Sick 2006A

[dcarver]

Bad news my way today. ~23k 2006A, tech at Powerhouse reports back cylinders 3 & 4 at 60 & 80 psi respectively. Cylinders 1 &2 at 180, 190. Leaking past intake valves. Covered by warranty but still.. :angry: No wonder it was running rough at Death Valley.

I noticed about 4 months or so ago that my mpg went from 40's to low 30's.

 

[SkooterG]

Wow! What a bummer man. And idea to the cause? Other than you ride your FJR like a girly-man, that is.

Seriously, sorry to hear the bad news. Hope it gets fixed up right.

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

This is about the second time I've heard about this type of ailment. There was a really good explanation in the first one... I believe Jestal provided it. Something about the compression measurement, and how the dealer did it and how it may have been a bogus indicator.

 

[radman]

Do a leakdown, if the intakes are bad you can hear them through the TB's, pretty unmistakable.

 

[FJRMGM]

no problems with oil consumption?

 

[radman]

no problems with oil consumption?

Actually, he's about due for a valve adjust. A couple tight intakes could be all thats wrong. Generally, leaky intakes will raise hell with induction, even a vac gauge on the suspect cylinders will tell all, and could well be how the tech condemned them. But oil consumption would not be a telltale or symptom. Now, bad rings, thats different. As far as Orangies comment, a couple spoonfuls of oil will decide if it's the rings or valves on a compression test.

 

[user 213]

Sorry to hear about the problems dcarver. Do you have a Power Commander? If so, what map are you running?

Probably has nothing to do with it, but I'm curious.

 

[dcarver]

Additional info

1. The tech, Ivan, is Yamaha gold certified, has worked on various engines for me, he really appears to know his shit which is good for me. I'm trying to say I've had very favorable experiences with him before.

2. Ivan says the intake lash is OK. He didn't take actual measurements other than to see that .005' would pass through. Kind of a go/no-go test.

3. Ivan did both a pressure test and leakdown test.

4. The leakdown test indicated air leakage past the intake valves.

No Power Commander, air and oil filer changed every 3 - 5k miles, running dino/syn Champion motor oil. Same stuff I've run in my MX 4 stroke engines that much higher stressed engines. No problem with oil consumption. Doesn't burn any, actually.

I wonder if I have a quiet 2006 ticker? <_<

 

[jestal]

edit

 

[Zoltan]

I'm with jestal sounds like a head gasket to me.

Zoltan

 

[dcarver]

A quote from the GF "Really? That just sucks....Can they fix it? Well...I have two words for you...HARLEY DAVIDSON....." hmm, fjr at 23k miles = major service, HD at 130k+ and no problems... still like the FJR though, it scratches a different itch and this too will pass.

If 3 and 4 are that low and the intake valve clearances are adequate (sounds like they are) and air is leaking past the intakes on a leakdown test it sure sounds like there is some sort of problem inside the motor. Intake seating/sealing problems are somewhat unusual in my experience so what may be going on is a bit of a mystery. For two cylinders to have low compression like that and both to leak past the intakes really deepens the mystery. I can't think of an alternative to opening it up at this point. The compression test indicates that there is a problem in 3 and 4 and the leakdown confirms it if he is hearing leakage in the intake from both 3 and 4 so sounds like time to take a look. I'm just at a bit of a loss as to what could cause such a dramatic loss in compression in two adjacent cylinders like that. Off the cuff it almost sounds like a head gasket is leaking between the two cylinders. That would explain low compression numbers and high leak downs and the effect on two adjacent cylinders and the leak down test from 3 could be hissing into 4's intake valves and vice versa due to rotating the crank to run the leak down test. Since the compression numbers are low and nearly the same in 3 and 4 it would make you think the "same" leak is occuring which is highly unlikely if it was a valve problem or something. You would expect the compression to all over the map....not the same in the two bad cylinders. Tends to make me think head gasket even more. The motor in the FJR seems to have no history of head gasket problems though.....sooo.....hmmmm.......Like I said.....it will be interesting to see what they find.....

My knee jerk answer is head gasket failed in the narrow bridge between the two cylinders.

Any history of overheating or eating coolant or anything like that?

Jestal - a common problem causing both cylinders to leak was my initial thought too. No problems with overheating, ever, even during the hot summer months (+110 no problem), but, for the first time just last week, I did add approx 6 oz of coolant as the coolant level in the overflow was at minimum with a warmed engine. I was thinking that perhaps not all of coolant made it back to the system subsequent to the CC install which required coolant draindown.

 

[Mike-H]

A quote from the GF "Really? That just sucks....Can they fix it? Well...I have two words for you...HARLEY DAVIDSON....."

1st time you've sworn (harley davidson) @ the girlfriend I bet :derisive: ....

 

[Barabus]

You are our leader for 2006 issues. First the ignition and now this. WTF? Hopefully, they will fix it up right. I used about 6oz. of coolant recently. No white smoke in the exhaust, however. That does it, I need a second bike to relieve to stresses off the FJR. Has anyone gotten that new Ducati 1098? Maybe that would fit the bill.

 

[dcarver]

You are our leader for 2006 issues. First the ignition and now this. WTF? Hopefully, they will fix it up right. I used about 6oz. of coolant recently. No white smoke in the exhaust, however. That does it, I need a second bike to relieve to stresses off the FJR. Has anyone gotten that new Ducati 1098? Maybe that would fit the bill.

I also have 2x the mileage you do..

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

This is about the second time I've heard about this type of ailment. There was a really good explanation in the first one... I believe Jestal provided it. Something about the compression measurement, and how the dealer did it and how it may have been a bogus indicator.

+1 on the leakdown. Like Rad said, listen through the TB's, but also listen through the Oil fill hole and exhaust. You'll hear rings leaking through oil hole & you'll hear exhaust valves leaking through the pipes. 8 -10% leakdown is pretty much normal. Anything over 20% and you got real problems! Leakdown can show a blown head gasket also, it'll be bubbling in the radiator.

EDIT: Oppps! Should have read through all of them! lol

 

[kaitsdad]

Don, this Sucks. big time.

Might this be related to what you thought might be a fuel starvation problem earlier?

I'm assuming that you went to the dealer without resolving the problem, and he found the low compression?

 

[jestal]

edit

 

[dcarver]

Don, this Sucks. big time. Might this be related to what you thought might be a fuel starvation problem earlier?

I'm assuming that you went to the dealer without resolving the problem, and he found the low compression?

Hal, Yes, this does suck but then again I'm very fortunate to have a good dealer and warranty *and* another bike to ride. This repair is covered by the 12 month original factory warranty, I also bought the YES policy.. for you newbie's on the fence about purchasing an extended warranty don't be foolish..

..and no, the Death Valley problem was solved by eliminating the CA bike charcoal canister. I still want to find another 06 Kali bike and test with my highly accurate blowometer... keep it pure boyz.. :blink: Seriously, the vent through my cap and the vent through the charcoal canister require ~ the same amount of pressure, which really surprised me.

Wouldn't it be really interesting if 3&4 intake valves show signs of lean combustion?

Leakdown can show a blown head gasket also, it'll be bubbling in the radiator.

Possibly.....but not always. If the head gasket is leaking in the bridge between cylinders it very well may not be breached in a coolant passage. If the leakdown test causes bubbling in the cooling system then you can be pretty sure it is a blown head gasket. If the leakdown test does not cause bubbling in the cooling system it can still be a blown head gasket.

I imagine they are going to tear into it and it may be apart by the time you ask but the tech could pressurize 4 with the leak down tester and listen thru the spark plug port of 3 with a piece of hose. If the head gasket is gone between cylinders then you should be able to hear the air leaking past into 3.

Jestal, I will call the dealer, Powerhouse of Paso Robles, first thing in the AM to see if they can do the test you suggest.

..and on another note, I can't imagine how much stronger it will run when all 4 are banging out equivalent ponies. I'm somewhat surprised I didn't feel the (put a number here) percentage loss of HP with 50% of the cylinders running at less than 50% efficiency. Honestly, I couldn't tell *any* difference in performance. The bike would still run at 130, accelerated out of corners like no other bike I've been on, street wise.. the only real difference I could discern was a loss of mpg. To hear that the problem was this serious came as a complete surprise. :glare: The uptake from idle seemed smooth and vibration free. No sounds like what Hal just had with one cylinder dead. The bike started easy, accelerated from idle with authority, hit the powerband just fine in the upper rpm range, didn't stumble up high etc etc.

Then again, slow deterioration of performance is much harder to discern than the catastrophic failure. Especially since I don't wring the neck of this particular chicken all that often. Makes me think that maybe SkooterG and his manly style of riding are needed for these high performance ponies..

In the meantime, the 134k+ miles HD just got pressed into service.. She will be my ride until Crzy8 is healthy again.

BTW just proof read this post.. and the 130 thing is just because I'm chicken. I've not run the bike to full warp speed, ever. Remember, I'm the CBA CEO..

 

[HIGHLANDER]

..and no, the Death Valley problem was solved by eliminating the CA bike charcoal canister. I still want to find another 06 Kali bike and test with my highly accurate blowometer... keep it pure boyz.. :blink: Seriously, the vent through my cap and the vent through the charcoal canister require ~ the same amount of pressure, which really surprised me.

Bummer D, hope it's fixed quickly... and until you return to DV you don't REALLY know the miss is fixed. Since both our 06's were doing it at roughly the same place I'm thinking ot may be the fact we were both below sea level, and it had something to do with how the computer is setup,,,,,but then again Hal's ran fine ?? So far mine has not cutout or stumbled since.