Shorai Battery - not good in cold

[SkooterG]

Cranking till they go flat is the nail in the coffin-big batteries are hard enough to save when dead but the little ones, flatten -em once and they'll barely hold a charge even after a long ride.

Not my experience. In fact I had one of those weird FJR 'no-start' issues last week and cranked my battery down DEAD trying to get it to fire. Stuck it on the trickle charger, came back a few hours later and the battery spun and she fired right up. Still using that several year old battery.

While I am no battery expert, I do agree that any severe discharge of the battery is not good, and when that occurs multiple times that is VERY BAD. And no doubt that starting in very cold temps like you do is extremely hard on a battery.

 

[Rider_FJR]

Interesting information. It appears that Ballistic Batteries also make a battery similar to Shorai.

https://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/12cell.php

https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/li-ion-motorcycle-battery/shorai-vs-ballistic-li-ion-motorcycle-battery.htm

 

[ionbeam]

... It appears that Ballistic Batteries also make a battery similar to Shorai...

Ballistic.

 

[Pepperell]

Hi! My name is Carl and I am a Shorai early adopter.

There! I've said it. I believe I'm LightSider # 2. Actually, I'm quite pleased with the battery so far (since I bought it last February, I think). Now that the bike will be parked for a month or three at a time, I'll get some idea of how well it tolerates benign neglect. I don't plan on using a trickle charger, although I'll probably disconnect the battery from the bike at some point. The bike lives in my attached garage that seldom gets below 40 degrees here in balmy Massachusetts. I've had it parked at work a couple of times where the temp dropped into the mid/high 20's and the bike spun over slightly slower, but not any slower than the original Yuasa did.

What I'd like to do is add maybe a momentary switch that would "fool" the headlights on in advance of starting the motor, thus "warming up" the battery to higher voltage, per Shorai's suggestion. Could anyone (Alan? ) give me pointers on how/where to connect this up? Thanks in advance!

 

[Fred W]

What I'd like to do is add maybe a momentary switch that would "fool" the headlights on in advance of starting the motor, thus "warming up" the battery to higher voltage, per Shorai's suggestion. Could anyone (Alan? ) give me pointers on how/where to connect this up? Thanks in advance!

Hey early adopter. Here's how I'd do it:

Whenever the key is switched on there is +12V applied to headlight relay #1 (that's the on/off relay) via a Red/Yellow wire. The other side of the relay's coil is a Yellow/black wire that runs down to the ECU module. The ECU grounds that wire only after it senses the engine is running.

You could cut that yellow/black wire and install a SPDT switch with the wire going off to the relay in the center (common) terminal, the yellow/black wire going off to the ECU on one side terminal (for normal operation) and a wire running off to a frame ground on the alternate side. This would be the battery warm-up position.

Let me know if you need more help finding the yellow/black wire.

 

[RaYzerman19]

can't trickle charge. the apartment carports are not attached and have no power outlets-and the bike is not enclosed or even really well under cover so exposed to the elements. My batteries die out in the winter when it gets into and stays in the 30's overnight. If I don't ride for two days there's no way the bike will start on a cold morning. Cranking till they go flat is the nail in the coffin-big batteries are hard enough to save when dead but the little ones, flatten -em once and they'll barely hold a charge even after a long ride. It's nothing to do with current draw unfortunately-the stock AGM is barely sufficient to crank the big bike over, leaves nothing over for diminished winter capacity.

This sounds like your real problem. The experts say when lead-acid batteries discharge to 50% or less a half dozen times, sulphation will occur and some of that is not reversable. 50% discharge is somewhere around 12.4-12.5 volts..... when you realize that, you'll understand the necessity to have a battery tender. No reason a battery well cared for won't last 4-5 years. In your case you should remove it and take it to a source of power where you can keep it charged.

 

[Bounce]

I don't like to be a 'beta-tester' and adopter of early technology... (Hence why I couldn't pull the trigger on a 2003 FJR)

by 2003, it'd already been around for 2 years (3rd year of production worldwide).

 

[Phugedaboudet]

it's a daily commuter. Except for rare weekends where I don't have to go anywhere. I wasn't about to pull the battery out after work every Friday and bolt it back in every Tuesday morning, or have to rush out with tools if I need to go somewhere and take the bike but the battery is out. When it got cold enough to cause the battery to flatten even when ridden the day before, I'd have been pulling the battery nightly and stuffing it back in each morning before work. Not a lot of fun at 5am when it's in the 30's.

With no place to plug in a tender, that would be the only option. Or be stuck buying a new battery yearly. Hopefully this new chemistry will get me around that. So far, so good. We'll see what happens this time next year.

can't trickle charge. the apartment carports are not attached and have no power outlets-and the bike is not enclosed or even really well under cover so exposed to the elements. My batteries die out in the winter when it gets into and stays in the 30's overnight. If I don't ride for two days there's no way the bike will start on a cold morning. Cranking till they go flat is the nail in the coffin-big batteries are hard enough to save when dead but the little ones, flatten -em once and they'll barely hold a charge even after a long ride. It's nothing to do with current draw unfortunately-the stock AGM is barely sufficient to crank the big bike over, leaves nothing over for diminished winter capacity.

This sounds like your real problem. The experts say when lead-acid batteries discharge to 50% or less a half dozen times, sulphation will occur and some of that is not reversable. 50% discharge is somewhere around 12.4-12.5 volts..... when you realize that, you'll understand the necessity to have a battery tender. No reason a battery well cared for won't last 4-5 years. In your case you should remove it and take it to a source of power where you can keep it charged.

 

[Rider_FJR]

I ran into an interesting issue last night.

I had the FJR in the garage since November 1st, with Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 in the bike.

Last night I went to start the bike, it turned once, twice and third time, it was nothing. The digital display did not turn on on the first time. I took the battery out and I only had 3 AMP showing on volt meter.

I read somewhere that you can even store your battery in the fridge, so if that is the case, why did my battery show such low power?

 

[Pepperell]

Thanks Fred!

 

[SkooterG]

I ran into an interesting issue last night.

I had the FJR in the garage since November 1st, with Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 in the bike.

Last night I went to start the bike, it turned once, twice and third time, it was nothing. The digital display did not turn on on the first time. I took the battery out and I only had 3 AMP showing on volt meter.

I read somewhere that you can even store your battery in the fridge, so if that is the case, why did my battery show such low power?

Well that sure as hell isn't very encouraging. Glad I went the traditional lead-acid route recently. And do you mean 3v as in volts? Not sure how you would have measured 3 amps?!?!

These batteries are supposed to 'store' better than conventional batteries so I would contact Shorai with your issue and see what they say. Also, from what I thought I read on their website if one of their batteries does get discharged, it is now kaput! As in dead. As in no way to bring it back from the dead. So you may be SOL. It will be interesting to see if you can bring it back.

Are you sure you didn't leave some electrical accessory on?

 

[SkooterG]

I don't like to be a 'beta-tester' and adopter of early technology... (Hence why I couldn't pull the trigger on a 2003 FJR)

by 2003, it'd already been around for 2 years (3rd year of production worldwide).

Yes, and I was reading the international FJROwners forum and was very concerned about the Aussie owners complaining about heat. Living in Arizona and having my Kawi C10 at the time frying my legs through jeans that was an issue for me before plunking down my $10Gs of hard-earned money (at least at that time). But after them being here a while, and also the excitement of seeing them in the flesh so to speak, I was ready for one. Actually almost bought a few slightly used 03s before putting my PDP deposit down on an 04 when their release was announced.

 

[Rider_FJR]

Shorai says:

No more dead batteries. Holds charge for one year without maintenance.

I had my Shorai 18v in the bike for last 2 and half months, would that drain the battery? Maybe I should have removed it and stored it in the house for the winter.

 

[RossKean]

Shorai says:

No more dead batteries. Holds charge for one year without maintenance.

I had my Shorai 18v in the bike for last 2 and half months, would that drain the battery? Maybe I should have removed it and stored it in the house for the winter.

Maybe it would hold a charge for a year if there was no draw on it. With the key off, there is a small constant drain on your battery. Keeps the clock running and the trip odometers set. Not sure if the ECU uses power or not. I have no idea how many watts it takes to run this stuff but it will eventually draw down the battery. I would at least unhook the battery if you are expecting downtime of more than a week or two.

Ross

 

[Rider_FJR]

Ross,

Thanks for the info. I had no idea that even with the key "Off" there is still power being used.

Shorai says:

No more dead batteries. Holds charge for one year without maintenance.

I had my Shorai 18v in the bike for last 2 and half months, would that drain the battery? Maybe I should have removed it and stored it in the house for the winter.

Maybe it would hold a charge for a year if there was no draw on it. With the key off, there is a small constant drain on your battery. Keeps the clock running and the trip odometers set. Not sure if the ECU uses power or not. I have no idea how many watts it takes to run this stuff but it will eventually draw down the battery. I would at least unhook the battery if you are expecting downtime of more than a week or two.

Ross

 

[Rider_FJR]

I found this on Shorai Site.

A fully charged LFX can sit for a year or more and still retain adequate starting capacity, without damaging the battery. As such, any vehicle which has no current flowing when the key is OFF should never need a tender. At most it should be charged every 6 to 12 months, depending on the average storage temperature (cool storage is much better for any battery). Many older vehicles and most dirtbike/atv fall into this category.

Newer vehicles may have a significant draw even when the key is OFF, to maintain clocks and computers, etc. In this case we expect that a few hours of riding per month will be all that is needed to avoid tending. If you know that you will go a number of weeks or months without riding, you can either attach a tender, or disconnect the negative cable from the battery. In any case, during storage you may use the voltage chart above and an accurate voltmeter, and consider recharging when the battery is around the 50% capacity remaining mark, or above.

 

[SkooterG]

I found this on Shorai Site.

A fully charged LFX can sit for a year or more and still retain adequate starting capacity, without damaging the battery. As such, any vehicle which has no current flowing when the key is OFF should never need a tender. At most it should be charged every 6 to 12 months, depending on the average storage temperature (cool storage is much better for any battery). Many older vehicles and most dirtbike/atv fall into this category.

Newer vehicles may have a significant draw even when the key is OFF, to maintain clocks and computers, etc. In this case we expect that a few hours of riding per month will be all that is needed to avoid tending. If you know that you will go a number of weeks or months without riding, you can either attach a tender, or disconnect the negative cable from the battery. In any case, during storage you may use the voltage chart above and an accurate voltmeter, and consider recharging when the battery is around the 50% capacity remaining mark, or above.

IMHO, your Shorai should not have discharged to 3 volts. It was only just over 2 months, in cold temps, and the FJR doesn't use that much juice just sitting. I strongly recommend contacting Shorai and see what they have to say.

Were you able to bring the battery back to life?

 

[Phugedaboudet]

got the "3 day sit with temps below 30" test out of the way this week. Let it crank slow two or three times, wait five seconds, repeat, wait five, battery gets noticeably stronger and starts up. Less than 30 seconds from attempt to start to running, never getting low enough to reset any clocks. Some of these mornings it's been in the high 20's. When ridden the day before, and 27 degrees on the thermometer, it started second try and under 15 seconds.

So far, so good!

 

[Rider_FJR]

Is that with the 18amp?

got the "3 day sit with temps below 30" test out of the way this week. Let it crank slow two or three times, wait five seconds, repeat, wait five, battery gets noticeably stronger and starts up. Less than 30 seconds from attempt to start to running, never getting low enough to reset any clocks. Some of these mornings it's been in the high 20's. When ridden the day before, and 27 degrees on the thermometer, it started second try and under 15 seconds.

So far, so good!

 

[Phugedaboudet]

Yep. it wasn't a whole lot more and there'd been a lot of discussion about the 14's being replaced with 18's so I just went that way at the beginning.

Is that with the 18amp?

got the "3 day sit with temps below 30" test out of the way this week. Let it crank slow two or three times, wait five seconds, repeat, wait five, battery gets noticeably stronger and starts up. Less than 30 seconds from attempt to start to running, never getting low enough to reset any clocks. Some of these mornings it's been in the high 20's. When ridden the day before, and 27 degrees on the thermometer, it started second try and under 15 seconds.

So far, so good!