Shifting the AE

[tripletango]

First, I agree 100% with the Ferrari scenario as well as the Airbus computer statement.

The Airbus has taken the pilot out of the loop if there are any computer failures. Boeing on the other hand have kept him with an over ride capability if things go **** up. Boeing airplanes are inherently safer because of that.

Re the motorcycle issue. The brain is indeed very adept at handling the complexities of manual shifting of the clutch and I enjoy riding my MZ Scorpion tour but even that Yamaha gear box shifts down on occasion unexpectedly if I have not selected 5th properly.

The brain workload goes down with regard to shifting a Bergman to get groceries and I never had an issue with cvt if I remember that they are always ready to go with a twist of the wrist. Hell you can even change gears on the thing through computer driven ratios manually or shift the whole gear range down for extra power with the push of a button. This is similar to the Aprilia Mana.

Then we got the AE, nothing like a cvt.

The work load on the AE shifts focus to having to remember it is nothing like a cvt and is very different to a manual clutched box. A cvt if the throttle is twisted takes off very smoothly. The AE in first gear takes off hard and fast when you open the throttle and slows down almost as fast when the throttle is closed in first! The clutch does not disengage until the revs fall below 1500. However unlike a cvt you can select neutral.

When you got that down you are in good shape. BTW I have had no trouble with the bike in 20,000 miles if you follow the cardinal rule to change down before you stop. Trying to get from 5th to 1st after you have stopped is a pain in the ass. If you get caught in a high gear at a stoplight and it turns green you will either fry the clutch taking off at a crawl or try to down shift quickly while moving off and get all kinds of crashing noises from the box as it spins to find the gear you want and then when it engages you accelerate like mad. Wo betide you if you are close to the car in front as it bangs into gear and do not react quick enough to throttle back and brake quickly.

This is by far the most difficult of all three to ride unless you get it right. The bike has nothing to do with your problems. You create your own on an AE. !! Treat it right and it is a wonderfully easy bike to ride but it takes time to learn so beware the first few 1000 miles as all that is ingrained in riding a standard clutched bike is hard to ignore on the AE and will result in problems for you for sure

 

[Bellerophon]

The brain is indeed very adept at handling the complexities of manual shifting of the clutch and I enjoy riding my MZ Scorpion tour but even that Yamaha gear box shifts down on occasion unexpectedly if I have not selected 5th properly.

I still don't get what all the hubub is about. The AE is a manual transmission, with the same transmission and clutch as the A model. The only difference is the driver does not pull a clutch lever, a servo motor does it for you. It's the same with the gear change. The driver chooses when to shift with either the paddle or the foot shifter, a servo motor obeys the riders command and selects the next gear either up or down as the rider chooses. If your bike shifts down unexpectedly there is clearly a fault and you should take it in to the dealer immediately. Also if you are unable to return to 1st at a stop, even if you stop in 5th gear, there is something amiss in your transmission.

While I only have 1200 miles on my month old AE and I cannot speak to the longevity of the servo clutch/trans arrangement, if there were any real issues with them there are plenty of high mile 06s that would be having trouble by now. I only know of Shane Stump's bad clutch servo. Clicky If anyone else has had troubles it'd be good to know.

 

[dbx]

Nay sayers tend to pick some single area where their old tech might prove superior, and claim that as some victory. Even though the new tech is probably better in 95% of the other situations.
Your argument sounds exactly like every other new technology vs old technology. Manual SLR cameras vs Automatic or whatever. Let's see, over the years how many people have said 'WILL NEVER BE BETTER THAN' concerning Fuel Injection vs Carburators, ABS vs Non ABS, (Them ABS systems'll KILL ya I tell ya!), Liquid vs Air cooling, and before that Electric start vs Kick start.

I bought my FJR used, and it just happened to be an AE model. I wasn't looking for it, wouldn't have paid more for it, and in fact was quite concerned about it and asked about it here. I acknowledge I'd never have considered a new one of off the showroom floor. Now after a few thousand miles, I think it's the coolest thing about my FJR. I just love it. I love it when in traffic and stoplights, I love it on my last few miles from the house when I'm screaming through the gears 6-9000 rpm. I have not had not a single missed shift, or false neutral, or had to 'find' neutral. I know some will claim never to have experienced such things, but I live in the real world and know that we all do. It's just a cool thing, I'd certainly buy it again. I really don't know of ANY instance where I thought, "I wish I had a clutch on here".

I basically like bikes, pretty much of all sort, and rarely criticize what anyone else rides, regardless of what it is, Harley, Bmw, whatever you like is cool. I like bikes. So I surprised that so many here feel the need to be so vocal against it, in straightforward threads where people are just trying to get some information about their own motorcycle. I especially find it odd for a group that's already riding a bike with all this sophistication on it, I mean, I can see a guy on a old kickstart Harley giving me hell, but another FJR rider? I don't know, like a manual Corvette owner laughing at a auto trans Corvette owner. Funny, I feel like more of a ***** using my electric windshield than the click shift.

Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Wee Willy]

Your argument sounds exactly like every other new technology vs old technology. Manual SLR cameras vs Automatic or whatever. Let's see, over the years how many people have said 'WILL NEVER BE BETTER THAN' concerning Fuel Injection vs Carburators, ABS vs Non ABS, (Them ABS systems'll KILL ya I tell ya!), Liquid vs Air cooling, and before that Electric start vs Kick start.

Please go read the post again...carefully. The point is really about how difficult it is to make automation look, smell and taste as good as (or better than) manual. It CAN be done...we've done it on the F-22 and the F-35. Nothing today even comes close to what these aircraft can do. But the FJR has a ways to go...more engineering time & development $$$'s. We may not see it happen because of the development constraints at Yamaha. People who, like I, demand shifting performance will not like all the characteristics of the AE. Other riders will find it completely satisfactory.

Cheers,

W2

 

[reddog]

Uh what? The ae took me all of about 2blocks to be comfortable with. personaly when I come to stops I brake normaly and as you come to a stop you can ease

off slightly to be smooth. As for the way the Ae upshift, well it seems to me about as fast between gears as any of the 12 bikes Ive owned that were manualy clutched. The only differnce to me is when you down shift rapidly with your foot it just does not seem to be able click off three or four quick downshifts before you stick it off in a turn, although it does seem better if you just flick the trigger shifter forward with your finger. But Wee Willy if you dont own one or have never spent some time on one I would not consider you to be qualified to judge the performance of one. This was not meant to sound offensive but it is my random thought

Reddog

 

[Wee Willy]

Uh what? The ae took me all of about 2blocks to be comfortable with. personaly when I come to stops I brake normaly and as you come to a stop you can easeoff slightly to be smooth. As for the way the Ae upshift, well it seems to me about as fast between gears as any of the 12 bikes Ive owned that were manualy clutched. The only differnce to me is when you down shift rapidly with your foot it just does not seem to be able click off three or four quick downshifts before you stick it off in a turn, although it does seem better if you just flick the trigger shifter forward with your finger. But Wee Willy if you dont own one or have never spent some time on one I would not consider you to be qualified to judge the performance of one. This was not meant to sound offensive but it is my random thought

Reddog

No offense taken. And keep in mind that I'm not at all against the AE or those who care to ride it. My only point is, and I'll say it a 3rd time, that it won't be as easy to manage as a manual across the entire spectrum and especially if your pushing it hard. It's just not there yet IMHO. Know that I have ridden one and found that it could be managed but you had to be ready to give some small things up. Some folks don't mind it. Just happens I do. 'Nuff said.

Cheers,

W2

 

[Floridave]

Know that I have ridden one and found that it could be managed but you had to be ready to give some small things up.

Ah yes, like the ability to shift directly into 1st when cruising at highway speed? The fact that a computer might stop you from doing that was your original hijack into this thread where a guy's just offering up some tips for better managing a bike with features you haven't ridden enough to learn.

Like everything, the AE is different, give something up, gain something else. You can launch from a stoplight faster, but I can be in gear and reach over with my left hand and hit your kill switch before we launch. You can cruise the boulevard at walking speed and rev your engine REAL loud, I can cruise the boulevard at walking speed and wave/high five/slap chicks on the ass with my left hand. ( OK, I'm sure neither of us do either of those things, I'm entering Harley bikerfest territory here)

Honestly, most of that 'control' you think you've given up with the AE really is still there in your throttle hand and brake.

If the bike shifts poorly, you did it wrong, simple as that. Clutch or AE.

Not trying to convince you or anyone that either is better or that you should like the AE, I just don't get the hijacks/criticisms on any AE thread that comes up, from people that have never owned one, and don't really like the concept.

 

[Spook]

Know that I have ridden one and found that it could be managed but you had to be ready to give some small things up.

Ah yes, like the ability to shift directly into 1st when cruising at highway speed? The fact that a computer might stop you from doing that was your original hijack into this thread where a guy's just offering up some tips for better managing a bike with features you haven't ridden enough to learn.

Like everything, the AE is different, give something up, gain something else. You can launch from a stoplight faster, but I can be in gear and reach over with my left hand and hit your kill switch before we launch. You can cruise the boulevard at walking speed and rev your engine REAL loud, I can cruise the boulevard at walking speed and wave/high five/slap chicks on the ass with my left hand. ( OK, I'm sure neither of us do either of those things, I'm entering Harley bikerfest territory here)

Honestly, most of that 'control' you think you've given up with the AE really is still there in your throttle hand and brake.

If the bike shifts poorly, you did it wrong, simple as that. Clutch or AE.

Not trying to convince you or anyone that either is better or that you should like the AE, I just don't get the hijacks/criticisms on any AE thread that comes up, from people that have never owned one, and don't really like the concept.

For the same reason every time a HD is brought up some one puts down the bike or the riders.

 

[2006FJR]

Nay sayers tend to pick some single area where their old tech might prove superior, and claim that as some victory. Even though the new tech is probably better in 95% of the other situations.
Your argument sounds exactly like every other new technology vs old technology. Manual SLR cameras vs Automatic or whatever. Let's see, over the years how many people have said 'WILL NEVER BE BETTER THAN' concerning Fuel Injection vs Carburators, ABS vs Non ABS, (Them ABS systems'll KILL ya I tell ya!), Liquid vs Air cooling, and before that Electric start vs Kick start.

I bought my FJR used, and it just happened to be an AE model. I wasn't looking for it, wouldn't have paid more for it, and in fact was quite concerned about it and asked about it here. I acknowledge I'd never have considered a new one of off the showroom floor. Now after a few thousand miles, I think it's the coolest thing about my FJR. I just love it. I love it when in traffic and stoplights, I love it on my last few miles from the house when I'm screaming through the gears 6-9000 rpm. I have not had not a single missed shift, or false neutral, or had to 'find' neutral. I know some will claim never to have experienced such things, but I live in the real world and know that we all do. It's just a cool thing, I'd certainly buy it again. I really don't know of ANY instance where I thought, "I wish I had a clutch on here".

I basically like bikes, pretty much of all sort, and rarely criticize what anyone else rides, regardless of what it is, Harley, Bmw, whatever you like is cool. I like bikes. So I surprised that so many here feel the need to be so vocal against it, in straightforward threads where people are just trying to get some information about their own motorcycle. I especially find it odd for a group that's already riding a bike with all this sophistication on it, I mean, I can see a guy on a old kickstart Harley giving me hell, but another FJR rider? I don't know, like a manual Corvette owner laughing at a auto trans Corvette owner. Funny, I feel like more of a ***** using my electric windshield than the click shift.

Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[SIZE=12pt]+2[/SIZE]

 

[Wee Willy]

Heh...the responses here are kinda like the ones you get by calling someone's baby ugly.

If you have an AE...enjoy it. And I hope you don't ever have any mechanical problems with it. See you out there...

Cheers,

W2