Soon to be FJR owner

[The Flying Potato]

Been thinking about a sport touring bike for a while now. Have demo'd the new Concours, but just can't get past the looks. Have rented a R1200RT a few times, but just can't justify the extra expense. Lately I've been focusing on the FJR.

Had my review today. Good review and my company (Silicon Valley Bank) just came off a record year. Nice bonus getting paid next Wed. Somewhat nervously asked the wife if she would be ok with trading my bike when I got home tonight. Her response was "your better than I am with money." I'm still not sure how that relates to my question, but I'm not going to argue with her.

As luck would have it, a dealer not to far from me has a 2008 with less than 7,000 miles. Going up tomorrow at noon to ride it. If it looks as good in person in as it does in the photos, I'll have a new bike soon enough. Really excited.

If anyone knows someone near denver who might be interested in a really nice SV650, let me know. Hate to lose money trading it in, but can't be bothered making a big effort to sell it either.

 

[JamesW]

Been thinking about a sport touring bike for a while now. Have demo'd the new Concours, but just can't get past the looks. Have rented a R1200RT a few times, but just can't justify the extra expense. Lately I've been focusing on the FJR.

Had my review today. Good review and my company (Silicon Valley Bank) just came off a record year. Nice bonus getting paid next Wed. Somewhat nervously asked the wife if she would be ok with trading my bike when I got home tonight. Her response was "your better than I am with money." I'm still not sure how that relates to my question, but I'm not going to argue with her.

As luck would have it, a dealer not to far from me has a 2008 with less than 7,000 miles. Going up tomorrow at noon to ride it. If it looks as good in person in as it does in the photos, I'll have a new bike soon enough. Really excited.

If anyone knows someone near denver who might be interested in a really nice SV650, let me know. Hate to lose money trading it in, but can't be bothered making a big effort to sell it either.

Looks nice, hope all goes well.

 

[Sharif]

Let us know when you hook up on it - you are going to love it!!

 

[BentAero]

What do they want for the FJR?

BTW, keep the SV. The FJR is not a replacement for the SV, it's an addition.

 

[The Flying Potato]

The have it listed at $8,999 with a "call so-and-so for special internet pricing." I went up there today and they said they had sold it to a wholesaler a week ago, but they called him and he still has it and is willing to give it back to them. So, I imagine I can negotiate a bit. To be honest I'm not going to let $1000 either way kill a deal if it really seems to be in good shape. I will have an independent mechanic check it out beofre buying.

As much as I would like to keep the SV, there are a couple of reasons why I won't - 1) that's really pushing it with the wife, and 2) I have a 1930's house with a single-car garage and drive a reasonably nice and new BMW that I want to keep in the garage (along with the bike, a couple of bicycles, lawnmower, etc. it's already a jigsaw puzzlue in there). So the SV will go. I have a friend moving from NY next week that says he will give me whatever the dealer is offering so I will probably go that route.

I do hate to give it up, it's a great bike and I've got a lot of money into it (Penske 8983/race tech suspension, Hepco & Becker racks and hard bags, exhaust, Sargent, some Rizoma bits, etc.), but two bikes are not going to work for me. I do plan to keep the Penske to eventually put on the FJR. Perhaps in a few more years at bonus time a second bike will get added to the mix (have always liked those Street Triples) but I would probably go with a basic Honda/Toyota, or a house with a bigger garage, before adding a second bike.

The SV...

 

[escapefjrtist]

From 1500 miles away the FJR looks pretty good!

If the dealer already wholesaled it once, seems you'll be in a excellent position for purchase...ie motivated dealer. Good luck with the inspection, it should be clean with only 7K on it.

--G

 

[The Flying Potato]

Interesting day yesterday. Call the sales guy in the morning, yes they had left to get the bike from the wholesaler about 30 minutes ago, come on up and check it out. When I get there there is a really beat up 2005 (that wasn't there on Friday) right in front. All scratched up, threads showing through the back tire, etc. I'm starting to get pissed, thinking I just wasted a few hours of my life when the sales guy wals around the corner and says "Oh no, the 2008 is in the back, we just took it off the truck." The bike is immaculate, looks as good as in the photos. Not a scratch on it, protective film on the tank and bags, one case has the manuals and 2nd key, the other has the bag liners unused in the original packaging, the tool kit is right where it belongs under the seat. Now I'm feeling pretty good and go inside to talk with the guy.

Tell the guy that I want to take it for a nice long ride and if it seem nice I will give him a deposit and come back on Wed (when my bonus gets paid) and buy it. OK he says, takes a copy of my license and insurance info. I mention that I am going to run it up on a tisty road up into the foothills, as I am moving up from a ~ 350 lb bike and want to see how I like it in the twisties. He says oh no, you can only take it out for five minutes around the dealership. Well then, you can forget it. OK, he'll go and ask the owner for an exception. Comes back, owner says no, can't do that for insurance reasons (after he's asked for my insurance info). Now I'm starting to get up and walk out, so he says let me talk to the owner again. OK, they will make an exception, but I have to be back in about an hour fifteen. I feel like saying "and what's gonna happen if I'm not" but decide to let it go. He puts plates on it while I get my gear on and I'm off.

Leaving the parking lot, the slow speed handling seems a little odd to me. A little hard to describe but its like when you make a slow turn the bars really want to turn into it. Granted I'm coming from a small, light bike, but I've ridden a new Concours, rented R1200RTs a few times and also a HD Road Glide (all Eagle Rider in San Diego rents is HDs) and never really noticed that sensation. Once on the highway and on the twisty road the bike is absolutely great. Stop by a local independent shop to see if they can take a quick look, but unfortunately the sign says they'll be back in 90 minutes.

Head back and sit back down with the sales guy. He breaks out the trusty four square piece of paper (what is it with these guys) and says we'll give you $2,800 for the SV and the FJR is $8,999 (the price listed on the website). I say that they already told me they wholesaled the bike once, why would you think I'm going to pay your original asking price and I'm probably going to sell the SV to a friend (this is true, I told him I'd sell it for whatever they offer me plus a little to make up for the tax savings on a trade). Comes back and says we'll give you $3,000 for the SV. Now I'm starting to get annoyed. He asks what I'm looking for to make a deal. I re-iterate that I'm not buying the bike today, I need until Wed, but if you can do $8,500 I'll give you a $500 deposit. Now I realize I could have probably negotiated a bit harder, but I don't like playing that game and frankly, from what I've been seeing, this is not really a pretty fair price. He goes back to the manager and comes back and says ok, we can do that. Says they will page me in a few.

30 minutes later they page me and I head into the F&I guy's office. Sales guy is walking out with a temporary tag in his hand and the F&I guy has all the sales papaerwork printed out on his desk. Now I lose my temper, I told you four or five times that I wasn't buying the bike but would give you a deposit and come back on Wed. Sales guy says that wasn't what he understood from our conversation. F&I guy is saying that I can pay the rest on Wed, but I need to sign the papers to hold the bike. I ask him if he thinks I'm an *****, once I sign the papers I have bought the bike and I have said repeatedly that I'm not doing that. Somewhat heated conversation with the F&I guy goes down, what would happen that you wouldn't want to buy the bike, how do we know your serious, a discussion about if deposits are refundable, this is our policy, etc.

So I walk, stopping to tell the sales guy to let me know if they change their mind about holding the bike for a few days with a deposit.

15 minutes later the F&I guy calls my cell. Feels really bad, they want to earn my business, let me give you six months no-interest and you can just pay off the loan, etc. I don't think he's actually a bad guy, but I'm officially pissed off now and even drop the first f-bomb of the day (actually somewhat surprising for me that it's the first one). Calls ends relatively well with him saying I can tell you are frustrated, why don't we talk next week?

Now that I'm all calmed down and thinking rationally again, I realize that I really do want to buy this bike. My plan is to call them tomorrow and say we can do $8,500 but I want you to throw in an engine oil, gear oil and coolant change (they do not have records for the 6,000 mile service). Also, I do want to trade my SV and I want them to pull the Penske off it for me and mount some new tires on the FJR as part of the deal (the tires aren't terrible but they are the originals and it lloks like Motorcycle Superstor has a pretty good sale and I can get a set of Pilot Road IIIs for ~ $300 delivered, so why not?). If you are ok with it, I will come in Tuesday morning (can't do it tomorrow and Tuesday I will be able to at least be able to see my bonus on the payroll system) sign the papers and give you a check, which you can cash Wed morning. I'll come back on Saturday morning with the SV and take possesion.

So, does this seem like a reasonable deal? Does my impression of the slow speed handling seem out of the ordinary to anyone that has moved up from a smaller bike (or especially you, BentAero as you also have a SV)? Maybe just low air pressure or something?

Sorry for the rediculously long post, just had to vent a little. Feeling better now.

 

[TomInPA]

Too much stress. I think you should not ask the dealer to pull off the Pensky shock on your trade. The oil and coolant service might not be a deal killer. Ask if they will price-match the Motorcycle Superstore tire price (my dealer does), then pay them a fair rate for the labor. My dealer charges $20/wheel when I bring it in, but you are asking for an hour of shop time if they do the change. Personally, I would have just bought the bike and paid the loan when the bonus came in. Just verify there aren't any finance charges.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Too bad...typical dealer with [high] pressure sales tactics and endless BS to put up with, and all this after you've told them exactly what you'll do. At $8500 the bike is a decent buy, definitely not a steal. If the bike is clean, I'd pull the Penske off the SV yourself, and then trade it. Asking the dealer to eat this much labor will probably kill the deal.

With worn tires, the FJR can be cumbersome at low speeds like you've described. Doesn't sound like anything to worry about.

--G

 

[Steel_Gin]

If the sales department is giving you this much of a run around I wouldn’t feel all that confident with the service department.

Hope you get a FJR soon.

 

[The Flying Potato]

Unfortunately pulling the shock off myself is beyond my incredibly limited mechanical abilities. My memory from when I got the shock installed was that the shock was pricey, but the labor for installing it was almost nothing (opposite of the work on the front end, cheap parts and a lot of labor). So I really didn't think trying to get that thrown in would be asking much, and I'm probably not opposed to paying for that if they will do the other service work as part of the deal. Seems like they might have some capacity in the service department in February in Colorado so it wouldn't really cost them much, especially if they have the better part of the week to do the work, but maybe not. I guess I can ask, all they can do is say no.

I would certainly give them the opportunity to match the price on the tires, but their website shows them at over $500 for the set, so they would need to come down quite a bit. Superstore lists some installers that they ship direct to who will install for $80, including taking the wheens off, so that seem like the way to go for under $400 all-in.

Yes, I probably should have just bought the bike and paid off a loan. But by that point I was a bit hostile, plus it was too late to do it and make a long standing dinner reservation my wife had made with a few other couples.

I guess I'll call them in the morning and see if there's still a deal to be made.

 

[garyahouse]

Potato:

First, a comment about the FJR's tendency to "turn in" at slow speeds. There is a cure. Check out the following post: CLICKY Turn in tendency: greatly reduced.

A comment about the dealer: I wouldn't deal with these guys. But it's a beautiful bike: it's your call. My opinion: they have not earned your business. Step back and take a breath. Any chance that FJR fever is affecting your better judgement? It's understandable: the FJR is a great machine. I don't think they're giving you their best deal. I've got a feeling that they're really killing you on the SV. And since you've already got a buyer for your SV... do yourself a favor, don't trade it. If there is ever a time in your life that you don't want to get in a hurry, it's right now. If you're like the rest of us, you work hard for every dime. Don't let a stealership take it from you. Listen to the forum. Their collective wisdom won't steer you wrong. There is a better deal out there. You'll get your FJR soon enough. If you must have it now, they've got cha by the throat and you will pay every dime to the same people in the same building you just stormed out of. And at the end of the day, they learn nothing about how to treat customers because they got what they wanted. Here's a prediction: they won't cut you a deal on service work. There's a standard charge and they won't bend. Just my guess, and just my opinion.

For what it's worth, whatever you choose to do, we're pullin' for ya.

Good luck: whatever you choose to do, you'll remember it for a LONG time.

Gary

darksider #44

ps: if you choose to get this bike and ask for fluid changes: forget engine oil and ask for brake and clutch fluid changes. Doing rear end gear lube and engine oil is a piece of cake. And don't worry about this kind of routine maintenance on the bike. The forum has an unbelievable amount of info about how to do these things and we'll walk ya through.

 

[BentAero]

I notice the FJR's turn-in tendency only 1) after I've been riding the SV or a dirt bike for a while and haven't been on the FJR at all, and 2) and/or after the FJR has had a couple thousand miles on the front tire.

It's perfectly normal, just a trait of the bike. The very first time I rode one it kinda freaked me out and I didn't like it at all. But now I only notice it as I'm pulling out of the neighborhood. Five minutes later the sensation is gone. FWIW, mine is a low-miles FJR, I'm only on my 10th front tire. I have a ways to go to get 'experience'.

Re: the dealership, despite the "what's it gonna take to put you on this bike today" games we all hate, I can see the dealers point about wanting to lock-up the sale. You were offering a deposit, which to them meant they had just sold a unit. You leave a deposit, sign the paperwork, and come back with the rest of the money on x-day to pick up the bike. Please don't be offended, but I think your best bet would have been to wait until the cash/bonus was IN HAND before approaching them. You would have been able to negotiate from a stronger bargaining position. Don't get emotionally married to this particular bike just yet. There's a whole lot more out there just like it. It's February in Colorado, you're not gonna ride it (big picture wise) yet anyway.

Keep in mind that big mega-dealers run their departments as separate profit centers. Sales, Parts & Acc., and Service are usually separate entities under the umbrella of the name on the door. Each manager is under tremendous pressure to 'perform', often very cut-throat from one department to another. Dealers HATE to install tires purchased elsewhere, many won't do it. As someone else suggested, better to ask them to price match an online seller, as that way at least they won't lose money.

Re: the SV sale and the Penske shock, be careful muddying the waters with the SV trade-in. It's easy for the dealer to confuse a buyer with a whole bunch of "I'll give you this, if you give me that, and then I'll do this for you". Before you know it, you just agreed to give away your SV. At $2800 they're not rippin' you off on the SV, but they aren't doing you any favors either. They have to leave some room to flip it and make a profit, so why not make the profit yourself? Put in on SVrider.com What year/mileage is it?

On the Penske, take the bike to a small independent repair shop that doesn't sell new bikes. They'll switch shocks for you.

Then you can sell it for $24.00, which is what a Penske is worth. (That's a joke, some of you will get it. Those who don't, come to EOM)

Ultimately it boils down to, can you put up with the dealers antics just to get the bike out the door? Will you ever go back to them for anything such as parts, routine service and or warranty work?

I had a fabulous buying experience with D&H cycle (as everyone has) but they are 350 miles away and I've never been back for anything service related.

Only you can decide.

 

[garyahouse]

Ultimately it boils down to, can you put up with the dealers antics just to get the bike out the door? Will you ever go back to them for anything such as parts, routine service and or warranty work?

I had a fabulous buying experience with D&H cycle (as everyone has) but they are 350 miles away and I've never been back for anything service related.

Only you can decide.

Gary

Your post said it all. Good stuff, dude.

Potato:

Consider this: check out D & H. On a nice day, you can ride it home. It's not that far on an FJR. The fairing is incredible in cooler weather.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Jetpilot5]

This deal would be way to messy for me. You had a good test ride and you know you want an FJR. If you want that specific bike, go back when you're ready to buy and quit screwing around with a deposit, or go with a loan. If you decide to trade, decide before hand what your willing to accept for trade value and what you're willing to pay for the FJR. Take all the service and tire work out of the deal, it just muddies the waters. If the FJR needs tires and you want the fluids changed, fine, tell them you'll give $8,000 instead of $8,500 for the bike so you have the money to pay for the work you want done after the purchase.

If you get the deal done, let them write you an estimate for the tires and service. Then if you want to see if they'll price match tires or come to some other arrangement (maybe 20% off your first service visit or something along those lines) you can do that after the purchase.

I bought my bike used from a dealer and also traded my old bike in the deal. Several phone calls to the same salesman to discuss it's history and condition, called the day before I was to drive up with my old bike just to make sure it hadn't sold (4 hour drive). Met them the next morning with my trade (ready to put on the showroom floor), inspected and test rode the FJR (condition as described), agreed on the trade value and FJR price, did the paperwork and was home that afternoon. I'm happy, they're happy, no drama.

Good luck, hope you get her (or another just like her) bought.

 

[Patriot]

definitely STOP & take a breath...

it's just a bucket of bolts with dozens of others just like it around

at this point, you like the bike...it qualifies for purchase

stay physically away from there...you can purchase anything over email which is a great unemotional communication with an occational phone call.

email them nada.com, and kellybluebook.com facts, make offers, find other similar bikes and email those internet ads and let them match...check ebay & craiglist within 150mi

decide on some price between trade in and retail, something above wholesale

let it go emotionally and go from there...

use us or some friend/family member who DOES NOT have the fever to broker the sale

I do that all the time for others

good you reached out to us

and venting is good...you showed appropriate frustration and did not get manipulated into signing anything

good for you

best to you

keep in touch

Mike

in Nawlins'

best to you

 

[Patriot]

edit: duh, double post

 

[garyahouse]

One last thought: you mentioned "less than 7 k miles." I assume you know this about the FJR: these things usually last forever. Many forum members have over 100k and some over 200k on theirs. Don't be blinded by low, low mileage. Don't let a salesman convince you that this is worth mucho extra $$.

By the way, hope you were listening to Patriot above. He knows what he's talking about. Hope we were able to help.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Pepperell]

Sell your old bike to your friend for something between wholesale and retail. Buy the new bike for the least amount you can. Forget tires/shock/oil. All that crap has beautiful pictorial how-to's online that a junior high kid can figure out, and that's about who would do it at the dealer anyhow.

Unfortunately, you should have done this on your first visit. Oh, by the way, you should have made an offer on the bike somewhere below where you want to be. If they don't hit your number early on, walk with a "call me if you change your mind" tag line. They'll call if your offer isn't totally out of touch with reality.

If they DO call, pack your sleeping bag and arrive about 10 minutes before closing time. Be ready to spend all night if necessary. If the place is closed on Sunday, do this on Saturday. Sales people HATE this, just as YOU hate getting ****** around. This ploy puts the pressure on them to get the deal done with slightly less screwing around.

The dealerships know that the longer the negotiating process goes on, the more likely you are to cave to their deal, so bring your ipad or a Russian novel for the interminable back room screwing around time till they cave to YOUR deal.

PS; I am a commissioned retail sales person; I deal with trade-ins and new and used sales. The sales manager's mantra is "Don't let any deal walk!!"