Smoking

[pmoscoso]

I am having an issue with my 05 ABS FJR. It is blowing lots of white smoke from both pipes. I thought that the mix was too rich because there was also a fair amount of gas smell. I took it to the local Dealer and they could not find anything wrong. They tell me that their computer shows that the electronic unit is working well and that the fuel mix is fine and that the smoke could be condensation. To me that is a bit of a reach because even if there was water, after a few minutes of riding that water will evaporate.By the way they called Yamaha and were told that they have not heard of this problem in other FJR's.

I am asking if there is anybody who has run into a similar problem with their bike.

Thanks.

:help:

 

[Vulcan]

Is your coolant low? White smoke can mean that coolant is getting into the cylinder(s) and buring off.

 

[pmoscoso]

According to the mechanic the coolant is not leaking.

 

[Gleno]

blowing lots of white smoke from both pipes.

My friend, I see smoke being blown twice....

1) Your FJR is deff introducing coolant into the combustion chanber for some reason. Be it a blown head gasket, cracked head or otherwise. White smoke indeed represents coolant, and coolant only. If it were rich (due to mapping or whatever) it would be black smoke. It it were burning oil, it'd be blue smoke. A LEAN mixture won't cause smoke, but WILL cause heat, and could therefore be the root, however, that will come with further diag time. I would recommend a self block test to determine where the coolant is going and why.

2) The dealer (unless a complete tard) is blowing smoke. See response 1.

Best of luck. Keep us in the loop.

 

[paint]

+1

White smoke is always water (coolant for you young guys).

Black smoke is carbon caused by too much fuel.

Blue smoke is oil burning.

Paint

 

[Gleno]

Is there an echo in here???

 

[Bananas]

Is this when you first fire it up on a cold day? Mine will do this until things heat up. If it is coolant getting into the combustion chamber(s), pull the plugs and read them. Also pressure test the cooling system. If coolant is getting into the cylinder(s) the pressure will leak down. Good luck Amigo.

Bananas!

 

[Geezer]

You probably already ruled this out, but on a cold morning you will get condensate in the pipes just after startup because of the hot exhaust meeting the cold air in the pipes and the cold pipes themselves. This will cause white exhaust for a short time until everything is heated up and the initial condensate has evaporated.

Edit - Oops, looks like there is an echo.

 

[Gleno]

Fellas......a cheeseburger can see the diff in condensate burn off and white smoke from coolant. Further, he eluded to the fact that it doesn't "burn off" after a few minutes of riding time. Telling me, a simpleton, that bike gots issues.

.......and yes, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite. :blink:

 

[pmoscoso]

I sense concensus from all the responses. I will be meeting with the mechanic tomorrow and will insist in looking for that connection, it makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for the input and I'll keep you posted.

 

[pmoscoso]

I met with the mechanic today. The only significant finding was that there was a "fair" amount of water collected in the pipes (Because there is a drain hole in the pipes, I dont understand how water can collect in such amount to cause problems). They ran all kinds of diagnostics and could not find anything wrong. The coolant and oil levels were fine, so there was no indication of any leakage. He suggested to drive it and see what happens. The good news is that it is no longer smoking.

The only explanation is perhaps that the last time I washed the bike, inadvertently I put enough water in the exhaust to create the problem. That was a costly wash but I learned a lesson and next time I'll make sure to cover the exhaust.

 

[Fallen Jim Rides again]

pmoscoso, are you washing the bike as much or more than you are riding it? Seems that what you descirbe here would have to be alot of water and relativly short rides.

If so we're here for ya dude. :lol:

Check the vitals (liquids and air pressure) and go for a long ride in the country as soon as possible. At least 100 miles. Just do it.

Seriously, it is hard to believe that enought water could be in the exhaust and remain there for very long with out there being some other indication besides the smoke (steam?). Weird

 

[ionbeam]

Take two of these

and stick them in... uhh, an appropriate place and wash away.

Alan

 

[radman]

Take two of these

and stick them in... uhh, an appropriate place    and wash away.
Alan

+1.

I tape off the exhaust outlets when I wash Frank down. I always ride a good distance after a wash, so it may be overkill, but it's an old habit. I also tape off the ign switch cyl opening, the CCS control head, anything that might not appreciate a heavy dose of water. After all, washing the bike isn't like riding through rain.

 

[ionbeam]

After all, washing the bike isn't like riding through rain

Yes indeedie, washing can put water pressure from odd angles that the bike would never see from rain riding. I too cover up sensitive areas and avoid others all together.

I watch my neighbor use a pressure washer on his bike then he follows it up with a leaf blower to dry it off :bigeyes: Both these actions drive water behind bearing seals, behind 'sealed' panels, under display lenses and deeply into connectors and cable housings. I haven't talked to him about it though, because it's a Harley he's washing :haha:

Alan

 

[jestal]

I don't know what the end result of the findings will be.....but.....for the record....excess fuel can also cause white smoke.

I agree with the conventional wisdom that a rich mixture will lead to black smoke and the richer the mixture the "more black" the smoke will be. But, in the event of a stuck open injector causing copious amounts of fuel to be delivered to a cylinder the result will be very white smoke. Just like steam. The difference is that so much fuel is being delivered that most of the fuel is not combusting and is evaporating in the exhaust cuasing the white smoke. As long as the mixture that is burning is still in the combustable range black smoke would typically be the characteristic expected. If there is truely an excessive amount of fuel being delivered then the result is white smoke.

If the white smoke persists I would look at the injectors and the fuel pressure regulator on the port fuel injection system. A relatively common failure mode of port fuel injection systems with a fuel pressure regulator (like the FJR) is for the vacuum diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator to fail and start to leak fuel past. The fuel enters the intake system via the vacuum reference hose and causes white smoke.

Not that this is necessarily the problem in this case....but it certainly could be the problem and is worth considering. It is easy to check by pulling the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator while the engine is running and checking for the presence of leaking fuel at the vacuum nipple on the fuel pressure regulator. Apply a vacuum to the pressure regulator vacuum nipple with an auxiliary vacuum source (such as with a mighty vac) and check for fuel leakage out the nipple when vacuum is applied (use a clear vacuum hose). Sometimes the regulator can leak and the fuel will be pulled thru the vacuum hose to the engine so quickly that it will not be detected unless you use a close ended vacuum source like a mighty vac. Often the regulator will only leak when a vacuum is applied, also, so don't skip that check.

If the engine is injesting coolant into the combustion chamber that will cause white smoke also but it is pretty evident based on the sweet smell of the burning coolant as to what the problem is. If the white smoke persists and smells like fuel I would definitely consider an abnormally rich mixture as a possibility.

 

[Windjammer]

I've got to admit I've never plugged the exhaust or taped anything off when washing any of my bikes, FJR included. I use a garden hose with a sprayer on the end, and while I use plenty of water on the bike, I'm not pumping it directly down the exhaust canisters or anything. After washing, I towel the bike dry, take care of any waxing and detailing, and then start the bike and warm it up to dry off the motor, maybe even take a short ride to reward myself for cleaning the bike.

NEVER seen white smoke or any other visible exhaust evidence after doing this. Hard to believe you had that much water down the pipes, but I guess anything's possible. Keep yer eyes peeled on the fluid levels for awhile, and watch the fuel mileage to see if Jestal's figured it out for ya. That much fuel going in would affect mileage by a measurable amount, I'd think. :eh:

 

[Gleno]

I don't know what the end result of the findings will be.....but.....for the record....excess fuel can also cause white smoke.
I agree with the conventional wisdom that a rich mixture will lead to black smoke and the richer the mixture the "more black" the smoke will be. But, in the event of a stuck open injector causing copious amounts of fuel to be delivered to a cylinder the result will be very white smoke. Just like steam. The difference is that so much fuel is being delivered that most of the fuel is not combusting and is evaporating in the exhaust cuasing the white smoke. As long as the mixture that is burning is still in the combustable range black smoke would typically be the characteristic expected. If there is truely an excessive amount of fuel being delivered then the result is white smoke.

If the white smoke persists I would look at the injectors and the fuel pressure regulator on the port fuel injection system. A relatively common failure mode of port fuel injection systems with a fuel pressure regulator (like the FJR) is for the vacuum diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator to fail and start to leak fuel past. The fuel enters the intake system via the vacuum reference hose and causes white smoke.

Not that this is necessarily the problem in this case....but it certainly could be the problem and is worth considering. It is easy to check by pulling the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator while the engine is running and checking for the presence of leaking fuel at the vacuum nipple on the fuel pressure regulator. Apply a vacuum to the pressure regulator vacuum nipple with an auxiliary vacuum source (such as with a mighty vac) and check for fuel leakage out the nipple when vacuum is applied (use a clear vacuum hose). Sometimes the regulator can leak and the fuel will be pulled thru the vacuum hose to the engine so quickly that it will not be detected unless you use a close ended vacuum source like a mighty vac. Often the regulator will only leak when a vacuum is applied, also, so don't skip that check.

If the engine is injesting coolant into the combustion chamber that will cause white smoke also but it is pretty evident based on the sweet smell of the burning coolant as to what the problem is. If the white smoke persists and smells like fuel I would definitely consider an abnormally rich mixture as a possibility.

You are correct sir. I left this out of my original post on purpose though. Here's why....

If there's enough fuel being put into the exhaust to cause white smoke, he's also gonna have raw fuel running out of the exhaust in a coupla places. Further, it would have a horrible miss. Which he never mentioned.

Many people don't recognize the sweet smell of burning coolant, but I think the whole world recognizes the smell of raw fuel.

FWIW, YMMV, IIRC, Etc.

 

[FJRMGM]

I don't believe you can put enough raw fuel into the exhaust to ever cause white smoke to come out.

It will be black and the bike will run like $hit before that happens.

Blue/white smoke is oil and white is anti-freeze.

You will know the smell if it's anti-freeze cause it sure doesn't smell oily.

Have you checked your coolant level?

Burning enough oil to blow smoke will sure lower the level in the sight glass pretty soon also.