sidestand wiring bypassed but ignition problems remain

[tonyklas]

I have read all related topics in this forum that I could find but I could use further advice, PLEASE!!

My FJR was intermittently losing ignition when placing the bike in gear even when the sidestand was up. After trying a number of times, it would work just fine and I'd be off riding. Then the ignition began cutting out while at speed. Same thing, I would start it and put it in gear multiple times until it would work again.

Easy fix I thought, cutting off the switch and bypassing it, soldering the 2 wires together. The problem remained intermittent. Thinking maybe the plug under the gastank has a bad connection, I cut that off too and soldered the wires together there. The problem remains.

From what I have read in this forum, I'm guessing the next most obvious step is to replace the starter cut-off relay? I'm ok with mechanical work but I'm next to useless on diagnosing electrical glitches. If relay replacement is my next step, where do I find it and is there anything more to it then just unplugging the old one and replacing it with a new part?

Tony

 

[Harald]

The sidestand switch will definitely do this, but sounds like you already bypassed it. BTW, the connector is easily accessible to bypass as I reported in this thread:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/159487-going-70-in-the-fast-lane-bike-dies-i-dont/?p=1169332

The 2007 was affected by an ignition switch recall. Not sure if Canadian bikes got this recall, but something to check into. The replacement ignition switch has a tag on the wire harness under the tank, but I can't remember the details on ID'ing this. You mentioned cutting off a connector under the tank. Was this one of the spider connectors?

 

[Ignacio]

I have read all related topics in this forum that I could find but I could use further advice, PLEASE!!

All? Wow....that's amazing. I've on this forum since 2005 and haven't read close to them all.

Did you read about the Ground Spider pinned on FJRF009 or the ignition switch recall pinned in the same area?

 

[tonyklas]

The 2007 was affected by an ignition switch recall. Not sure if Canadian bikes got this recall, but something to check into. The replacement ignition switch has a tag on the wire harness under the tank, but I can't remember the details on ID'ing this. You mentioned cutting off a connector under the tank. Was this one of the spider connectors?

Both recalls have already been dealt with and wiring replaced. Ya, I was referring to the 2-wire connector between the gas tank and left cover

 

[tonyklas]

Did you read about the Ground Spider pinned on FJRF009 or the ignition switch recall pinned in the same area?

Yup, lots of info there. I'm going to strip it down and look at all wiring. If I can't see an obvious wear or ground problem then I will replace the relay.

 

[Donal]

Have you looked at the clutch switch (on the handlebar, part of the clutch lever assy).

Are the indications 'normal' on the gear position indicator?

Always get a clear indication of neutral when it's in neutral?

 

[Fred W]

My guess is that this is the secondary set of contacts in the ignition switch. There are two sets of contacts in there. The main, larger gauge wires, switch power to most of the bike. The secondary contacts only switch the fuel injection power which goes through the same relay that is enabled by the sidestand. In fact when those contacts go bad you sometimes get a sidestand error. (Ref 3rd Gens with sidestand errors that need to be cleared by dealership)

When you have the problem symptom try switching the ignition on and off a few times to try and get better contact, or wiggle the key in the lock.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I miss Ionbeam,

He was great with electrical issues.

Dave

 

[tonyklas]

Have you looked at the clutch switch (on the handlebar, part of the clutch lever assy).
Are the indications 'normal' on the gear position indicator?

Always get a clear indication of neutral when it's in neutral?

all are good

 

[wfooshee]

I was going to say the same thing that Fred said. That second set of contacts in the ignition switch also directly feed the neutral switch line to the ECU, and if that line breaks its circuit, it's the same signal at the ECU as the stand being put down.

 

[tonyklas]

I was going to say the same thing that Fred said. That second set of contacts in the ignition switch also directly feed the neutral switch line to the ECU, and if that line breaks its circuit, it's the same signal at the ECU as the stand being put down.

So my best bet then is just to replace the ignition switch and see if that clears things up?

 

[Fred W]

Or... do what I suggested and the next time you have the symptom, see if you can clear it by fiddling with the ignition switch and nothing else. If you can, then the switch is good bet. If it doesn't change the symptom then look else where and save your money.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The sidestand switch is a two wire device. One wire goes to the ground bus. I'd guess your problem is that wire's connection to the ground bus. You're not getting a good, continuous connection to the ground bus.

Bypassing the switch by jumpering around it won't solve the problem because the connection to the ground bus is faulty.

Connect a jumper between the sidestand switch's ground bus wire and the engine or frame and see if that cures the problem.

The ground bus daisy chain system on these bikes is unreliable.

I'm doubtful your problem is related to the ignition switch. You're having problems while you're riding when the ignition switch is untouched. Why would shifting from neutral into gear multiple times give inconsistent results if the problem was the ignition switch?

The key here is the difference between how the sidestand switch is grounded versus the neutral switch. The neutral switch is a one wire device. It's grounded through the crankcase. The sidestand switch, on the other hand, is a two wire device which gets its ground from the ground bus.

Somehow your ground bus connection is faulty for the sidestand switch.

 

[Fred W]

I didn't catch the part about putting it in gear multiple times changing the symptom. I agree. It is not very likely that it is the key switch in that case.

 

[tonyklas]

Makes sense. Sorry, like I said I'm not experienced or comfortable with understanding and messing with wiring but I am trying to learn. So to diagnose whether the grounding is the problem can I just ground both of the sidestand switch wires to any point on the frame? Then, simply ride for a few days and if the problem does not reappear then I know I need to deal with the ground bus and fix that to ensure a proper ground?

Connect a jumper between the sidestand switch's ground bus wire and the engine or frame and see if that cures the problem.
The key here is the difference between how the sidestand switch is grounded versus the neutral switch. The neutral switch is a one wire device. It's grounded through the crankcase. The sidestand switch, on the other hand, is a two wire device which gets its ground from the ground bus.

 

[Fred W]

In a word: Yes.

 

[Constant Mesh]

If it's like an '06 model the two wire colors are blue/green and black. I would connect the black wire to the crankcase or frame. However, it appears from the schematic that both wires are black all the way to the first connector, located inside the frame above the generator and in front of the air box. That's where the blue/green wire first appears. The connector/plug is blue.

Do you still have the two wires jumpered together at one or more places?

If so, you can ground the black wire and they'll both be grounded. The switch will be irrelevant while they're jumpered.

If the results are good doing this then you can come back and remove the jumpers between the two wires and then the switch will function as it should.

You'll still have to find out where the ground bus problem is and fix it.

We're getting too far ahead though.

First, just find out if grounding the black wire to the engine or frame makes a positive difference.

 

[tonyklas]

Thanks for your help everyone. This gives me a few things to work through.

The crappy thing here is that every bike shop in town is so busy they either won't work on anyone's bikes unless they bought the bike from that shop or else they will say "sure, leave the bike here but don't expect us to get around to working on it anytime soon". Summer just arrived in Vancouver after 5 brutal months of rain so all bikes are hitting the road at the same time

 

[tonyklas]