?'s about performance mods

[UselessPickles]

As soon as schedules allow, I will be getting my bike dyno'd along with a stock FJR to find out exactly how much I gained.

Here's what I've done to my bike:

• Holeshot header + Remus Hexacone slip-ons (the Holeshot header was designed to fit the previously existing Holeshot slip-ons, so it's technically compatible with any after-market slip-on, but some, like the Hexacones, require expanding of mid-pipes to fit the header).
• The "Wicked Webby" air box mod: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114873
  
• Motty AFR Tuner (similar to the new Power Commander V + Auto-Tune module): https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=113507
  

This all cost me somewhere around $2500 and a lot of custom DIY installation/modification.

I expect my results to be similar to Wicked Webby's results because he also has the same air box mod and Remus Hexacones. However, he has a stock header and less precise control over fueling adjustments than I do, so I predict a bit more top-end HP/TQ (from the header) and smoother HP/TQ curves (from the more precisely tuned fueling). Here's Wicked Webby's dyno chart. The lowest curve is with Remus Hexacone slip-ons and everything else stock. The highest curve is with the modded air box introduced along with very crude adjustments to fueling (controversial adjustments made through the bike's display panel via the "Barbarian Mod" that is believed by some to be a baseline fuel injector trim adjustment that affects the entire RPM range):

The best evidence of performance gains I have right now is from the drag strip. My previous best run on a nearly stock FJR (Holeshot header + stock cans, PCIII with standard map - not properly tuned) was 11.360s @ 120.6mph. My current best on the new modded bike is 10.894s @ 126.76mph. According to a data log (from the Motty AFR Tuner) on a 10.999s run, I reached 120mph in 9.79s. That's a 1.57s and 13.8% gain in 0-120 acceleration.

Some other tidbits of info:

• For maximum performance (how much more is unknown), look at the Muzzy 4-into-1 complete exhaust system. Personally, I think it's ugly and not worth a bit more power to have a single-sided exhaust system on a bike that was designed to have dual exhaust.
• There isn't any product known to be compatible with the FJR that can alter ignition timing.

As for the full exhaust system for the C14 that you pointed to, it gives a 14.5% increase in peak HP and 7.4% increase in peak TQ. I don't know how well peak TQ/HP gains translate to gains in acceleration times (actually depends on the exact gains across the entire RPM range, more biased to the high end because the low/mid range is only used in 1st gear to get going, etc.), but I could imagine than the gains I've gotten (13.8% in 0-120 acceleration) are similar percentage-wise to the gains on the C14 with similar mods (a full exhaust system and custom fuel mapping).

Bask in its glory!

 

[CRMH Eagle]

Though I still have a lot to learn on riding, the FJR is incredibly "performanced" enough for me.

If you want thrills then do like Warchild and get a Die-a-busa.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Lewis,

This has all been covered many times over. I will cut you some slack because I know how

poor the search function on this board can be.

The C14 and the FJR are both great performers. Both are great bikes!

The Gen II FJR comes right out of the box with the following that that C14 doesn't have:

*Lighter weight, *Adjustible handle bars, *Adjustible seat, *Larger gas tank, *Longer valve check service intervals: (26K vs 15K), *Ability to use low octane fuels, *Ability to add fuel values to the FI system (via the barbarian mod) without needing a FI tuner, *Fully adjustible front suspension.

The C14 comes right out of the box with the following that the FJR doesn't have:

A peak hp advantage. Tire pressure monitoring system, 6th gear, and the Kipass security.

Both bikes come from the factory with very similiar amounts of peak tq.

I am sure you know that all dynos read different peak numbers. You would be a fool if you assumed that a properly highly tuned modified C14 runs, walks, or even out performs a properly highly tuned modified FJR. Regardless to what you've read.... The FJR responds very well to adding fuel, adding air, and opening up the exhaust. Here is some real World performance comparisions of these two bikes after both having proper performance modifications and a high level of tune:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=107859&hl=

More examples of how close these bikes compete:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...07295&st=20

As far as performance mods go... I cannot take credit for slip-on exhausts or full exhaust gains...

Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification. If you do some searching around here you will discover that. A couple years ago, after many of the Ole timers here had told me that the God's of the FJR had spoken and that you could not gain anymore power out of the highly tuned factory air box... I proved them all WRONG!! Soon after, came variants of my air box mod (AKA.... Cdogs air box mod). Then a year or so later, Pickles came along an used my dyno proven air box mod and put the same Remus Hexacone slip-ons on his bike. Glad he did! I put my performance recipe out here for all to see and use. My idea was to give back so that others could improve on their FJR's performance.

Pickles is right... My dyno sheet (that he has re-posted a few times) was run without my fuel adding tuner and only utilizing the barbarian fuel adding mod only. Also, my posted dyno pulls were done only with my Remus Hexacone slip-on exhaust and with the cats in place. Since... I had added the Techlusion/Dolbeck FI tuner, obtained a cat free header and road tuned with a wideband data logging 02 sniffer (for even more performance). Pickles has yet to show (Has not had his bike on the dyno) that the Motty self tuning box creates more peak power than the Dolbeck/Techlusion. I doubt it will. Peak is peak (as long as your in tune) no matter how much self adjusting you do. Though, I would argue that the self tuning the Motty does is really cool. It is ground breaking for those going on long road trips (where elevation and conditions might drastically change). This is the benefit of the Motty. Way to go Pickles for putting one on the FJR and sharing the info!

Lewis you won't go wrong with either bike.

WW

 

[edjo69]

"Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification."

Damn, that's a pretty big claim for an airbox mod, albeit a substantial air box mod, but "ground breaking"?

 

[Wicked Webby]

"Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification."
Damn, that's a pretty big claim for an airbox mod, albeit a substantial air box mod, but "ground breaking"?

Hahaha!!

You damn skippy!!

:yahoo:

WW

 

[UselessPickles]

"Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification."
Damn, that's a pretty big claim for an airbox mod, albeit a substantial air box mod, but "ground breaking"?

I think what he means is that doing the air box mod will cause your engine to explode so catastrophically that it will create a crater in the ground.

 

[Wicked Webby]

"Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification."
Damn, that's a pretty big claim for an airbox mod, albeit a substantial air box mod, but "ground breaking"?

I think what he means is that doing the air box mod will cause your engine to explode so catastrophically that it will create a crater in the ground.

Exactly!!

 

[edjo69]

"Though, I will take full credit for my ground breaking air box modification."
Damn, that's a pretty big claim for an airbox mod, albeit a substantial air box mod, but "ground breaking"?

I think what he means is that doing the air box mod will cause your engine to explode so catastrophically that it will create a crater in the ground.

Exactly!!

At least you guys have a sense of humor about it, I would have been worried if you replied seriously to my post.

 

[DingusKahn]

Pickles

Nice write up. I really like those mufflers. The shape and the color really complement the black bike. I have on 08 also. I can see them in my future, after a few basic touring farkles.

Lewis,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. My Chrysler 300C SRT8 came with 425hp and would top out at 165, which I tested (governed.) But it soon got boring. Now I have 515hp AT THE REAR WHEELs (550 to 570 flywheel.) Have hit 180mph. I'm sure it could do 195, maybe 200, but I will never try it - aerodynamics??? (it was steady as a rock at 180). But now I wish it had another 100hp. You just get used to driving the thing and want MORE... With gears (it has 3.06 dif) and street slicks I'm sure it would run low 11s. Not bad for a 4500lb 4door luxury car! But I think I'm done with the car. It's still very fun to drive and great for trips whith the family.

I haven't started any mods on the FJR, and not sure I will (duh, of course I will.) It REALLy is fun just the way it is. And it SMOKES the SRT8! Except for top end of course. I guess Yamaha got the power smoothed out. I don't notice any problems at all in the power curve. My main decision in getting the FJR over the connie was the dealer. Local small town Yamaha/Honda dealer VS bigger Kawasaki/everything else.dumbass.salesmen dealer down the road. That and he took my Harley (WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING when I bought that POS ???) in trade... for 2 Yamamamas. My FJR and my son's R6 (purty orange!)

I added some performance crap to the Harley and had it dyno tuned for max performance. It had 101hp and 98lbft at the rear wheel. Not too bad... but the FJR is night and day faster. I think the 900+ lbs of all that steel and chrome (Screamin Eagle Full dresser, LOTs of Chrome) just made it a pig. I have to admit, in 2 years and 12,000 miles, I never had a single problem with the Harley. Not one. IT JUST HANDLES LIKE THE PIG IT IS!!! FJR - Much more fun. I LOVE IT! :yahoo: LOVE IT! :yahoo: LOVE IT!

 

[stuckinohio]

UselessPickles and Wicked Webby,

Nice to hear the results you have had. Initially, while searching the forums, I wasn't sure how much these mods were adding up to, sorta like information overload! And of course its hard to tell how much difference there actually is performance wise from mags..

Truthfully I hope I am more comfortable on the FJR, as on paper it seems like a better bike. I will tell you, I was extremely impressed with the C14 and it will be a tough fight. I felt right at home on it and I loved the engine smoothness, except I would need to lower the pegs a little. This is where I hope the FJR will help me, being 6'3"

Lewis

 

[user 213]

[SIZE=8pt]Pssst - Don't lower the pegs, raise the seat.[/SIZE]

 

[stuckinohio]

Pssst - Don't lower the pegs, raise the seat.

HeHe, never thought of that. Dont have that option on my ancient technology bike! They do irritate me when they are lowered due to scraping all the time, but I have to leave them on for comfort.

 

[user 213]

Even if you have the FJR seat at the highest position and it's not enough, or you go with the C-14, (don't know if it has adjustable seat height), the option of having some custom seat work done to get the height you need to be comfortable is well worth the cost. A custom seat is one of the best additions to any bike that gets ridden.

 

[madmike2]

Even if you have the FJR seat at the highest position and it's not enough, or you go with the C-14, (don't know if it has adjustable seat height), the option of having some custom seat work done to get the height you need to be comfortable is well worth the cost. A custom seat is one of the best additions to any bike that gets ridden.

Yes....it is!

 

[greywolf]

Does anyone run with an upgraded chip (Genesis) ?

I saw them out on Ebay , searched here and saw no evidence so it seems it is not a popular choice.

 

[UselessPickles]

Does anyone run with an upgraded chip (Genesis) ?
I saw them out on Ebay , searched here and saw no evidence so it seems it is not a popular choice.

I wouldn't waste my money on that. The only info I can find about it is all the great claims of increased HP, TQ, engine life, performance under the sheets and more. No information about what it actually does or if/how it is adjusted.

Here's the website with all the great claims: https://www.genesisperformancemodules.com/

The "common questions" are answered quite vaguely and even seem to be contradictory (bolding added by me):

WILL YOUR MODULE WORK WITH MY POWER COMMANDER OR OTHER FUEL CONTROLLERS?
OUR ENGINEER DESIGNED GENESIS PERFORMANCE MODULE IS DESIGNED TO WORK 100% WITH ALL EFI AFTERMARKET FUEL CONTROLLERS, FROM BOONDOCKER SYSTEMS TO POWER COMMANDERS AND EVERYTHING IN-BETWEEN BUT PLEASE NOTE, OUR MODULE IS NOT DESIGNED TO TAKE THE PLACE OF A FUEL CONTROLLER WHEN USING AFTERMARKET PIPES OR AIRBOX MODS

WILL THE GENESIS PERFORMANCE MODULE WORK WITH MY EXHAUST OR AIRBOX MODIFICATIONS?
WE HAVE YET TO FIND A MODIFICATION THAT OUR MODULE WILL NOT WORK WITH, DUE TO ITS SIMPLICITY IN DESIGN AND ENGINEERING OUR CHIP WILL WORK WITH EVERY MOD YOU CAN THINK OF ALL WHILE ITS SELF ADJUSTING CYCLES TAKE CARE OF THE FINER PIONTS FOR YOU

 

[greywolf]

Thanks , it did sound a bit like "snake oil" in my experience a good ECU program works well , i.e. power commander and the like.

 

[Fred W]

Previous bikes are GS500 Suzuki, Yamaha radian, V65 Magna and the current Concours.

:lol:

Just ride an FJR for a while first, then come back and we'll talk about your increased need for speed.

And FWIW, it doesn't really matter if it's "down on power compared to its competition". When you are as close to perfect as these big ST bikes are, it's way more about the rider than the bike.

 

[Attila]

That's an exhaust system. So what?

Well, not sure if you saw the power increases that the sytem is claiming, but they are substantial. From what I have seen, the systems for the FJR only add 6 to 9 horsepower. Seems like its a little hard to make horsepower improvements on the FJR compared to the Concours. Maybe not. Maybe I'm wrong. Trying to figure out all the positives and negatives to each.

One of the main reasons for upgrading bikes (for me anyways) is to get more power. No matter what, I always get tired/used to whatever amount of power that my bike or car puts out, as I think everyone does. I want the ability to easily add horsepower when I get to this point.

Plus, being fuel injected, I expected to find larger performance gains in tuning, rather than just smoothness.

The catalytic converters are in the rear portion of the pipe on the FJR or at least that is what Yammie told me when I bought my 08 model and if that is the case, I can't see how simply slipping on a set of sombody's slip on mufflers can help do anything much but make more noise. The cats in the C-14 Kaw are located in that big ugly single muffler it comes with and so if you replace it's muffler with one from Mr. Bling, remove the secondary flies and get a re-map via a Powercommander, it's presto......145 hp at the wheel. The C-14 also has VVT which alters the valve timing as much as 23.8 degrees depending on the throttle setting and rpm range and 23 degrees of valve timing is a bunch but this somewhat trick piece of engineering has it's downside, it's complicated and a muther to work on. The cams in the C-14 are a lot more evil than those in the FJR which is responsible for it's big top end power among other things. The C-14 is about 45 lbs. heavier than an ABS equipped Gen II FJR and so you can do the math on the power to weight ratio thing and in a drag race, two vehicles having the same power to weight ratio the lighter combination will generally win all other factors being equal. Somebody said nobody made cams for the FJR which is not true because both MegaCycle and Web cams will both make you a set of hardweld cams if you know what profile you want and you send them a cam core and hardweld cams are in fact the most durable of all cam designs.

Fuel injection has many attributes but it's not the performance panacea that lot's of folks think it is and if your motor is getting the needed volumn of air with the correct velocity and a AF ratio close to 13.5 to 1 it won't care or know whether it has fuel injection or carburetors as far as hp and torque goes. My recently departed 96 V-Max made more horsepower and torque per cubic inch than my 08 FJR makes and it had relatively small for it's size motor, 35 mm carburetors and those carburetors were a hellva lot easier to tune than this electronic fuel injection stuff is and you didn't need a $350.00 Power Commando to do it, just some jets and 30 minutes worth of dyno time. It's much easier to meet present day emissions requirements with electronic fuel injection plus it doesn't have pilot jets that stop up, float bowls that stick and so forth and it's somewhat idiot proof and hence the reason everything today has gone that route including lawn mowers.........except NHRA Pro/Stock drag bikes and cars.