Saga of the blowing fuse...

[luvtoride]

Hi, my name is Heidi & I'm a fuse blower. Believe me, fuse blowing is not my idea of fun... especially if the fuse won't stay still.

Now, for being serious... Bike has been blowing the fuse in the #2 position in the fuse box. A 15 amp guy, it is. Been looking for the culprit for about 2 months (weekends only) & finally & very reluctantly took it to the stealer.

I heard from them today. It looks like the fact that I have aftermarket horns is probably the problem. Something about the aftermarket horns being different amps than the stockers.

I have a relay in order to separate the horns from the circuit but have not installed it, yet. Well, it seems that maybe I should have. I would've saved myself the hefty price of an hour's worth of dealer labor. Seems they picked the problem off pretty fast.

If this happens to you, & these symptoms fit your situation, this may be your problem, too.

So, signed me pleased that I'm pretty sure that I won't need to sign away someone else's firstborn to pay to get my bike out of hock.

This is not a 100% diagnosis until the relay is installed & they test it... but sounds very plausible to me. What do you guys think?

 

[kaitsdad]

Very possibly that's the culprit -

And the fuse is doing it's job - you're lucky that the horn button didn't fuse together in the ON position. That can be interesting, to say the least.

Get that relay installed !

 

[ionbeam]

If the fuse only blows when the horn is activated I would have some confidence that they found the problem. If the fuse is popping when the horn is not blowing I have low confidence that they found the problem -- unless they found horn related wires that were improperly installed causing an intermittent short.

 

[luvtoride]

The fuse is not popping upon horn toot. The way it was explained to me, there is power running to the horn 100% of the time. The negative loop needs to be closed for the horn to sound... thus the problem with different amps.

& thanks for bursting my "pleased" bubble Alan. If this is not the issue, then I go back into waiting mode & will possibly be signing away someone else's firstborn.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Sorry, Heidi -- no current is flowing until the circuit is closed (horn button pushed).

They may have fixed the problem? -- but, missed on the explanation.

Is/was the fuse-blowing (completely) random?

 

[ionbeam]

It won't be all for naught, the higher amperage aftermarket horns will perform better and be easier on your electrical system once they are grounded through a properly wired relay.

As the tech explained it; as you heard it; as you report it; as I interpret it :lol: I don't see the horn by itself as the root cause unless there is some kind of a wiring problem with the horn.

Edit: I see charismatic covered the communications part while I was typing.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Sorry, Heidi -- no current is flowing until the circuit is closed (horn button pushed).They may have fixed the problem? -- but, missed on the explanation.

Is/was the fuse-blowing (completely) random?

+1 to everything that Charismatic and Ion wrote. You might wait a bit to see if they really solved the problem, even if inadvertently. If not, you may think about putting the stock horns back in for a while to see if the problem goes away.

But it also may mean something deeper....

Get ready for it....

Here it comes....

It may mean that Heidi likes to toot her own horn !!! :yahoo:

hee hee hee

 

[RAVENRIDER]

After reading all these countless posts about after market horns, I just have to throw something in here.

In the split second one has time to save his bacon, you are far better off taking some sort of evasive action than laying on the horn no matter how loud you think it is because ...

a) the driver with the cell/gps/radio/argument going on etc aint going to pay much heed anyway, and

B) if you wind up pissing the driver off proper, you may very well win the battle but lose the war.

In my humble experience, after market horns are a great feel good measure, but you'll feel better not going to the hospital.

Peace,

Murph

 

[luvtoride]

Ravenrider, the horns were put on by the previous owner. I don't disagree with you. More times than not, I've made an evasive maneuver & did not nearly have time to conciously find the horn button.

My concern isn't that the horn doesn't work. My concern, because of the blowing fuse, my horn, dash display lights & brake lights don't work. Can you guess which I'm most concerned about not working? Bet you can.

& ok Checkies... you're just the funnyman, aren't you?

& an update: I just got back from dropping off the wiring harness that I purchased specifically for the horns (& to keep something like this from happening... little did I know). The service manager is extremely confident that this will solve the case of the blowing fuse.

Also, I asked him directly if there is always power on to the horn relay & if the switch does indeed close the ground circuit. He told me yes... & added that most switches on modern bikes are this way now instead of the burst of energy created by closing a positive circuit.

Anyway, I will let you guys know if this works. I am keeping my fingers crossed... 'cause, I don't want to sign over someone's first born to them.

Oh Alan, I forgot to say... he actually does think that there is a wiring issue. Over time(I've been running these horns improperly for 4 years) he feels that there may be degredation of the wiring due to this amps situation.

Going back to crossing my fingers now.

 

[Bounce]

There's a reason ALL the tech advice says to use relays. It's not to complicate the installation.

If you've been using the up-amped install for a long time and the fuse is just now popping, they may be right in that it may have blown prior to seriously overheating the harness often enough to accumulate damage to the wiring.

Bummer and costly to repair back to OEM standard. I hope they find out differently but get those horns on their own circuit with a relay toot sweet!

 

[luvtoride]

Bounce, service manager feels that separating the horn onto its own circuit is going to solve the problem. I should probably have the bike back tonight or tomorrow.... BUT keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Patriot]

After reading all these countless posts about after market horns, I just have to throw something in here.
In the split second one has time to save his bacon, you are far better off taking some sort of evasive action than laying on the horn no matter how loud you think it is because ...

a) the driver with the cell/gps/radio/argument going on etc aint going to pay much heed anyway, and

B) if you wind up pissing the driver off proper, you may very well win the battle but lose the war.

In my humble experience, after market horns are a great feel good measure, but you'll feel better not going to the hospital.

Peace,

Murph

my steibel air horn has saved my sorry ash thrice...18 wheeler in right lane (changing lanes, falling asleep, reading his Playboy, etc) was drifting into my lane with me at his side. Yes I'm drifting far to the left ready to hit the brakes and/or jump into the lil thin emergency lane over the white line as far left as possible. Even willing to go into the grass and jump the coming culvit like Steve McQueen jumping the barbed wire fence. As I slow, I see those 4 tires on the trailer coming at me from my right. I'm laying on the horn and he immediately jerks to the right and back into his lane. I make a comment on the

CB channel 19, and he apoligizes and says he will pay more attention to his mirrors and look harder for motor sickles.

Woman on the cell phone in right lane on city street looking to the right with baby in car seat in right front passenger seat. She sees traffic slowing for a red light and starts to the left into my lane as I'm in her blind spot. Same readiness as before, but lay on my air horn. She stays in her lane.

Blue haired old lady turns left from oncoming traffic on four lane state road. I'm probably going too fast to stop as she makes her turn, and doesn't make eye contact with me as far as I can tell. Still drifting across the median and not stopping. I learn to lean on the horn button with the heel of my hand while flashing the high beams with my thumb. She jerks to a stop.

I attribute these three saves to the 132db horn and can't guarantee that the space around me and the high g manuvers to avoid these situations as they were thrust upon me would have had a good outcome.

I just want them to know I'm there whether by sound or sight; I want to get their attention. I feel once that's done, I can handle the rest.

Just my 1.5 cents & YMMV,

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...Also, I asked him directly if there is always power on to the horn relay & if the switch does indeed close the ground circuit. He told me yes... & added that most switches on modern bikes are this way now instead of the burst of energy created by closing a positive circuit.

I hate to say this, Heidi -- but the S.M.'s statement shows a gross lack of understanding of electrical theory. The "burst of 'positive' energy", specifically.... :blink: :blink:

service manager feels that separating the horn onto its own circuit is going to solve the problem. I should probably have the bike back tonight or tomorrow

What caused the blown fuses -- not 'think' -- facts are needed. Sounds-like he's experimenting on your dime....?

Surely, there must be a knowledgeable tech in your area? Beware, mechanics often have a slim grasp of electricity....

 

[luvtoride]

<snip>...Also, I asked him directly if there is always power on to the horn relay & if the switch does indeed close the ground circuit. He told me yes... & added that most switches on modern bikes are this way now instead of the burst of energy created by closing a positive circuit.

I hate to say this, Heidi -- but the S.M.'s statement shows a gross lack of understanding of electrical theory. The "burst of 'positive' energy", specifically.... :blink: :blink:

service manager feels that separating the horn onto its own circuit is going to solve the problem. I should probably have the bike back tonight or tomorrow

What caused the blown fuses -- not 'think' -- facts are needed. Sounds-like he's experimenting on your dime....?

Surely, there must be a knowledgeable tech in your area? Beware, mechanics often have a slim grasp of electricity....

I don't see there being much more that I can do at this point but wait to see. There are not folk in my area that are at all familiar with an FJR... never mind the FJR's electrical system. Short of possibly traveling hundreds of miles, my local dealer seems to be my best bet.

& the comment that you've made about the "gross lack of understanding". Honestly, that is probably not his exact words. That is his statement filtered through me. He was explaining something similar.

And are you saying that he is also incorrect in telling me there is (positive) juice consistently going to the relay?

Are you an FJR mechanic? Where do you live? I'm coming to your house next.

PS, I forgot to mention that I am only in 1 hour shop time as of right now.

 

[wfooshee]

Until the switch is closed (button pushed) there is no current flow, whether the switch is between the positive and the device or between the ground and the device. It has become standard practice to place the switch between the ground and the device and the fuse between the positive and the device, but untill the contacts on the switch touch, there is no current flow.

Many people misread this because if they put a voltmeter on the positive side of the device, they see 12 volts. That means there's current, right?

Wrong!

Tech warning for this paragraph. Science! >>>>------ Voltage is not current flow. Voltage is potential energy. Voltage at a wire doesn't mean electrons are actually moving through the wire. (They're moving through the voltmeter, not the circuit.)

My guess is that the horn was hooked up with wire of insufficient gauge, which gets hot with current flow. (Too many amps for its diameter.) Over time that can melt an insulator, corrode a connection, etc. A melted insulator can short if it bumps a grounded surface, and a corroded connector adds resistance, which makes the circuit draw even more amps, which makes it get hotter still. (That's why nasty-***-looking Ford headlight switches get all melted after a while.)

You'll be fine with a relay and correctly sized wiring, but the guy (while he may actually know how to hook something up) doesn't quite understand electricity.

 

[ctfjr]

Until the switch is closed (button pushed) there is no current flow, whether the switch is between the positive and the device or between the ground and the device. It has become standard practice to place the switch between the ground and the device and the fuse between the positive and the device, but untill the contacts on the switch touch, there is no current flow.
Many people misread this because if they put a voltmeter on the positive side of the device, they see 12 volts. That means there's current, right?

Wrong!

Tech warning for this paragraph. Science! >>>>------ Voltage is not current flow. Voltage is potential energy. Voltage at a wire doesn't mean electrons are actually moving through the wire. (They're moving through the voltmeter, not the circuit.)

My guess is that the horn was hooked up with wire of insufficient gauge, which gets hot with current flow. (Too many amps for its diameter.) Over time that can melt an insulator, corrode a connection, etc. A melted insulator can short if it bumps a grounded surface, and a corroded connector adds resistance, which makes the circuit draw even more amps, which makes it get hotter still. (That's why nasty-***-looking Ford headlight switches get all melted after a while.)

You'll be fine with a relay and correctly sized wiring, but the guy (while he may actually know how to hook something up) doesn't quite understand electricity.

You are pretty much right on wfoo - It is hard to believe that the original install used wire so small that the time elapsed for short horn bursts caused the insulation on it to melt - hard to believe but with some shade tree mechanics anything is possible.

However you are a little off on your corroded connector explaination. When a connector (or connection of any kind) corrodes so that the resistance of the connection goes up the overall current in that circuit actually decreases somewhat (more total resistance in that loop). But the power (heat) dissappated across that connection goes up a ton, P=(current squared * resistance). In real world numbers the connection resistance might go from .0001 ohms to .1 ohms. For a horn circuit drawing 10 amps the good connection would dissapate (100*.0001 Watts) = .01 watts and the corroded one would be (100*.1 watts)= 10 watts. That is a ton of heat to dissapate at a point. It surely would heat up quickly and further degrade the connection.

 

[Dudewado]

You obviously have an electron problem.

Have you ever ridden the bike in San Francisco? Played Barry Manilow music too close to the bike?

Let Bust sit on your bike?

Sometimes electrons come out of the closet and become "queertons", thus the blown fuses.

Just tryin' to help.

 

[Violione]

Hey Heidi,

Thanks for not mentioning my name as being one who looked at it and couldn't find the problem, twice...

Uh did I just post that? :huh:

 

[FJReady]

I wired up my aftermarket 'magnum blasters' according to instructions at Mr. Warchilds fjrtech site (or possibly HMarc's www.fjr1300.info site). properly done with a relay and the new amps required for the horns don't go through the stock wiring or horn switch. Been working fine for 4+ years- and they get fair amount of use in the greater Boston area.

It's pretty straight forward if you want to follow through the refeneces above. It's kind of important to chase any electrical demons out of the bike. Good Luck.