche review.

Thank you.

I've not been able to identify any so-named parts on an FJR.

However, typically from my experience, a "water heat exchanger" is simply a radiator. Conversely, an "oil heat exchanger" is merely an "oil cooler".

Both units are for some type of additional engine cooling of circulated coolant(aka water), or circulated lubricant(aka oil). These units, and their

supporting hardware are usually positioned in a way to make use of the vehicle wind speed, to effect cooling.

Obviously, the FJR has a radiator(aka "Liquid Heat Exchanger"). And it's mounted in the near front of the bike where it is subject to vehicle wind speed.

I'm not aware of any "Oil Heat Exchanger" on an FJR. But, as example, Harley's would frequently be outfitted with an "Oil Heat Exchanger"(aka "Oil Cooler").

But, at that time, it was because the Harley motorcycle is/was completely air cooled. There was no liquid coolant used in a Harley motor. I think these

Harley "oil coolers" were sometimes factory additions, and sometimes owner additions. But, AFAIK, no motorcycle would have need for both a "Liquid

Heat Exchanger"(Radiator), and a "Oil Heat Exchanger"(Oil cooler). But, I've been wrong before.

Thank you.

 

[SLK50]

All of my liquid cooled vehicles,

including the FJR, have both a 

radiator and an oil cooler. 

 

[FJR Flyer]

As I said earlier, it appears I'm in for some plastic removal. I will surely follow your suggestion once I'm able to access those parts/areas.

Thank you.

You should be able to see the pump and weep hole with the fairing installed.

 

[Road_Runner]

The puddle liquid appears to be very thin(low viscosity), a dark red(I'm somewhat color challenged), and strangest of all, void of any kind of identifying smell.

However, I'm confused by your second sentence - "If it's oil, you leak....". I guess I'm misunderstanding, because I would think if the leak were oil(i.e. the synthetic

oil), it could only be caused by the synthetic switch.

Thank you.

Coolant is a bit slippery, but not nearly as much as oil.  Coolant comes in two flavors... red and green.  Very thin red fluid would most likely be coolant. It is certainly possible that your radiator cap vented coolant down the overflow tube.  This might mean a bad cap, or overheating.  Unlikely it is fork oil... usually forks weep not blast out oil, and if they did you would know as you would have oil all over the lower fork tubes and brakes.

As for the statement about the switch to synthetic not being the issue, synthetic oil is really not all that much different from conventional oil.  It is true that early synthetics did in fact cause leaks due to early chemicals used in the manufacturing process eating away at seals in the engine, but this is way in the past.  Here is some good reading on the subject:

https://auto.howstuffworks.com/switch-to-synthetic-oil.htm

If it were in fact an engine oil puddle, my first thought, and it seems others first thought also would be the oil filter.  Not lubing the oil filter gasket or it is loose.....