Shifting issue identified, culprit found

[Constant Mesh]

If you had an AE there'd be no question -- they'd have to fix it free of charge while in warranty. May be one plus for owning an AE.

 

[dcarver]

Wow Scott, I am very impressed. Major job, you are fearless.

May I ask what were the symptoms that led to the tear down?

Jumping out of gear? Missed shifts? Hard to find neutral?

 

[ponyfool]

Wow Scott, I am very impressed. Major job, you are fearless.

No, not fearless, desperate! Desperation leads to innovation. I couldn't afford the dealer's BS.

May I ask what were the symptoms that led to the tear down?

I just wanted to see what it looked like.

Jumping out of gear? Missed shifts? Hard to find neutral?

But seriously, every time I went into 2nd gear, either from 1st or 3rd, and put the engine under even a mild load (up a hill, accelerate, etc), it would kick out of gear, re-engage, kick out, re-engage, etc for about 1 to 10 seconds before finally engaging. I now know that it was the engagement dogs partially engaging, disengaging, and catching on the next engagement area.
So, from my very lay person's point of view, it appeared I somehow got a bent shift fork, and that lead to the engagement dogs wearing, which lead to the, at first, sporadic skipping described above. As they got worse wear, it became more frequent.

 

[Badcat]

Scott,

What's the status on the parts you need to finish the repair? We are all watching and waiting with great anticipation. :clapping:

Burk

 

[dcarver]

Wow Scott, I am very impressed. Major job, you are fearless.

No, not fearless, desperate! Desperation leads to innovation. I couldn't afford the dealer's BS.

May I ask what were the symptoms that led to the tear down?

I just wanted to see what it looked like.

Jumping out of gear? Missed shifts? Hard to find neutral?

But seriously, every time I went into 2nd gear, either from 1st or 3rd, and put the engine under even a mild load (up a hill, accelerate, etc), it would kick out of gear, re-engage, kick out, re-engage, etc for about 1 to 10 seconds before finally engaging. I now know that it was the engagement dogs partially engaging, disengaging, and catching on the next engagement area.
So, from my very lay person's point of view, it appeared I somehow got a bent shift fork, and that lead to the engagement dogs wearing, which lead to the, at first, sporadic skipping described above. As they got worse wear, it became more frequent.

Thank you for the symptom report. My 60k 06 A model will sometimes disengage 1st in a downhill corner after downshifting from 2nd. I've learned to 'double shift' down into 1st to be sure I don't hit that neutral at the exact moment I need engine decel.
Once again PF, I applaud you. As one feeling intimidated to simply remove the plastic for a freaking valve check, here you are taking the girl down to parade rest...

BTW, great fotos! I had a DT250 with similar looking dogs and shift fork. On the DT, however, I could easily, visually, determine the shift fork was bent. From your photo I couldn't make a comparison. In real life, can you see deformation in the shift fork?

..and I have thoughts about the 'loaner program', but I'll keep them to myself. I hope to see you at NAFO and will contribute to the 'PF had the most to do before he got here at NAFO' program.

dcarver

 

[ponyfool]

Scott,
What's the status on the parts you need to finish the repair? We are all watching and waiting with great anticipation. :clapping:

Burk

I received 95% of my parts today, the rest are back ordered. The ones I am missing are the lower shift fork, lower shift fork guide, 2nd gear wheel and 5th gear wheel.

I am going to a training next week so I can't work on it until 4th of July weekend anyway. I figure as long as the parts are in by July 10 or so, I'll still be good to go for NAFO. That should give me more than enough time to have it together and tested before a long trip.

 

[madmike2]

I'm crossing my fingers for you, Scott, and sending positive energy Northward.

 

[Ric in Sac]

PF -- I'm impressed. You are hereby promoted to "Stallion Stud" for taking on such a project. :clapping:

 

[jeremybhm]

PF -- I'm impressed. You are hereby promoted to "Stallion Stud" for taking on such a project. :clapping:

Ditto, you should get a set of those gnarly steel balls guys hang from their truck and put a set on the FJR

 

[brazos parker]

I've been following this thread w/ great interest. Mostly because I know my mechanically-challenged brain would never have the confidence/skills/whatever to tackle a project like this. I congratulate you, Sir, for taking this on. And, I'm wishing you a most excellent conclusion to the project.

 

[hast66]

Dear Ponyfool

I'm afraid I'm facing quite the same problem. hiccup in 2th and popping out of 5th :angry2:

The owner of the shop where I bought it second hand has closed it but I found a former employee to help me with this.

Could please repost the pictures in the beginning of the tread.

Thank You

Stefan

 

[ionbeam]

Dear Ponyfool...Could please repost the pictures in the beginning of the tread...

This thread is over three years old and l believe that life has taken 'fool in other directions, so I don't expect to see the pictures reappear. He did check in on 9/11 so there may still be a glimmer of hope.

 

[rogdeb]

<!--quoteo(post=437167:date=Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM:name=dcarver)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dcarver @ Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=437167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow Scott, I am very impressed. Major job, you are fearless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, not fearless, desperate! Desperation leads to innovation. I couldn't afford the dealer's BS.

<!--quoteo(post=437167:date=Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM:name=dcarver)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dcarver @ Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=437167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->May I ask what were the symptoms that led to the tear down?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I just wanted to see what it looked like.

<!--quoteo(post=437167:date=Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM:name=dcarver)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dcarver @ Jun 18 2008, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=437167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Jumping out of gear? Missed shifts? Hard to find neutral?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->But seriously, every time I went into 2nd gear, either from 1st or 3rd, and put the engine under even a mild load (up a hill, accelerate, etc), it would kick out of gear, re-engage, kick out, re-engage, etc for about 1 to 10 seconds before finally engaging. I now know that it was the engagement dogs partially engaging, disengaging, and catching on the next engagement area.

So, from my very lay person's point of view, it appeared I somehow got a bent shift fork, and that lead to the engagement dogs wearing, which lead to the, at first, sporadic skipping described above. As they got worse wear, it became more frequent.

Exactly the problem I'm having !! You think if I studied some pics (if I could find any) long enough I'd absorb the knowledge to fix mine

 

[03HiYoSilver]

I think these links may help:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=105278

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625&view=findpost&p=446487

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625&view=findpost&p=446712

 

[rogdeb]

I think these links may help:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=105278

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625&view=findpost&p=446487

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625&view=findpost&p=446712

Very few pics, but lots of reading ......................... brave guy that Ponyfool! I'm not in his league .. dealership for me I think.

 

[Falko]

I kind of wonder if this type of problem is related to the sticky clutch syndrome many experience. Until it breaks in (or you clean the plates) it shifts hard.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Dear Ponyfool...Could please repost the pictures in the beginning of the tread...

This thread is over three years old and l believe that life has taken 'fool in other directions, so I don't expect to see the pictures reappear. He did check in on 9/11 so there may still be a glimmer of hope.

I have saved the Pictures, 4 of them, let me know where I can send them so they can be viewed for future use.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

I successfully split the cases and removed the main drive shaft, shift drum assembly, and transmission this afternoon. Upon inspecting the parts, I can clearly see damage to the shift fork and gear dogs. So far, there hasn't been any "holy shit, now what?" issues. It's been pretty straightforward. Let's hope I think that when I am putting it back together.

See for yourself:

<b>Click Image to Enlarge</b>

<b>CASES SUCCESSFULLY SPLIT

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3152.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3152small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3153.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3153small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

DRIVE AXLE ASSEMBLY

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3156.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3156small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

DAMAGED SHIFT FORK

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3159.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3159small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

DAMAGED GEAR DOG

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3161.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3161small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

ANOTHER VIEW OF DAMAGED GEAR DOG (All dogs on this gear (2nd) have similar wear)

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3162.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3162small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

DAMAGED GEAR (WHERE DOG ENGAGES) and DAMAGED DOG</b>

<a href="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3163.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.ponyfool.com/pictures/fjr/engine_removal/IMG_3163small.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

UPDATE: The job is finished. Outlined in this thread: <a href="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625" target="_blank">https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=106625</a>

 

[rogdeb]

Dear Ponyfool...Could please repost the pictures in the beginning of the tread...

This thread is over three years old and l believe that life has taken 'fool in other directions, so I don't expect to see the pictures reappear. He did check in on 9/11 so there may still be a glimmer of hope.

I have saved the Pictures, 4 of them, let me know where I can send them so they can be viewed for future use.

Thanks 03HiYoSilver Copied and printed the info for my perusal. Hope it helps me at least understand

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Thanks 03HiYoSilver Copied and printed the info for my perusal. Hope it helps me at least understand

Your Welcome...here is a Closer Look at the Shift Fork: