Second bike in the garage

[wfooshee]

My brother went out to the Republic of Kalifornia a month or so ago with some friends, maybe to move, maybe not, he's checking it out. Anyway, he didn't take the bike, asked me to go to our stepmother's and get it out of her garage.

It's a 2002 Honda VTR-1000F, a 1-liter 90-degree water-cooled V-twin. Back when AMA Superbikes were 750s and Ducati was given a liter and kept cleaning up, Honda said OK, we can do that, too. And cleaned up. And AMA changed the rules. Again.

Anyway, I go over to get it. It's only 4 miles from my house, so I drive over, planning to ride the thing home, then take my bicycle back to pick up my car. I get there, and it won't start. Hardly even coughs. Crank at WOT for a few seconds and the front cylinder runs for a second or two.

Another day, I trailer it home and set it aside for a bit. Chatted with him, and he admits to having let it sit, maybe a bit too long. Like 4 or 5 months.

So today I do a little experiment, pour a bit of gas down the throats, and it runs! Until that gas burns out. So I know I have a fueling problem. I also have another problem: I know **** about carburetors. I yank them off anyway.

Vacuum chambers are good, diaphrams intact. I can see the plates moving in the throats as I crank the bike. Item 1. Check.

Float bowls are full of gas. Floats are free, float valve looks good, nice and clean. I can blow through the fuel hose with the carbs inverted and I see the float lift. Item 2. Check.

Now we're getting into the parts I know **** about. How does air flowing through the throat suck gas out of the float bowl and atomize it into something that will burn in the cylinder? I dunno. Might have something to do with that pointy thing attached to the plate that the vacuum diaphram sucks over, some kind of needle thingie. Item 3. Yeah, not so much.

I point my air blower at all the little tubes and holes and things that I can find, and gas comes out of some of them. Cool.

I get everything all back together, and nothing's any different. Crank at WOT, then back off, the front cylinder fires for 2 or 3 seconds, but can't keep the motor turning. Dump a bit of gas down the rear carb and crank, and the bike runs for a time pretty much exactly proportionate to how much gas I poured in, then stumbles and stalls. Bike now sits in the garage again, on its battery tender.

My brother's had this bike for 6 years or so, got it CHEAP from some kid who decided it wasn't cool enough, I think. Plus the fact that he'd dropped it so it wasn't pretty any more. (You can see the road rash in the pics, left side of bike around the radiator opening. I've ridden it just a bit, the first time I took my FJR over to Pensacola to see him when he lived there we went out and played, and swapped for a few minutes.

It's quick, it vibrates (pulses, really - it's a twin, after all,) has a hug-the-tank riding position that's offset at speed by the air blast in your chest, and the top three gears are so close together ratio-wise that I thought it hadn't shifted at first. Also, it's bit short on range, carrying maybe a hundred miles' worth of fuel.

So you look at the picture and ask, How can that tank not carry enough gas to go more'n a hunnert miles??!?!

Well, most of the tank is nothing but an airbox cover:

So babysitting could be kinda cool, but babysitting sick kids is no fun at all!

 

[SkooterG]

Seafoam. Ring Free. Something like that.

Carbs suck. Been a long time since I had one apart. Most likely varnished fuel in there plugging the jets. Not something I would want to **** with. I am sure there are others whoe feel differently.

 

[blassoff]

I'd go simple. You said it's a twin and the carbs are already off. Take them to a shop you trust and have them clean them. If there's a K&N rebuilding kit for it, they're usually like $30 a carb. You could have them rebuilt for less than $100.

That's my $.02.

Sweet looking bike, good luck!

 

[mk2wilson]

Check your pilot jet. More than likely it is clogged. Not sure about that carb, but most carbs I have worked on the pilot jet controls idle to about 1/4 then the needle kicks in until about 3/4 throttle and the main jet takes over from 3/4 to WOT.

 

[not2shabby]

Check the airbox, there might be a critter nest in there.

 

[wfooshee]

Well, since I described having the carbs off, I'm pretty sure the airbox got a good look-see. Oddly enough, the behavior is the same with the airbox open and the carb throats exposed to open air. You know, so I can reach them to pour gas down the throats.

And the previous post: If I knew pilot jet from needle from main jet, then I'd not be qualified to say I know **** about carbs.

So there it sits, battery tender connected.

I didn't actually soak the carbs in anything, because I'm really not sure what it's safe to do with them. What eats carb parts vs what just cleans them? I used some Sea Foam on the exposed metal bits as I disassembled those parts that I did, and once I even one time used Sea Foam instead of gas down the throat of the rear carb. Shoulda done that further from the garage! Bike was out in the driveway, just not very far out in the driveway, and I know Sea Foam makes dense white smoke, but . . . . I didn't expect it to be projected so far!

I also drained the tank, and the gas in it now has a bit of Sea Foam in it.

 

[Kevin_Ireland]

Are you getting fuel from the tank to the carbs?? Could be a blocked fuel line and I think there's a fuel filter in-line between the tank and the carbs. If he decides to sell it keep me in mind.

OK forget the the first line. I'll make your brother a good offer for the bike considering it doesn't run, of course......

 

[Aasland]

You need to get into the carbs. It might be sufficient to just pull the bowls and diaghrams and chokes and spray in every orifice you can find.

Or you may have to soak them. That's tougher, because, as you noted, the chemicals don't know the difference between good non-metal parts and varnish. To soak, you need to separate the carbs, the throttle plates, everything. You need to get the felt and nylon washers off. The diaphragms need to come off. Everything. Then dunk each carb body into a carb cleaning bucket made for dunking carbs, and let it sit for a day. Repeat with the second carb. Then spray every orifice with cleaner. It's a nasty stinky time consuming job with lots of small parts. Better to bring them to a shop and have them do it if you haven't done it before or don't want to learn.

 

[wfooshee]

Are you getting fuel from the tank to the carbs??

Yes. Both float bowls are filling up.

You need to get into the carbs. It might be sufficient to just pull the bowls and diaghrams and chokes and spray in every orifice you can find.

Or you may have to soak them. That's tougher, because, as you noted, the chemicals don't know the difference between good non-metal parts and varnish. To soak, you need to separate the carbs, the throttle plates, everything. You need to get the felt and nylon washers off. The diaphragms need to come off. Everything. Then dunk each carb body into a carb cleaning bucket made for dunking carbs, and let it sit for a day. Repeat with the second carb. Then spray every orifice with cleaner. It's a nasty stinky time consuming job with lots of small parts. Better to bring them to a shop and have them do it if you haven't done it before or don't want to learn.

Have done the first, but not the second. May have to take them to someone who knows how to do the second.

 

[ionbeam]

The pilot needle valve/jet is usually under a metal cap that needs to be pulled. Depending on the carbs there should be secondary needle/jet and main needle/jet. In many carbs the needles will have a clip or shim to control the needle action. It would help tons to see a carb job first before diving in.

 

[mk2wilson]

Post a picture of the carbs and we might be able to help.

 

[wfooshee]

Success!!!!

Yanked the carbs (again!) and got brave enough to dig a little deeper. Hey, not my bike! Right?

Couple pics of the fun:

Tank off, airbox open. Hoses at the back are two fuel feeds (one for each carb,) overflow and vent for the tank, and not visible (having dropped down into the frame) is the vacuum hose for the valve on the petcock.

Airbox off. Lookit the size o' them carb throats!! I don't know, but I'm told that these are the largest-diameter carbs ever put on a production bike.

Ta-dah!!!

Inverted, one of the floats removed. The culprit was the slotted tube on the right, feeding the main jet from the float bowl. I got it in my head to do something you don't supposed to do, and I used a length of solder to ream it out. On the front carb the solder pushed through and came out into the throat, but it didn't do so on the rear carb. A couple pops punching it in "firmly," and a bit of Seafoam down the tube, and then it came through.

Reassemble, try to start, and ...... nothing. No change. Front coughs and sputters, no heat on the rear pipe.

Poured some gas down the rear throat, started, and it ran that gas out and continued to try for a few seconds. Finally, after repeating that three times, it ran, I warmed it up, and I recorded proof:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDMAqKVHYZg

Took it down the street just a bit, keeping in mind the expired tag, and it's rough. I don't mean it runs bad, I mean you can tell for damn sure there's only two cylinders firing! Bike pulls really strong, my right wrist was hurting before I'd finished the first mile from the hug-the-tank position, and the thing backfires like crazy on overrun. I mean flame popping out the pipes backfire. Couldn't get it past 4th gear, but that was 65 (in a 45) so I slowed and spent the rest of the short 2 mile out-and-back in second.

So it's returned from the dead, and now sits in the garage on its tender, to be fired up and out-and-backed every week or two till its daddy can come get it.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Shweet...Good job. Now you should tag it for your brother and ride the snot out if it.

 

[majicmaker]

IT'S ALIVE!! Nice job Walt. :yahoo:

 

[wfooshee]

Hey, what're you doin' still up, old man???? It's nearly midnght down there.

Must be gettin' home from a date.

Or you brought a date home. No, then you wouldn't be on the forum. (Would you? :huh: )

 

[majicmaker]

Hey, what're you doin' still up, old man???? It's nearly midnght down there.

Must be gettin' home from a date.

Or you brought a date home. No, then you wouldn't be on the forum. (Would you? :huh: )

No! No!! And No!!! I'm a Night Owl.. Born and Raised in NYC. We stay up late and We wake up late. That's what keeps us Young!

 

[Kevin_Ireland]

You got it running! Now how am I going to low ball your brother? Damn it, I was already calculating on how to get it home. :glare:

 

[SQUEAL]

The back firing is a lean pop. You still have varnish in the carbs but it will get better. If you are running Seafoam in your fuel it will eventually resolve the issue. It needs to be gently run for a few miles. Most likely you will notice it running better as you ride it. That is proof that you NEVER leave fuel in a bike when stored for long periods. Or at least turn off the fuel and run the carbs dry and make sure the fuel in the tank has Sta-bil or something similar. I am not sure how well Sta-bil would work if we are talking years though. I have read that our new formulated fuels with ethanol have a shelf life of days not years. It gets worse with heat. With heat the volatiles crack off and leave all kinds of garbage behind. Startron enzyme fuel treatment is supposed to be the ticket. I have not tested it yet, but it is supposed to work minor miracles. You might run that tank with the Seafoam out and then give it a load of premium with some Startron in it. I bet that little piggy would run run run....Good luck. Looks like it would be fun in the twisties.

 

[BlackStar]

Sounds like you may still have a pilot circuit issue with the backfiring. Pilot jets are about the smallest orfice in the carb, so they tend to plug first, either fully or partially.