Toecutter
What would DoG do?
Some of my fellow Patriot Guard Riders are quite scary to be around in group formations....
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This is an excellent post...I couldn't agree more. +1!
It also goes for those who camp in the left lane of a 2+ lane highway, oblivious to basic traffic laws and common sense. No one goes faster than the slowest car in the left lane. :angry2: You can pass on the right, but that's 'Plan B'.
As has already been pointed out, not being aware of what's behind you (let alone having the courtesy to do something about it) reflects badly on your driving ability. Worrisome. :dribble:
It also goes for those who camp in the left lane of a 2+ lane highway, oblivious to basic traffic laws and common sense. No one goes faster than the slowest car in the left lane. :angry2: You can pass on the right, but that's 'Plan B'.
As has already been pointed out, not being aware of what's behind you (let alone having the courtesy to do something about it) reflects badly on your driving ability. Worrisome. :dribble:
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FJRPHIL
Member
+1 on your post. I am allways wondering if the riders you come up on even have a clue that you are there. I have on several ocassions followed the cruiser groups when they are out on a great road just putting along looking all cool on their bikes(scarey as hell) riding side by side like the dudes on the tv show chips did and never looking in their mirrors to see if anyone is behind them. When they finally notice you there they kinda panic and start going all over the lane. I just start shaking my head in disbelief and get the hell around them as soon as possible and put as much pavement between myself and them as fast as possible.
I had 1 ocassion in Idaho going to WFO passing 3 harley riders cruising along at 70 and I was going a bit above that and then this one guy had to challenge me by blowing by me at over 110mph. I thought WTF and had to put him in his place by pulling up next to him at 135mph. The look on has face was priceless. I guess all the posers out there think they own the entire road and they will use every bit of it so I just wait for the opening and blow by them. When someone does come up on me which is not that often I allways move over and motion them by which is the courtious thing to do.
I had 1 ocassion in Idaho going to WFO passing 3 harley riders cruising along at 70 and I was going a bit above that and then this one guy had to challenge me by blowing by me at over 110mph. I thought WTF and had to put him in his place by pulling up next to him at 135mph. The look on has face was priceless. I guess all the posers out there think they own the entire road and they will use every bit of it so I just wait for the opening and blow by them. When someone does come up on me which is not that often I allways move over and motion them by which is the courtious thing to do.
This weekend we had some interesting experiences in this regard. We were on a group ride of 12 bikes on Saturday (11 FJR's and one Gixxer) in NH, and then 11 FJRs on Sunday in VT. We tried to run about a "10 over" pace as much as possible, but with the great weather (for a change) there were lots of other folks out and about enjoying the mountain scenery. Several times we came up behind cars on the curvy 2-lane back roads where there were no good places for a dozen bikes to pass. Many of the locals with NH or VT plates would roll over to the shoulder at the next turn-out and let the group run on by and give us a wave. It was a joyful thing.
The few times we got really jammed up I would note the car would have MA or CT plates on it. I guess being in the daily rat race some people just lose all sense of courtesy.
We also came up behind several different small groups of motorcycle riders. Some of them would pull over to the right side of their lane encouraging a pass. I'd give them a friendly wave of thanks as we rolled by. But a few groups of bad *** cruisers would continue their putting along in formation, at or below the speed limit and expect that we would just stay behind them. First open road and they were in the mirrors ASAP.
Another funny thing I've observed with a lot the cruiser guys is that they slow way down for even the easiest of corners, then when you get to a straight you hear a big bunch of noise as they try and pick it back up. When you silently accelerate past them (at warp speed) they seem really shocked and upset when the see the bags.
:lol:
The few times we got really jammed up I would note the car would have MA or CT plates on it. I guess being in the daily rat race some people just lose all sense of courtesy.
We also came up behind several different small groups of motorcycle riders. Some of them would pull over to the right side of their lane encouraging a pass. I'd give them a friendly wave of thanks as we rolled by. But a few groups of bad *** cruisers would continue their putting along in formation, at or below the speed limit and expect that we would just stay behind them. First open road and they were in the mirrors ASAP.
Another funny thing I've observed with a lot the cruiser guys is that they slow way down for even the easiest of corners, then when you get to a straight you hear a big bunch of noise as they try and pick it back up. When you silently accelerate past them (at warp speed) they seem really shocked and upset when the see the bags.
:lol:
Gumby
Well-known member
Man on man do I feel your pain!!!! The sad part is I also ride a GL1800; I tried to attend a few GWRA rides and just absolutely was disgusted. Not that I propose to smash the sound barrier but it was a gaggle at best. I avoid group rides of more than three or four at all cost, I just feel more comfortable being with riders who have more an aggressive riding style.
Anyway don't judge al GL 1800 riders by the those you encountered.
Anyway don't judge al GL 1800 riders by the those you encountered.
palerider
Well-known member
Bungie
FrostBack #2 - IBA # 44620
I had ignored this thread for the past day or two thinking it was just common sense stuff. I generally don't like riding in a group and would much rather be off on my own given the choice.
That being said, this past weekend, I did a 300 mile ride with 1 Goldwing, whose owner has been riding for about 40 years, 1 HD whose owner hasn't been on a bike in the past 10 years, though he has about 20 years experience, and 1 new rider on a bitchin' little Wee.
Riding along a two lane, GW in front, HD, me, then Wee. First observation, WeeBoi was uncomfortable going +10 over the speed limit. Thats fine with me. Second observation, HDBoi despite having enough experience slowed down to BELOW speed limits on marked corners and swung wide on turns. He also seemed to like riding BESIDE people. GWBoi was doing good leading.
So, back to the two lane. Theirs about 5 cars stacked up behind us, we come up to a passing lane and I slow down 5 km/h. GWBoi and HDBoi increase their speed about 10km/h. Figgers. Get off the passing lane and they slow down to 'wait for us'. I fall back and take up the tail position putting WeeBoi ahead.
We end up with another 3 or 4 cars behind us. I slow down a bit, WeeBoi slows down a bit. Thinking I'll open up a gap to ALLOW THE FOLLOWING VEHICLES TO PASS SAFELY. Instead of trying to pass all 4 of us at once.
GWBoi slows down to 'keep the formation'. *******. All the cars play through by doing unsafe passes.
We stop for our first break and mention it GWBoi. He's adamant that we should keep the formation "I've been riding for 40 years and its kept me safe!!". Right. I suggest that if your gonna dawdle along up front it'd be safer riding in 2 groups of 2.. Deaf ears. Well it ends up happening anyway. I get paired up with HDBoi.
I tell him point blank that I use ALL the lane and when oncoming traffic is approaching, especially on a straightaway, I ride right.
The very first one we come to, HDBoi is riding in my blind spot, IN THE CENTER OF THE LANE. If I hit my brakes for any reason, he's gonna hit me. I point at his front wheel and 'wave him back'. He stays there. I squeeze him back. This must have happened 5 times before I got sick of him and left him for dust.
I'll stick to riding by myself thanks unless the rest of the group is likeminded and ride in CONCIOUS manner instead of going full zombie.
That being said, this past weekend, I did a 300 mile ride with 1 Goldwing, whose owner has been riding for about 40 years, 1 HD whose owner hasn't been on a bike in the past 10 years, though he has about 20 years experience, and 1 new rider on a bitchin' little Wee.
Riding along a two lane, GW in front, HD, me, then Wee. First observation, WeeBoi was uncomfortable going +10 over the speed limit. Thats fine with me. Second observation, HDBoi despite having enough experience slowed down to BELOW speed limits on marked corners and swung wide on turns. He also seemed to like riding BESIDE people. GWBoi was doing good leading.
So, back to the two lane. Theirs about 5 cars stacked up behind us, we come up to a passing lane and I slow down 5 km/h. GWBoi and HDBoi increase their speed about 10km/h. Figgers. Get off the passing lane and they slow down to 'wait for us'. I fall back and take up the tail position putting WeeBoi ahead.
We end up with another 3 or 4 cars behind us. I slow down a bit, WeeBoi slows down a bit. Thinking I'll open up a gap to ALLOW THE FOLLOWING VEHICLES TO PASS SAFELY. Instead of trying to pass all 4 of us at once.
GWBoi slows down to 'keep the formation'. *******. All the cars play through by doing unsafe passes.
We stop for our first break and mention it GWBoi. He's adamant that we should keep the formation "I've been riding for 40 years and its kept me safe!!". Right. I suggest that if your gonna dawdle along up front it'd be safer riding in 2 groups of 2.. Deaf ears. Well it ends up happening anyway. I get paired up with HDBoi.
I tell him point blank that I use ALL the lane and when oncoming traffic is approaching, especially on a straightaway, I ride right.
The very first one we come to, HDBoi is riding in my blind spot, IN THE CENTER OF THE LANE. If I hit my brakes for any reason, he's gonna hit me. I point at his front wheel and 'wave him back'. He stays there. I squeeze him back. This must have happened 5 times before I got sick of him and left him for dust.
I'll stick to riding by myself thanks unless the rest of the group is likeminded and ride in CONCIOUS manner instead of going full zombie.
wheatonFJR
...
Good discussion going on about manners and safe motorcycling...that's why for me a group of 3 or 4 is my optimum max.
I also hate to come up on large groups of slow riders. Then again, they probably hate me when I pass them. I am probably not a candidate for a motorcycle coach when it comes to passing.
It's probably good if I travel alone and don't get other people sucked into my wicked (read squiddly)ways.
I also hate to come up on large groups of slow riders. Then again, they probably hate me when I pass them. I am probably not a candidate for a motorcycle coach when it comes to passing.
It's probably good if I travel alone and don't get other people sucked into my wicked (read squiddly)ways.
kootenayguy
Member
When I come across a group of bikes or even a single bike I treat it just like it (or they) where a car. When its safe to pass in the opposing lane I pass. I would never ask another biker to give up their dominate position just like I would never ask another to give up theirs. One single mistake ends or changes a persons life, my wife is living (thankfully) proof of that. If going so fast is just so important to you that you cann't wait for a safe (and legal) spot to pass then maybe you should ride on the track. That being said, regardless if I am on my bike or in my truck, if I am holding people up I pull over, thats the polite thing to do.
Perhaps I am missing something in this thread or, this form is just not for me. I don't ride like that.
Perhaps I am missing something in this thread or, this form is just not for me. I don't ride like that.
I think that FJR riders in general are good group riders, at least all of the ones that I have been on rides with. There will always be some more capable riders that can ride faster, but they should be smart enough to keep it in check and know that a group ride is not the time and place to show off their squidlyness. You can ride in a big group at about 10 over the marked speed limit and still have plenty of time to look around and view the scenery. The key is spacing.
Spacing has to change when you are in a congested town vs. out on the curvy stuff. When riding in town, a tighter staggered "formation" (for lack of a better word) does two things: It gives you twice the time/distance from you to the 2nd bike ahead, the one that is riding directly in front of you, which allows you to see road hazards and stuff better than if you are riding single file at the same distances and it allows you to safely ride tight enough to keeps cars from pulling out and into the middle of the group. I like to keep 3-4 second between me and the guy in front of me, so about 2 seconds behind the guy ahead and to the side. That would mean that an entire group of, say 12 bikes would pass by in just over 20 seconds.
On the back roads, you are going to want to make use of the whole lane, so it's time to back off to at least 4 seconds behind the next rider in front of you. In situations where the roads are really twisty more space is better, to allow for braking (if necessary) and late apex cornering, etc. That means the same group is going to string out to about 45 seconds to a 1 minute total. You just need to be aware that with much more than 4 seconds between bikes you are more likely to get pulled out on, or left turned in front of, by a car.
Even riding at 10 over you are bound to be overtaken by solo bikers, sport bikes, Ferraris, etc. You just have to be willing to move aside and wave them on, knowing that some other day that may be you riding along and needing to pass the big group.
Spacing has to change when you are in a congested town vs. out on the curvy stuff. When riding in town, a tighter staggered "formation" (for lack of a better word) does two things: It gives you twice the time/distance from you to the 2nd bike ahead, the one that is riding directly in front of you, which allows you to see road hazards and stuff better than if you are riding single file at the same distances and it allows you to safely ride tight enough to keeps cars from pulling out and into the middle of the group. I like to keep 3-4 second between me and the guy in front of me, so about 2 seconds behind the guy ahead and to the side. That would mean that an entire group of, say 12 bikes would pass by in just over 20 seconds.
On the back roads, you are going to want to make use of the whole lane, so it's time to back off to at least 4 seconds behind the next rider in front of you. In situations where the roads are really twisty more space is better, to allow for braking (if necessary) and late apex cornering, etc. That means the same group is going to string out to about 45 seconds to a 1 minute total. You just need to be aware that with much more than 4 seconds between bikes you are more likely to get pulled out on, or left turned in front of, by a car.
Even riding at 10 over you are bound to be overtaken by solo bikers, sport bikes, Ferraris, etc. You just have to be willing to move aside and wave them on, knowing that some other day that may be you riding along and needing to pass the big group.
palerider
Well-known member
I'm not sure what you're point is, so I'll try and articulate what, at least for me, is the core of the issue here being discussed. One of the reasons I give up some of the comforts of a car (like air conditioning) and choose as my main transportation a motorcycle and choose to live in California where I can lane-split is so I won't be held up by mindless, unconcious retreads. That these mindless, unconcious retreads should be fellow bikers, whom I (sometimes mistakenly) assume are and whom I simply expect to be more alert than car drivers is annoying. That it would be easy for them to get out of my way and that there is no reason for them to hold me up (other than that they are mindless, unconcious retreads) is doubly annoying. That these mindless, unconcious retreads are, by their mindless, unconcious behavior, irritating car drivers, a group whose feelings I want to encourage to be benign to motorcyclists, is triply annoying.
I'm not fast on the bike. In fact I'm slow. BUT THAT'S WHY I PULL OVER TO LET FASTER DRIVERS BY. I do the same thing in a car if I'm holding other drivers, car or bike, up.
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kootenayguy
Member
I understand lane splitting is legal in California. Its not here, regardless, I pass (and expect others to) in the opposing lane when its safe. If I am in a car or on a bike, if I am slowing people up, I pull over (and expect others to) and let them pass. Getting everyone home in the same shape they left in is the name of the game
FJRocket
Doctor Throckenstein !!!
Well there you go! You don't HAVE to share your lane, especially if you don't feel comfortable or safe doing it. But at least you are willing to pull over and let others pass. That's the idea. You ride in your comfort zone and let's not try to screw each others enjoyment up. And above all, we want to live to ride another day.
I've ridden with many sport bike riders and sport tourers, some ex racers to be sure, that can pass me (with my consent) on the inside of a curve, on the outside of a curve or in a straight in my lane safely with ease and aplomb. I wave 'em on and off they go. I actually think it's pretty cool to watch them go. They like it, I like it. Everybody is happy! (But by golly don't EVEN ride in my blind spot or try to stay next to me.. that ain't even happenin... I'll shut that **** down right now. I digress...)
There's always going to be oblivious dolts out there. And I'm not suggesting tangling with them. But I don't see where any experienced, cautious riders can't share a lane safely.
And when you kids at EOM come up behind me and want to play through, if you don't act like total squids, you can bet that I'll wave you by. Just remember that I did, and the first beer is on you at the end of the day! :good:
I've ridden with many sport bike riders and sport tourers, some ex racers to be sure, that can pass me (with my consent) on the inside of a curve, on the outside of a curve or in a straight in my lane safely with ease and aplomb. I wave 'em on and off they go. I actually think it's pretty cool to watch them go. They like it, I like it. Everybody is happy! (But by golly don't EVEN ride in my blind spot or try to stay next to me.. that ain't even happenin... I'll shut that **** down right now. I digress...)
There's always going to be oblivious dolts out there. And I'm not suggesting tangling with them. But I don't see where any experienced, cautious riders can't share a lane safely.
And when you kids at EOM come up behind me and want to play through, if you don't act like total squids, you can bet that I'll wave you by. Just remember that I did, and the first beer is on you at the end of the day! :good:
Karmak
Well-known member
Thats is why I watch my 6 when I pass-I had a FZ pull way to the right of my lane last week as if to let me pass, but didn't wave me by...a trap? Sure enough, he lets me get about 20 yards ahead and nails it. I see him in my rear view and hit it. He lost nerve somewhere over 100 and faded away (I had my FJ). I've had Harleys do this often, but they usually don't bait people on purpose (they don't pull over at all)-just get nicked off at being passed. I venture to say many of us with the FJR cruise a bit on the higher side and it's aggravating to have to deal with these games when you are just "going about business."
>I have had to "thread" my way through flocks of Harleys at times, sometimes riding in parts of their formations until the next opportunity to pass comes up. I could care less if they like it, or not.
>Yesterday I was following a Harley formation (15 or so) for miles, but didn't push it because they had a couple of cages in front of them who obviously wouldn't let them pass. They actually were going pretty good on the straights and long sweepers-I found it odd that the cars in front of them (2) weren't intimidated enough to let all that leather, tats and cacophony pass!
>Saturday on a 200+ mile run up North (Adirondacks), only one cage pulled over a bit for me-unusual in the respect that even that doesn't happen often.
>Most bizarre-I finally passed a beat up pick-up pulling a boat that had been holding up a line of traffic for miles at 45-55. When I passed, he got pissed and tried to catch me, actually hitting 80 or so!!!
Auburn
Well-known member
That's why when I pass them, I like to get a little distance from them so they don't get the idea somehow that I want to play. Last thing I want is some ***** that I don't know trying the pace me through the twisties. That becomes unsafe for everyone involved. If I see them trying to do that. I find a place to turn off and let them go. They can chase their own shadow.
FJRPHIL
Member
I agree with getting distance between them. I had another incident in Idaho north of Cour d' Alene with a couple riding 2 up on (again) harley's. Virtually the same senario passed them and one of the 2 just had to show his ***** on the back that he had a bad *** bike. He passed me doing about 100 and I let him get about 1000' ahead of me and then I just dropped a gear and blew by him in the 130 range only this time I purposely got a little close to him just to scare the crap out of him. I guess it worked since I never saw them again in my mirrors. I bet his ***** was smacking him on the back of his head and giving him some choice words.
I used to ride in alot of group rides and have stopped doing them because of some terrible riders almost killing other riders with there stupid macho **** that they have to pull to impress themselves. I prefer to go single or with 1 or maybe 2 other riders that know what the hell they are doing.
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Toecutter
What would DoG do?
Oh, the irony.
I kid, I do that kinda stuff too, and shy away from group rides....
:drinks:
Bugnatr
Well-known member
It ain't just the Wingnuts and HD boys.
What really sucks is when it's a guy on a FJR who doesn't know he has mirrors. Had it happen more than once on Hwy 49, I just point at my mirrors when I pass em'.
What really sucks is when it's a guy on a FJR who doesn't know he has mirrors. Had it happen more than once on Hwy 49, I just point at my mirrors when I pass em'.
Toecutter
What would DoG do?
palerider
Well-known member
Yamaha, which we hear is not doing well, could save some money on FJR production by replacing the glass in the stock mirrors with pictures of elbows.
