SMOKE!! stator wires
- Thread starter fjrob1300
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Bungie
FrostBack #2 - IBA # 44620
Map? Route? I thought it was, head west, then head south, then head east, then head north?
Sorry Wheatness, were crossing at Sault Saint Marie and then heading west across Mich, and Wisconsin. Next time though!
Glad you got the 'lectrics sorted out so quickly, Rob.
You guys have a good ride. We'll see you in a few weeks in Knoxville!!
I'm sure there will be lots of new "On the Road" stories...
You guys have a good ride. We'll see you in a few weeks in Knoxville!!
I'm sure there will be lots of new "On the Road" stories...
wheatonFJR
...
I was pretty sure that was the way you intended, but stories got back from CFR as to your deficient GPS...so I'll keep the light on for ya just in case. Got a basement Rec Room you can throw your sleeping bags and sleep in just in case.
Khunajawdge
Toto El Mundo!
I got nothin' either really, I'm just postin' to applaud Geezer's post :scooter: :smokin: :lol2: :clapping:
I say put the stocker back in there and you will be good to go!
NMRoadRunner
A Bulls work is never done!
Car Tire = Bad JuJu :assassin: :assassin: :assassin:
Bungie
FrostBack #2 - IBA # 44620
HA!
I think I finally figured my GPS's problem (I mean besides the guy following it). It doesn't like to leave. Oh it's fine once under way, but it' throws a hissy fit for the first little while. I'm counting on Rob or Tom to know which general direction we need to get going in, because I'm the guy who gets lost in peoples houses..
"Help"
"Steve, where are you?"
"I don't know, but its dark and I'm surrounded by towels...."
Feejer/Weejer man
Well-known member
I have had an ES stator in the 03 since they first came out. Not a problem.
Oh man. You just jinxed yourself big time there.
wheatonFJR
...
How many miles on that ES??
Mine (from the previous owner) had between 25 to 35 k miles when it gave up the smoke in western NC on a rainy Sunday afternoon...yep GOOD TIMES!
I would tend to agree...ride with a group, don't go in isolated America, don't spit into the wind, bring your stock stator or have another ES on hand along with your soldering iron, and you don't mess around with Jim...or you are DOOMED.
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ionbeam
2 FUN
If you don't have a volt meter installed, now would be the time... If you do have a volt meter, now is the time to watch it carefully. Usually you will get some warning before you have to walk.
Having fried two ES stators in the last 65k miles I put my stock stator back in. As much fun as it is to hate ElectroSport for their POS stator, it turns out that any aftermarket stator that makes 100 watts or more extra power will have a typical life in the 25k-40k mile range in a FJR.
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
So, Alan, what's the weak link in the ES chain that causes them to "give up the ghost"? Is it just the stator? Or is it something else.
The reason I ask, if the Gen II stators are putting out more wattage, then what's to prevent them from going up in smoke early in life as well? There must be something else in the charging circuit that's been upgraded too, to be able to handle the extra current.
Or......just maybe.....ES is using under-spec'd wire in their wrap jobs and that's the main reason.
Just curious.
ionbeam
2 FUN
The ES stator tries to get 10 pounds of manure into a 5 pound bag. They rewind a stator core with as much wire as they can cram on. Actually winding the wire on is a bit of an art and is a significant difference between stator companies and directly affects the amount of power generated. The stator wires are carrying -- well -- 100 watts more than the stock windings. With no cooling space between the adjacent wires that are crammed on the stator lobes plus all the extra power, the windings overheat. The heating tends to be concentrated where the stator wires and the harness wires are bonded. In an ugly twist of fate, on the FJR this happens at the top of the housing where there is almost no oil spray to cool things down and the top is where rising heat goes. Over time the heat and the expansion/contraction of the wires compromises the insulation on the wires. When the insulation between two adjacent lobes breaks down electrical current begins to leak. Sometimes it is the heat working at the stator wire/harness wire junction where the wire breaks down and starts to become a resistor instead of a conductor.
A rewound stator is only part of the voltage generator. What isn't being changed is the rotor. The stock rotor with what ever magnetic poles the factory used remains unchanged which forces all the power gains to me made through the stator. Oh but to have a rare earth rotor that makes much stronger magnetic fields to really excite the stator
The Gen II is designed as a system. The rotor on the Gen II is longer than the Gen I and the stator is larger too. This lets the whole system work at a more optimum design so that cooling isn't a problem. You can indeed add a Gen II charging system to the Gen I. It requires the longer stator cover, new rotor (getting the tapered rotor off the crank is a first class *****), new stator and new voltage regulator. Oh ya, the R/R on the Gen I is up top near the front of the frame, the Gen II R/R is down by the lower back of the engine and within sight of the rebound damper adjuster on the shock. Some creative wiring would be required.
It is possible to get a Gen I stator wound to produce the extra 100 watts and remain reliable. You wouldn't want to pay for it. Someplace I have written a short thingie about wire coatings, insulating layers and potting stators for long life. If you are having trouble sleeping I will see if I can find it.
And, as a side note, the Gen II's bigger rotor adds flywheel weight. Give 'n Take -- Take: the larger mass will slow down the engine's ability to rev as quick. Give: The added mass will help smooth the engine and smooth the idle. Fortunately, the scale is small because the weight increase is small.
A rewound stator is only part of the voltage generator. What isn't being changed is the rotor. The stock rotor with what ever magnetic poles the factory used remains unchanged which forces all the power gains to me made through the stator. Oh but to have a rare earth rotor that makes much stronger magnetic fields to really excite the stator
The Gen II is designed as a system. The rotor on the Gen II is longer than the Gen I and the stator is larger too. This lets the whole system work at a more optimum design so that cooling isn't a problem. You can indeed add a Gen II charging system to the Gen I. It requires the longer stator cover, new rotor (getting the tapered rotor off the crank is a first class *****), new stator and new voltage regulator. Oh ya, the R/R on the Gen I is up top near the front of the frame, the Gen II R/R is down by the lower back of the engine and within sight of the rebound damper adjuster on the shock. Some creative wiring would be required.
It is possible to get a Gen I stator wound to produce the extra 100 watts and remain reliable. You wouldn't want to pay for it. Someplace I have written a short thingie about wire coatings, insulating layers and potting stators for long life. If you are having trouble sleeping I will see if I can find it.
And, as a side note, the Gen II's bigger rotor adds flywheel weight. Give 'n Take -- Take: the larger mass will slow down the engine's ability to rev as quick. Give: The added mass will help smooth the engine and smooth the idle. Fortunately, the scale is small because the weight increase is small.
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rushes
Well-known member
Amazing....The ES stator tries to get 10 pounds of manure into a 5 pound bag. They rewind a stator core with as much wire as they can cram on. Actually winding the wire on is a bit of an art and is a significant difference between stator companies and directly affects the amount of power generated. The stator wires are carrying -- well -- 100 watts more than the stock windings. With no cooling space between the adjacent wires that are crammed on the stator lobes plus all the extra power, the windings overheat. The heating tends to be concentrated where the stator wires and the harness wires are bonded. In an ugly twist of fate, on the FJR this happens at the top of the housing where there is almost no oil spray to cool things down and the top is where rising heat goes. Over time the heat and the expansion/contraction of the wires compromises the insulation on the wires. When the insulation between two adjacent lobes breaks down electrical current begins to leak. Sometimes it is the heat working at the stator wire/harness wire junction where the wire breaks down and starts to become a resistor instead of a conductor.
A rewound stator is only part of the voltage generator. What isn't being changed is the rotor. The stock rotor with what ever magnetic poles the factory used remains unchanged which forces all the power gains to me made through the stator. Oh but to have a rare earth rotor that makes much stronger magnetic fields to really excite the stator
The Gen II is designed as a system. The rotor on the Gen II is longer than the Gen I and the stator is larger too. This lets the whole system work at a more optimum design so that cooling isn't a problem. You can indeed add a Gen II charging system to the Gen I. It requires the longer stator cover, new rotor (getting the tapered rotor off the crank is a first class *****), new stator and new voltage regulator. Oh ya, the R/R on the Gen I is up top near the front of the frame, the Gen II R/R is down by the lower back of the engine and within sight of the rebound damper adjuster on the shock. Some creative wiring would be required.
It is possible to get a Gen I stator wound to produce the extra 100 watts and remain reliable. You wouldn't want to pay for it. Someplace I have written a short thingie about wire coatings, insulating layers and potting stators for long life. If you are having trouble sleeping I will see if I can find it.
And, as a side note, the Gen II's bigger rotor adds flywheel weight. Give 'n Take -- Take: the larger mass will slow down the engine's ability to rev as quick. Give: The added mass will help smooth the engine and smooth the idle. Fortunately, the scale is small because the weight increase is small.
Quite.
[trivial stuff]
But, I'm not convinced that the answer (or blame) lies so heavily on the poor rotor being weak. For instance, if one were to beef up just the rotor, and not do anything else to the existing stator, increases in induced current and power would still have to make its way through the same old wimpy stator windings. This sure sounds like a similarly dismal "upgrade".
No, my thoughts are that you should be increasing both the magnetic field power of the rotor and the power handling capacity of the stator. This may not be obvious, but they are two very different parameters.
What E-sport does is simply wind more turns in the limited space they have, to boost the induced voltage and end up with more current and watts. But the more windings has all of the negatives that ionbeam suggests. Higher density (less cooling) in increased current (more heat) can't result in anything except reduced life. This is analogous to the "overclocked" halogen headlamp bulbs that generate slightly more light output ( along with more heat) in a trade for shorter filament life.
[/trivial stuff]
Yeah, it really would take a complete redesign of the FJR alternator (both sides) to generate more power and not risk reduced reliability.
[trivial stuff]
But, I'm not convinced that the answer (or blame) lies so heavily on the poor rotor being weak. For instance, if one were to beef up just the rotor, and not do anything else to the existing stator, increases in induced current and power would still have to make its way through the same old wimpy stator windings. This sure sounds like a similarly dismal "upgrade".
No, my thoughts are that you should be increasing both the magnetic field power of the rotor and the power handling capacity of the stator. This may not be obvious, but they are two very different parameters.
What E-sport does is simply wind more turns in the limited space they have, to boost the induced voltage and end up with more current and watts. But the more windings has all of the negatives that ionbeam suggests. Higher density (less cooling) in increased current (more heat) can't result in anything except reduced life. This is analogous to the "overclocked" halogen headlamp bulbs that generate slightly more light output ( along with more heat) in a trade for shorter filament life.
[/trivial stuff]
Yeah, it really would take a complete redesign of the FJR alternator (both sides) to generate more power and not risk reduced reliability.
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
So, in a nut shell, with the ES, you pays your money -- you takes your chances.
I'm not losing sleep over this...was just curious. Thanks Alan & Fred. This has all probably been covered before, but my brain had a few extra cells that needed re-filling.
I'm not losing sleep over this...was just curious. Thanks Alan & Fred. This has all probably been covered before, but my brain had a few extra cells that needed re-filling.
rushes
Well-known member
Or just quit worryin' bout this **** and buy a Honda!So, in a nut shell, with the ES, you pays your money -- you takes your chances.
I'm not losing sleep over this...was just curious. Thanks Alan & Fred. This has all probably been covered before, but my brain had a few extra cells that needed re-filling.
