Regulator voltage sensor

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
When you have a half full bucket......the bucket gets filled as fast as the water is pouring. When the bucket is full....then the bucket overflows.

When I drink beer(which I'm doing right now), I get drunk......when I get too drunk.....I get overfilled....then bad things happen.

 
When you have a half full bucket......the bucket gets filled as fast as the water is pouring. When the bucket is full....then the bucket overflows.



When I drink beer(which I'm doing right now), I get drunk......when I get too drunk.....I get overfilled....then bad things happen.
Words of wisdom from the great north!

 
When you have a half full bucket......the bucket gets filled as fast as the water is pouring. When the bucket is full....then the bucket overflows.



When I drink beer(which I'm doing right now), I get drunk......when I get too drunk.....I get overfilled....then bad things happen.
No Problem - the excess will flow to ground (one way or another)!

 
Question:

What stops the FJR charging system from overcharging the battery? From the info I've seen it's just a constant voltage system providing 14.4 volts or so. As long as it's not overloaded it delivers a fairly constant voltage. The current output increases and peaks at around 5K rpm.

I don't understand why this system doesn't overcharge the battery? If the battery is fully charged and you ride for a few hours it would seem that the battery might be overcharged.

Don't see how the FJR's system is all that different from a manual charger I use in my garage. Even for the 2 amp output you can overcharge a small battery. It will continue to hammer the battery with 14.4 volts even as the current drops to less than 0.5 amps.

A simple (dumb) garage charger just rectifies a roughly 12V rms AC supply. There is essentially only circuit resistance limiting the charging current, the graph below shows what is going on (this is only intended to show the principles, many approximations in here).

(Click on image for larger view)


The current doesn't go down much as it overcharges, so the energy goes into heat and/or undesirable chemical reactions. Neither is good for the battery.

The bike uses a regulator to limit the voltage offered to the battery. Provided the charger doesn't exceed 14.x volts, the battery will decide how much current to take. A non-voltage regulated charger can and will overcharge the battery. The bike's won't (unless the regulation circuit fails).

This graph of a constant current/constant voltage charger (lifted from a Yuasa document) shows how the "REGULATED CURRENT" reduces as the battery nears full charge, the charger having switched from "constant current" to "constant voltage".



(The document refers to a slightly different battery technology from that of our bikes', but the principles are the same.)

The charger is shown with a constant current of 0.1 C Amps. 'C' refers to the battery's Ampere-Hours figure, 14 in the case of the FJR's OEM 14AH battery, so the example charge current is limited at 1.4A. (Very low for automotive use, but, again, this graph was for a non-automotive battery.) When the battery terminal voltage reaches the charger's voltage limit (15 in the example), the voltage remains constant but the battery draws a reducing current as its charge increases.

Incidentally, the maximum current on our bikes is determined not by the regulator but by the alternator. As the alternator speed increases, so does the open circuit voltage (up to something like 100[?] volts at the maximum engine speed). But, as the speed increases so does the inductive reactance. Even with a short circuit directly on the alternator, the current wouldn't vary much from almost no speed to full speed. Obviously when there's a battery voltage opposing the alternator (as is the norm), the speed must be sufficient to overcome this. However, much above Yamaha's quoted engine speed for the alternator current specification (5000 rpm), the charging current can't go up significantly. (This is a simplification, but hopefully helps explain what is going on.)

The Gen I uses a "shunt regulator" that shunts the alternator current to ground to regulate the voltage (as ionbeam said in his post above), the Gen II uses a "series regulator" that open-circuits its output to the battery.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The battery's internal resistance increases as it becomes charged. With more internal resistance the amount of current (amps) that is delivered to the battery goes down. That's why it doesn't overcharge.

However, I you connect a high-amperage, automotive type charger and pump 40 amps into a motorcycle battery heat will melt the case in no time. Even though the internal resistance is high when the batt is charged the excessive amperage from the charger just turns into heat. Then it becomes a question of which component can stand the most heat---the giant-assed battery charger or the small battery.

 
...I you connect a high-amperage, automotive type charger and pump 40 amps into a motorcycle battery heat will melt the case in no time. Even though the internal resistance is high when the batt is charged the excessive amperage from the charger just turns into heat. Then it becomes a question of which component can stand the most heat---the giant-assed battery charger or the small battery.
If the charging voltage remains constant and the resistance goes up the current has to go down and so does the wattage, therefore the heat goes down. However, there is this matter of running the chemical reaction in the reverse direction and driving off H2 and O2 at the opposite terminals which increases the concentration of the electrolyte which is a bad thing.

If your charger doesn't have a good design and the charging voltage goes up as the resistance goes up then the wattage can go up. Either way the electrolyte solution has the water 'boiled' out.

VRLA batteries are designed to promote recombination of H2 and O2 but also includes a safety valve in case it gets out of control.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, someone's trying to actually "think" on this forum.....it hurt my melon.

 
In a motorcycle (including the FJR) the stator (alternator) is always at full output when the engine is at 4000 rpm+.
Generally true but FWIW there are several bikes that use a system that regulates the alternator output by controlling the current through the stator field coils (rotor in the case of the old 650 Yamaha twins) which controls the output of the rotor just like automobiles do. Some of these are the Honda ST1100 and 1300, GoldWings, most BMWs, and Triumph Explorer. But this is academic to an FJR discussion.

 
Top