Rich and rough engine woes -- 2001 (03 US) Gen 1

[Donal]

Definitely worth having a look at the dog-bone upper bearings. I'm not aware of anyone having problems with them but it would be good to check them out and give them a good seeing to!

 

[sath182]

I packed bother ends of the dog bones with simple lithium grease last time and they were free rolling. The bolts were all crudded up though. Anyway, the wife gave me the go ahead to spend money inspecting the top end and also for whatever bearings I need for the link. I' thinking I'll drain the fluids tomorrow after work and start taking off the pair plumbing. Btw, does removing that make it easier to get the cover off? I'm not planning on a delete though.

 

[Donal]

I packed bother ends of the dog bones with simple lithium grease last time and they were free rolling. The bolts were all crudded up though. Anyway, the wife gave me the go ahead to spend money inspecting the top end and also for whatever bearings I need for the link. I' thinking I'll drain the fluids tomorrow after work and start taking off the pair plumbing. Btw, does removing that make it easier to get the cover off? I'm not planning on a delete though.

The state of the bolts has no impact on the bearings. As long as the needles & collars are clean & greased you should be good to go.

 

[sath182]

I'll plan on getting the upper and lower everything then and just repack the dog bones if needed.

 

[sath182]

Hmm, I was looking at the service manual and couldn't find anything about measuring cam chain stretch. The only thing I found was inspecting the teeth of the sprockets and replacing them and the chain as a set. No other mention of the chain.

 

[Donal]

Do you know if the centre stand has ever been taken off this bike?

If it hasn't, you might want to include a couple of replacement nut/bolts as there is a good chance the originals will need to be cut off.

When assembled in the factory at least one of these bolts is put in back to front and can't be removed without a lot of hassle!

Bolt: 90101-10004

Flanged nut: 95607-10200

 

[sath182]

The stand was replaced when I got it. The bolts are the good way round.

I also found someone that can do the exhaust analysis when I'm done with the valves. Maybe between the timing/valve check and getting the idle CO set I'll be a long way toward getting the engine running properly.

 

[sath182]

Yup, the timing was off. The chain must have skipped a tooth on the crank at some point. I'm gonna try resetting the timing on the cams before I do the valve lash. Mostly so I don't risk any valves more than before. Anyway, here's some pics.

 

[Donal]

Excellent pics, spot on! or should that be spot off?..........................

 

[sath182]

I've had the caps on and off four times now, and I can't seem to get all three points to line up perfectly. Right now as I've left it, the intake seems to be slightly advanced while the exhaust is slightly retarded. I am getting tired of taking the caps on and off to check this under chain tension, and I'm going through zip ties like crazy. Any suggestions for getting this right on the next try? I don't know if the by are off by a tooth or the mysterious half a tooth, but the crank is at TDC and they are a few degrees off. Pictures tomorrow, but bed for now.

 

[Fred W]

I'm sorry that I didn't see this to respond earlier.

The original problem happened because the chain skipped a tooth on the crankshaft sprocket. There was no need to have played around with the cams and/or removed the cam caps. What you should have done is to ty-wrap the chain to the cam sprockets again (same as you did the first time) and then slacken the Cam Chain Tensioner and work the chain over the sprocket in the appropriate direction. Then put the CCT back on and check the alignemnt marks.

But now i fear you may have messed up the timing between the two cams. The two arrows should be pointing at the two dots at some crank position, when the chain is fully tight. If they don't you need to slacken the CCT and adjustthe chain over one of the two cam sprockets to put the right number of links between the two. Once you have that adjusted right, then ty-wrap the chain to the two cams and work on getting the crank sprocket right.

 

[sath182]

Damn, I thought of trying that, but it didn't look like there would be enough slack in the chain to do the crank end. Good news is, I don't need to adjust any valves.

 

[sath182]

I still can't seem to get it all to line up perfectly. I have been able to move the chain one tooth at a time on the top and bottom using the CCT at a tool for pulling the chain through. But it doesn't want to go in place... I've been moving which ever side is off the most, but it doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere. maybe i need to get the bottom off a tooth and try to correct the top by 2 teeth? It's still in that half tooth place.

 

[sath182]

This is where I have to stop for the day. With the cams lined up and in time, but the crank still off.

and then one tooth the other way.

I'm stuck... I'm gonna have to call the dealer tomorrow and see if they can help. There is an FJR club with it's own workshop, but I have to have a membership to get an answer. Barring both of those, I wonder if I'll have to call Yamaha EU.

 

[Donal]

Before you go too far I would (very carefully) check that the camshafts are correctly lined up with the camshaft sprockets.

With the 'dots' on the camsafts lined up with the arrows:

Make sure the horizontal lines on the camshaft sprockets are in line with the head:

If they are lined up correctly then it's back to square one by getting the pick-up rotor correctly aligned:

And then carefully 'stretching' the chain (on the exhaust side) to fit the exhaust cam first and then the intake cam. Can't think why that wouldn't just line up?

 

[Fred W]

This is where I have to stop for the day. With the cams lined up and in time, but the crank still off.

and then one tooth the other way.

I'm stuck... I'm gonna have to call the dealer tomorrow and see if they can help. There is an FJR club with it's own workshop, but I have to have a membership to get an answer. Barring both of those, I wonder if I'll have to call Yamaha EU.

Were these pictures taken after re-installing the CCT and re-tensioning the chain? You have to get all of the slack out of the exhaust side (front) of the chain to check the timing.

Last time that I put my chain back on I had a difficult time getting the chain onto the crank sprocket when a three sprockets were at their timing marks. When I put the tension back on it it wanted to skip the chain forward a tooth on the crank (the top two were ty-wrapped on). What I did was to rotate the crank backwards a tiny bit (CCW) just enough to allow the chain to drop onto the sprocket and then rotate it back forwards and check the alignment marks. Then rotate it by hand forward through a full cam rotation and recheck again.

By the way, any time that you rotate the engine backwards at all (even with the CCT installed) it may put some slack on the un-tensioned exhaust side. It's OK to do that a little a bit by hand, just make sure to turn in forwards again (CW) enough to take the slack back out before checking the marks.

 

[sath182]

The cams are definitely lined up with the sprockets. I have pics but can't post them at the moment. The pics are after a full clockwise rotation of the cams and the CCT released. None of the shops are open today since its Sunday and chores come before the bike unless I want my better half to become my worse half.

 

[sath182]

I just took both cams out, secured the chain to the crank and carefully replaced the cams as per the manual and I'm still in the same place. The crank is slightly advanced (~10 degrees) with the cams flush. I'm thinking that at this point I should chalk it up to wear in the cam chain. There is enough slack that I can start with everything timed and it advances the crank as soon as the CCT is released. Up to that point everything is kosher with the manual. The only difference is after rotating the engine once they get out of time.

It still turns freely, and the timing marks are already in a better position than they were. I'm pretty close to just slapping it all together and calling it a day. One dealer I called was adamant that there was no way the engine would even start let alone run with the timing off by one tooth. So I'm definitely on my own with this one.

At $58 each for the cam sprockets and another $32 for the chain, plus the service required to replace the sprockets, I don't want to get them if I don't have to.

 

[kamal]

Last time that I put my chain back on I had a difficult time getting the chain onto the crank sprocket when a three sprockets were at their timing marks. When I put the tension back on it it wanted to skip the chain forward a tooth on the crank (the top two were ty-wrapped on). What I did was to rotate the crank backwards a tiny bit (CCW) just enough to allow the chain to drop onto the sprocket and then rotate it back forwards and check the alignment marks. Then rotate it by hand forward through a full cam rotation and recheck again.
By the way, any time that you rotate the engine backwards at all (even with the CCT installed) it may put some slack on the un-tensioned exhaust side. It's OK to do that a little a bit by hand, just make sure to turn in forwards again (CW) enough to take the slack back out before checking the marks.

sath

Did you try what Fred suggested above? Makes sense to me.

Al.

 

[sath182]

I am able to slip the chain on the crank sprocket in either direction. If I slip it back words it just goes off the other direction and advances the timing.